Voting on weed

[Gixxus Christ!]

Buildit, you need to understand something. legalizing it will not magically create smokers from non-smokers. Most studies show that use among teens goes down after decriminalization.

[Cheech]

I agree that people employed by the government spend money and put some of our own money back into the economy but I don't pay taxes so Gov. employees can stimulate the economy. I dont know about the rest of you guys, but I pay taxes so my friends and my family are safe from foreign and domestic enemies, so I can travel around this great country a little easier (roads, planes...), have people to help me in extreme emergencies, among other things. I absolutely do not want to pay more taxes so more of us have less freedom and a larger Government. I was stating that the Gov. has no basis for creating new jobs because they are not a company, so they should attempt (at a Federal level) to minimize increases in ANYTHING not absolutely essential, which inevitably increases the tax and financial burden on the general public to support it.

Hey man, whatever helps you sleep better at night. Willful ignorance is a terrible thing.

[Bad324]

being introduced to weed in college was the best thing for me. I learned to relax and not be stressed out. As a result my grades went UP and i became more productive when it came to school, I could actually sit there and listen to a lecture

I continued until last fall when I had a too close call with our random testing at work due to the BWC. I have since stopped due to said close call but its completely pointless for a person like me.

[cOoTeR]

I know a lot of people that smoke a lot of pot and their lives are not as good as they could be. One friend would smoke all the time then he just didn't give a shit and quit going to school because he'd rather get stoned all day. Now he lives with his mom and works for jiffey lube. Another friend went to college and blew through a trust fund getting stoned and drunk. Then he dropped out after being at a 2 year tech college for 4.5 years. Now he installs sports equipment for DICKS SPORTING GOODS. Another friend got kicked out of the National Guard for failing too many drug tests. Yes he failed several knowing that he was going to get kicked out. Not because he wanted out he just liked weed soo much and didn't give a shit. He lives with his grandma and works for his dads machine shop. He wishes he never got kicked out of the military but still smokes weed. All of these guys are about 26 yrs old and working jobs high schoolers can get.

[OsuMj]

^^ the hard part is distinguishing whether that is because of the weed, or if those people would have 'failed' anyway, and happen to be weed smokers. I'm sure that you can come up with as many success stories as failures. I know a guy who pulled a 4.0 in electrical engineering stoned off his ass ALL THE TIME. I also know a guy who lost his gf because he was 'busy' smoking weed all the time and he just sat on the couch all day. So, what facts do i have that weed caused either of these people to succeed or fail?

[RHill]

I know a lot of people that smoke a lot of pot and their lives are not as good as they could be. One friend would smoke all the time then he just didn't give a shit and quit going to school because he'd rather get stoned all day. Now he lives with his mom and works for jiffey lube. Another friend went to college and blew through a trust fund getting stoned and drunk. Then he dropped out after being at a 2 year tech college for 4.5 years. Now he installs sports equipment for DICKS SPORTING GOODS. Another friend got kicked out of the National Guard for failing too many drug tests. Yes he failed several knowing that he was going to get kicked out. Not because he wanted out he just liked weed soo much and didn't give a shit. He lives with his grandma and works for his dads machine shop. He wishes he never got kicked out of the military but still smokes weed. All of these guys are about 26 yrs old and working jobs high schoolers can get.

Bad decision making cannot be blamed on anything other than the person making the decision.

They are also all friends with you.....can we blame you for their bad choices as well?

I really like the last example; weed makes your life worse because the national guard tests for it and kicks you out for repeat violations.

[Scruit]

It's a question of cause, effect, coincidence or irrelevance. I know guys who smoked in college and they all went on to be successful. Is that because they were smoking weed? No, it's more likely they were successful because they all went to college. So is the weed a cause, an effect, a coincidence or an irrelevance?

I don't believe weed causes people to fail in life. I believe some people are destined to fail and weed is a scapegoat. People fail in life despite NOT smoking weed. If weed didn't exist would these people instead all be nobel prize winners?

[redbarron77]

if weed makes one fail in life, then spoons made me fat.

[magley64]

if weed makes one fail in life, then spoons made me fat.

false comparison my friend, both are inanimate objects for sure, but one has a direct effect on your brain chemistry, and (potentially) your decision making skills.

The other is just a tool.

Comparison works okay on other tools: guns, pencils, knives, screwdrivers, bulldozers, grenades, etc...

Not such a good comparison for mind altering substances.

