If I were writing a new gun control bill...

[Casper]

If I were writing a new gun control bill, I'd include the following:

1. Background checks for all firearms sales. I figured I'd get this one out of the way first since it's going to piss off my fellow firearm brethren. I think the NICS e-check system should be open to the public. It does not return nor validate any personal information. It would not be a security risk to open this system to the public. There could be mobile apps even, so you could run a check right from your smart phone. This is an FBI database already paid for by taxpayer money. Let's open it up. Enforcement of this would be fairly impossible without a gun registry. I'm not okay with that. However, if it's found that you sold a firearm to someone without running the background check and they were not legally able to purchase said firearm, you should be charged. If they committed a crime with said firearm, you should be charged as an accomplice to the crime. I believe this would keep a lot of firearms out of the wrong hands.

2. Mental health records from any taxpayer funded databases included in NICS e-check. The common denominator in the majority of the mass shootings is diagnosed mental instability. This cannot be left up to a person to answer honestly on a questionnaire. Veteran records, Social Security records, public health records, etc should all be a part of NICS. All mental health records should be submitted to NICS, and left up to the FBI whether said records should keep someone from owning a firearm. I'd recommend a panel of judges or such. Should you be disallowed firearm ownership for being on anti-depressants? Not necessarily. Shit happens. Should you be disallowed for a history of depression and aggression? Oh yeah.

3. No more gun free zones. They don't work, and nobody can honestly argue this one. The vast majority of mass shootings in the United States have happened in gun free zones. They're as useless as drug free zones.

4. Training, training, training. We encourage pregnant couples to take pregnancy classes. We force teens to take driving classes. My employer encourages me to take training every year. To obtain a CCW permit, we require basic handgun training. We require hunters education training for obtaining a hunting license. Why do we not at least encourage training for the ownership/purchase of sporting rifles and handguns? Ignorance is not bliss when firearms are involved. I received my first official firearm training in Boy Scouts using a .22 bolt-action rifle. The sad reality is that alone put me leaps and bounds above a large number of firearm owners. Training should be much more prevalent and encouraged, and possibly even required to take your firearm out in public.

5. Military veterans and active duty, along with retired police officers, should immediately be able to obtain a CCW permit without additional training. Some states have this already. It should be across the board.

6. CCW reciprocity agreement with all CCW states. The reality is most states require the same training and background checks. These states should all honor each others' CCW permits. For instance, as an OHIO CCW holder, I cannot conceal carry in Georgia. However, if I pay the fee and drop off the application in Pennsylvania with no additional training or requirements, I can then conceal carry in Georgia using the Pennsylvania CCW permit. Does that make any sense? My drivers license is good in all 50 states even though different states have different age requirements, driving test requirements, etc. My CCW, which all states require the same age and basically the same training, should certainly be honored.

7. Mandatory death penalty for murder. Period. No more prison sentences with chances of parole. Death. You willingly, maliciously take the life of someone else, you lose yours. Whether you use your fists, a knife, a gun, or whatever, it doesn't matter. Murder is murder.

8. Stiffer penalties for crimes committed with firearms is idiotic. Make the penalties stiffer across the board. Whether you mug someone at gunpoint or with a ball-point pen doesn't really matter. The crime was the same, the penalty should be the same.

9. Mass shooting equals public hanging. Just as it says. Bring back public hangings for those who commit these heinous crimes.

I'm sure I'll come up with more. Please, give me your input and your suggestions. Gun owners, what would you be willing to concede in order to work together on logical, meaningful, useful gun legislation? What do you want to see? Gun opponents, what say you? Let's let this be a civil conversation.

[Tpoppa]

5. Military veterans and active duty, along with retired police officers, should immediately be able to obtain a CCW permit without additional training. Some states have this already. It should be across the board.

Military weapons training is 1000 times better than what is covered in a 1 day CCW class. While the hands on weapons part was pretty basic, I actually got something out of the CCW class.

I thought reviewing the relevant laws and discussing those type of scenarios was time well spent.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Tpoppa

[Scruit]

Put your flame suit on. I proposed exactly the same things on here (except the public hangings) and I'm still putting aloe on the burns.

[swingset]

Number 1 switches the burden of legality from the wrongdoer and criminal to the innocent person selling a legal and constitutionally protected object. Don't agree with that, at all. Private sales are no one's business. It won't stop anything, just make straw sales and thefts more common.

