confused about registration.

[snot]

So.. my brother bought a hand gun then traded at a dealer. Months later he receives a call because his gun was involved in a crime. Apparently the dealer still had it listed in his name.

I thought hand guns were not registered, i am confused. How could this be prevented?

[Scruit]

So.. my brother bought a hand gun then traded at a dealer. Months later he receives a call because his gun was involved in a crime. Apparently the dealer still had it listed in his name.

I thought hand guns were not registered, i am confused. How could this be prevented?

The manufacturer/distributor would have a record of which FFL it went to. The FFL would have an entry in his bound book listing the transfer if the firearm to him.

Did he keep paperwork for who he sold it to?

[jporter12]

I think this is why they're trying to stop individuals selling guns to each other.

[crb]

Dealer books are the only way to get to an individual owner. We don't have registration in Ohio.

[Scruit]

I think this is why they're trying to stop individuals selling guns to each other.

Well, not so much "stop" as "regulate". They're gonna push for FFLs to hand every transfer, and for that transfer to be entered into their bound book. They would then, with some legwork, be able to walk through the gun's history from it's original new sale, then ask that guy which FFL handled the transfer to the next owner, examine that FFL's bound book to get the name & address of the buyer, then repeat until they reach the person who currently owns it.

I've never sold a gun privately but I have bought a couple. Have done multiple copied of full name/address etc, and have done the simple exchange of cash and rifle without seeing IDs. It's all about what you're comfortable with.

To enforce the "FFL must handle sale" I'd expect them to put together a package of complementary rules like:

- All transfers must be through FFL, else it's a felony

- Any loss/theft of the gun must be reported to the police, and you'd better be able to produce a police report number (although the police would enter that into a database that the govt could search) Failure to report a lost or stolen gun would be a felony. This stops people selling a gun without going through an FFL and then later claiming it was stolen.

- If the gun becomes a non-gun (through destruction, or permanently being rendered inoperable) then that the gun must be certified by an FFL as permanently inoperable. Your and/or the FFL would keep that record and have to produce it upon request. Failure to have an inoperable gun certified as such would mean the gun still falls under the "all transfers must be through an FFL" rule, therefore transferring or disposing of the "inoperable" gun would be a felony. This stops people using the "It broke so I threw it away" or "It quit working so I sold it as a paperweight" excuses.

- If you manufacture a gun at home (80% lower, or 3d printed) then you must permanently affix/engrave/stamp/mold your name and address on it, and the words "NON-TRANSFERABLE". That gun could never legally be transferred anyway, so this would combat unregistered guns being built and illegally sold. The gun wouldn't be registered, but if found at the scene of a crime then they will come back to you. If the address is out of date then that's not a problem, because they could catch up with you anyway. Possession of a homebuilt gun that is not labelled correctly would be a felony. Possession of someone else's homebuilt gun would be a felony unless they were present at the time (buddy let you shoot it at the range). This would not be grandfathered - if you have a homebuilt rifle then you'd have 60 days to get it engraved/stamped.

OR

Create a new class of FFL of "home manufacturer" which would require only a NICS background check but would be shall-issue. This could be done at an FFL, and would be a rubberstamp deal, over the counter, 5 minutes. The FFL would send the completed form to the BATFE and they would keep your manufacturer ID and details on file. You would get an "Manufacturer ID" that you would have to stamp on any gun you make. Possession of a gun with no manufacturer ID (or a manufacturer ID that is not your own, unless they are there with you at the time) would be a felony. Same level of control as stamping your name and address, but more anonymous among the citizenry (like the license plate on a car)

I am not advocating any of this - just musing about what might be coming down the pike.

[snot]

He did trade at a dealer, I guess thats what made this really bad. I know i wont shop there now ( never did). He did keep the paper work.

Edited January 14, 2013 by snot

[imaposer]

He did trade at a deal, I guess thats what made this really bad. I know i wont shop there now ( never did). He did keep the paper work.

The dealer didn't do anything wrong. There is no registration like a car that the dealer should have updated. They were simply following the paper trail from the beginning. All they have to go on is which FFL the gun was sent from the manufacturer/importer to and who it was then sold to. Once they contacted him, and he told them where he traded it in, they would then go talk to that dealer and see where it was transferred to from there.

This is how it works.

[imaposer]

And how could it be prevented? Never sell a gun you have bought through an FFL. No other way to prevent it.

[Scruit]

And how could it be prevented? Never sell a gun you have bought through an FFL. No other way to prevent it.

You can't prevent the trace reaching you unless you buy from someone who does not get your details. The only difference that the person you *sell* to makes is if it is an FFL then you have proof of legal transfer and date, whereas if you sell it privately with no info then the BATFE are probably not going to be as quick to pass you by.

[Scruit]

He did trade at a deal, I guess thats what made this really bad. I know i wont shop there now ( never did). He did keep the paper work.

The FFL did nothing wrong. Any FFL who sold you the gun would do the same thing or lose their FFL status. They keep a list of guns that arrive and depart their business and they must give those records up by law when asked.

If you refuse to do business there after this then you are punishing them for doing nothing wrong.

[snot]

I see, well that being the case if they ever have what i want at the best price I will go there. Thanks for the info!!