Edited November 8, 2012 by magley64

[redbarron77]

false comparison my friend, both are inanimate objects for sure, but one has a direct effect on your brain chemistry, and (potentially) your decision making skills.

The other is just a tool.

Comparison works okay on other tools: guns, pencils, knives, screwdrivers, bulldozers, grenades, etc...

Not such a good comparison for mind altering substances.

sugar, caffeine, etc, all alter the body chemistry.

[ScubaCinci]

^^ the hard part is distinguishing whether that is because of the weed, or if those people would have 'failed' anyway, and happen to be weed smokers. I'm sure that you can come up with as many success stories as failures. I know a guy who pulled a 4.0 in electrical engineering stoned off his ass ALL THE TIME. I also know a guy who lost his gf because he was 'busy' smoking weed all the time and he just sat on the couch all day. So, what facts do i have that weed caused either of these people to succeed or fail?

Tru dat. If it weren't for weed, the same people would probably be doing the same, just substitute alcohol for weed.

[Bad324]

mind altering substances.

I never really liked this term when it came to marijuana. IMO doesn't apply the way it sounds. In my experience there were very few things I couldn't do at the same performance level as when I was sober. Could I be an anomaly? Probably, but I also know A LOT of people who dabble in a little "hangover medicine" as we call it and it is about a 50/50 split of people who function fine and succeed in life vs those who I feel wouldn't succeed anyway and use marijauna as their clutch

[bowdog]

Ok. New thread rule: If you've never smoked it' date=' stop telling me how bad/evil/wrong/terrible/useless it is.

You don't know shit. Stop talking.[/quote']

[cOoTeR]

My friend that got kicked out of the military will tell you he wishes he was still in but it came down to a choice weed or military. He choose weed. He was doing a lot better in life while in the National Guard. He had a good job that he also lost due to drug tests. A girlfriend and son that he lost due to not being responsible / able to support them.

Maybe because I don't like weed I can step back and honestly say I can see a lot more people that would be better off if they didn't smoke weed. I also see first hand how it gets into the country and the effect it has on the people of Mexico. It's still Federally illegal and I think the government needs to shit or get off the pot here soon. Either they need to embrace legalization or crackdown on the states making it legal.

Is weed worse than alcohol? I can't say but I do know you can make the research favor whatever side you want. Is it that those people would have screwed up their lives without weed. Maybe but I know more people that are unsuccessful in life that smoke than those that are unsuccessful and don't smoke. All the alcoholics I know that are unsuccessful also smoke. Does that mean everyone that smokes will fail no but I think it helps make it easier to fail and accept it. Would people be able to be more successful and smoke if it were legal? Probably but there are a lot of people that would rather lose their job instead of quitting weed. As long as the better paying employers drug test and punish for failure weed will keep certain people from bettering their lives.

[cOoTeR]

Ok. New thread rule: If you've never smoked it' date=' stop telling me how bad/evil/wrong/terrible/useless it is.

You don't know shit. Stop talking.[/quote']

Never said I never smoked it. Never smoked it a lot. So I guess I can continue or is this a stoners only thread?

[magley64]

sugar, caffeine, etc, all alter the body chemistry.

True, but spoons do not.

caffiene nicotine, etc do alter your state of mind, but to a lesser extent than alcohol, marijuana, ambien, topamax, nyquil... etc.

[RHill]

false comparison my friend, both are inanimate objects for sure, but one has a direct effect on your brain chemistry, and (potentially) your decision making skills.

The other is just a tool.

Comparison works okay on other tools: guns, pencils, knives, screwdrivers, bulldozers, grenades, etc...

Not such a good comparison for mind altering substances.

There are laws against paraphernalia which is equatable to a spoon

[magley64]

There are laws against paraphernalia which is equatable to a spoon

yeah... that's true...

separate issue, but should also be legal.

[Helmutt]

Marijuana becomes a psychological HABIT......Alcohol becomes a physical ADDICTION. Your body doesn't become dependent on THC to survive, whereas your body will become dependent on alcohol after enough abuse.

Case and point, this is the biggest difference of all between what's already legal, and what's being fought for. I would rather we compare alcohol to a mild heroine/methamphetamine/etc in it's ability to control habitual abuse. Weed is but a choice each time of use/abuse, no matter how many years it's been in our system.....it's never a MUST have. Alcohol isn't addictive overnight, but drink it daily for long enough and you'll not be able to stop without huge symptoms, not just getting a little pissy for a few days as weed would cause.