Number 2, well ok let's just have that. Now tell me what constitutes a mental health issue that should disbar someone from owning a gun. Depression? Anxiety? ADD?....yeah, that's not going to be a mess of lawsuits. Unintended consequence = fewer people seek treatment if they know they will lose their guns or never own one. More undiagnosed crazies instead of treated ones.

Number 4, I'm in favor of training and recommend it. But requiring it? Vermont doesn't even require permits (and I favor that). Are the streets running red with blood from negligence up there? Nope. Ok then, I don't think its the states job to mandate that either.

Number 5 is favoritism towards people who have received training that's not necessarily geared towards concealed carry and self-defense. In fact, I truly believe that my years of defensive training are superior to what an average infantry soldier receives. Projecting force with a rifle is a different skill set than CCW. Weapons handling and so forth, that's fine, but I don't think anything should put you to the front of the line for CCW. Also, what standardization is there going to be? Most government training on anything is sub-par at best. Seen the abysmal results of government-sanctioned driving lately? So, again, not in favor of that.

Number 7 I'm not a fan of either. Do you trust the justice system that much? Not me, no way. I'm absolutely certain innocent people have fried and hung, and as long as that's the case I don't favor death. Life in prison is fine, at least there's a chance of overturning bad sentences and trials.

Number 9 sounds good, except many mass killers already do, and will (if you have your way) just kill themselves. They want to go out in a blaze of glory...being hung or eating a bullet isn't a deterrent - it's the gory notoriety and a public hanging would worsen this, not help it. For them, it's about making everyone else understand their torment...the only solution to that is media silence which isn't gonna happen. Number 3 takes care of the mass shooting problem, by and large.

The rest I agree with.

Edited January 14, 2013 by swingset

[AWW$HEEET]

I like the manditory death penalty thing. It would kill 2 birds with 1 stone (no pun intended).

1. Achieve justice properly. Eye for an eye.

2. Not overcrowd our jails with killers. We don't need to be paying for these people to keep on living.

Sadly, it wouldn't happen. We as a nation are consumed with incarceration. There are people who should be locked up, but we are absolutely obsessed with it.

[Scruit]

The death penalty should be carried about using the Brazen Bull.

[madcat6183]

The death penalty should be carried about using the Brazen Bull.

Sounds kinky, is that foreplay or a finishing move

[swingset]

Here's my gun control idea:

Don't.

[Casper]

Remember, this is a give and take scenario meant to be a compromise between both sides. These aren't necessarily things I want, but things I'm willing to do. I am not willing to agree to any new weapons ban, registration, etc. However, I am willing to give in other areas in order to work together. That's the key here. Both sides of this debate need to work together instead of being steadfast in their opinions. New legislation is coming. Don't for a minute think it's not. It's imparative that we work together on this.

[scottb]

I just had a discussion with a friend who mentioned required training prior to purchase. If this is the case, who makes the rules for what is covered in this class? How long is the training?

The issue I have, while training is a good idea, I do not think it should be "required" for the " right to bear arms."

Some owners may take training on thier own and spend time at a range to improve skills. Depends on the person and how serious they take ownership.

[crb]

Remember, this is a give and take scenario meant to be a compromise between both sides. These aren't necessarily things I want, but things I'm willing to do. I am not willing to agree to any new weapons ban, registration, etc. However, I am willing to give in other areas in order to work together. That's the key here. Both sides of this debate need to work together instead of being steadfast in their opinions. New legislation is coming. Don't for a minute think it's not. It's imparative that we work together on this.

I would accept the nics check with the rest of your ideas. I like opening it up vs requiring you to have s dealer do it. Im not fond of the training' requirement

Edited January 14, 2013 by crb

[Scruit]

The thing about compromise, is that it's like walking down the no-mans land between the WW1 trenches... You think you're trying to bring people together, however in actuality you are just going to be shot at by both sides.

[Scruit]

I would accept the nics check with the rest of your ideas. I like opening it up vs requiring you to have s dealer do it.

If the FFL does it then the bound book provides a trace capability without registration. If it's open for people to use there is no trace possible and they'd push for registering the transactions (not the guns)...

[jbot]

here are the things i've thought of so far while agonizing over how to enact positive change without too overtly stepping on constitutional and privacy toes

First and foremost: education education education. widely available, free to take, easy to access but never mandatory as a requirement to gun ownership or CHL. web, in class sessions, print, whatever. education should range from the basics of gun safety. how to secure the gun, and what signs to look for in people in your household or anyone that visits your home regularly that may have mental illness symptoms that might lead to violence, possibly with your gun(s).