So, this country would rather legally allow a more harmful substance to be readily available instead of the lesser evil.......yet more typical BS from our control tower:nono:

Growing or buying for personal use should be completely legal so long as a state minimum/maximum allowance is followed. Tax it, treat it like alcohol and tobacco - simple stuff imo......why blow the easiest concept to shit because of some unknown chemicals that can't be broken down or identified? Hasn't stopped the FDA yet, they just won't put their approval on it......big deal, so start the market already......fuck sake......sometimes this government acts like a bunch OCD tweeked greedmongers scared to death that we'll get away with a few bucks behind their backs

[cOoTeR]

There are laws against paraphernalia which is equatable to a spoon

You can also get in trouble for possession of criminal tools. In the right persons hands they are the tools if their trade, locksmiths and tools for picking locks, contractors and demolition equipment, alarm installers and some of their tools, certain types of card readers. But possessing these things without reason can equal possession of criminal tools. It's not illegal due to what it is, its illegal because of its intended use. That's why you can but pipes and bongs and whatever else you choose but they are sold as intended for tobacco use only.

[Bad324]

My friend that got kicked out of the military will tell you he wishes he was still in but it came down to a choice weed or military. He choose weed. He was doing a lot better in life while in the National Guard. He had a good job that he also lost due to drug tests. A girlfriend and son that he lost due to not being responsible / able to support them.

Maybe because I don't like weed I can step back and honestly say I can see a lot more people that would be better off if they didn't smoke weed. I also see first hand how it gets into the country and the effect it has on the people of Mexico. It's still Federally illegal and I think the government needs to shit or get off the pot here soon. Either they need to embrace legalization or crackdown on the states making it legal.

Is weed worse than alcohol? I can't say but I do know you can make the research favor whatever side you want. Is it that those people would have screwed up their lives without weed. Maybe but I know more people that are unsuccessful in life that smoke than those that are unsuccessful and don't smoke. All the alcoholics I know that are unsuccessful also smoke. Does that mean everyone that smokes will fail no but I think it helps make it easier to fail and accept it. Would people be able to be more successful and smoke if it were legal? Probably but there are a lot of people that would rather lose their job instead of quitting weed. As long as the better paying employers drug test and punish for failure weed will keep certain people from bettering their lives.

I stopped reading after the 2nd sentence because I didn't care to continue without saying your buddy is a collosal moron for coming to the conclusion of weed over a future. That is entirely on him, not weed

[magley64]

Marijuana becomes a psychological HABIT......Alcohol becomes a physical ADDICTION. Your body doesn't become dependent on THC to survive, whereas your body will become dependent on alcohol after enough abuse.

sorry my friend, everyone has different physiology, some people do get addicted to marijuana, some people get addicted to alcohol, some people get addicted to nitrous, or meth, or nicotine...

saying one is always physical and one is always psychological is an oversimplification of addiction.

[redbarron77]

True, but spoons do not.

caffiene nicotine, etc do alter your state of mind, but to a lesser extent than alcohol, marijuana, ambien, topamax, nyquil... etc.

I will completely disagree on the topamax.

Having been prescribed topamax, it messed me up in ways that were not in the list of "possible side effects". The 9 months I was on topamax were a living hell....I was afraid to log into databases to work because I was afraid I'd screw it all to hell. My wife said it was like living with the village idiot(more so than normal), I couldn't make coherent sentences, and more than one person remarked that I was "out of it".

Nobody has EVER said that when I have been on "other" pharmaceuticals.

[cOoTeR]

I stopped reading after the 2nd sentence because I didn't care to continue without saying your buddy is a collosal moron for coming to the conclusion of weed over a future. That is entirely on him, not weed

True he's a dumbass but he choose weed. He wouldn't have gotten kicked out for alcohol. He could go a week with out alcohol easy and only drink on the weekends he didn't have drill but he smoked everyday. The habit he developed he couldnt kick even for a little bit while he was on his last chance with the military then his job.

[Helmutt]

sorry my friend, everyone has different physiology, some people do get addicted to marijuana, some people get addicted to alcohol, some people get addicted to nitrous, or meth, or nicotine...

saying one is always physical and one is always psychological is an oversimplification of addiction.

You could be right, however evidence of that would be circumstantial. Everyone is different, but I wasnt simplifying addiction by any means, only speaking statistically