2nd: making NICS available for use for private sales, but not making it mandatory. to do a background check, you would need a randomized set of chunks and pieces of the buyer's info (part of a street name, part of a SSN, part of a birthday, etc). It would be as simple as going to a website, plugging in the info on the buyer that you would need from them. data would automatically be obliterated upon approval or after the set time period for "delay" responses.

3rd: incentives for people to buy a safe of some kind. this one hurts me in the financially conservative jimmies, but it could be tax credits, rebates, whatever. i think this could encourage people to buy and use the safe.

4th: anally gaping senator feinstein. no lube. no formalities. just plain hilt deep anal sinkhole action.

[AWW$HEEET]

i like the 4th item. gape her with a 15" dong affixed to a makita lipo powered sawzall.

[Pokey]

I have issues with most all of those ideas, but am 110% for frying/hanging/shooting/injecting.....all those whom are on "death row" and have a life sentence. Way too much tax payers dollars being spent on caged animals that will never be let out.

[swingset]

Remember, this is a give and take scenario meant to be a compromise between both sides. These aren't necessarily things I want, but things I'm willing to do. I am not willing to agree to any new weapons ban, registration, etc. However, I am willing to give in other areas in order to work together. That's the key here. Both sides of this debate need to work together instead of being steadfast in their opinions. New legislation is coming. Don't for a minute think it's not. It's imparative that we work together on this.

I disagree with this entirely too. We've been compromising since 1934, and it hasn't satisfied the gun-grabbers, nor have any of the compromises been effective at their intended goals.

And the other side isn't interested in compromise. They're solely and demonstrably interested in eroding gun ownership incrementally. This isn't hyperbole, they've admitted it and done it.

We need to be steadfast, because the 2nd amendment isn't ambiguous....and guns aren't the issue they're just the tools.

Look at Ohio, Ben, we've been gaining gun rights BACK instead of ceding them in the last 10 years. Are we worse off for it, or better? We're not compromising locally we've been on the offensive - and your plan is to give more stuff up to the Feds?

Fuck that.

[Tonik]

Put your flame suit on. I proposed exactly the same things on here (except the public hangings) and I'm still putting aloe on the burns.

I would suggest a mixture of Hydrogen Peroxide, rubbing alcohol and lemon juice with a touch of salt added for the burns. It will help way more than aloe, I promise.

[swingset]

Looks like the Republicans in New York just compromised with Cuomo and his merry band and everyone with a Garand, or an Enfield, or a 10/22, or a 10 round handgun is fucked.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Gun-Control-Assault-Weapons-Ban-Magazines-Limit-Cuomo-NY-186794151.html

How about let's not compromise until we're fighting just to keep our single-shots and stay off a watch list?

[Scruit]

I would suggest a mixture of Hydrogen Peroxide, rubbing alcohol and lemon juice with a touch of salt added for the burns. It will help way more than aloe, I promise.

I'm out of lemon juice. Can I use gasoline mixed with hand sanitizer?

[Tonik]

I'm out of lemon juice. Can I use gasoline mixed with hand sanitizer?

Yes, but the salt is a must have ingredient.

[Strictly Street]

No to everything.

Not one thing on that list would have stopped Newtown.

There is no need to punish the innocent for the actions of the guilty.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Only compromise I'll entertain is. They take back 34, 68, an 86. Ill give them a "little book" aka The Constitution.

[Tonik]

No to everything.

Not one thing on that list would have stopped Newtown.

There is no need to punish the innocent for the actions of the guilty.

The goal isn't to just stop Newtown. It is to lower gun crime overall. And no one is being punished by Caspers list. Just minor inconveniences.

Something has to change. We can quote convenient statistics and quote neat little sayings but the bottom line is gun violence in this country is statistically much higher than most civilized countries. Much higher. Yea you can find a few exceptions here and there but the norm is we shoot the fuck out of each other far more than most anywhere else.

[swingset]

The goal isn't to just stop Newtown. It is to lower gun crime overall. And no one is being punished by Caspers list. Just minor inconveniences.

Something has to change. We can quote convenient statistics and quote neat little sayings but the bottom line is gun violence in this country is statistically much higher than most civilized countries. Much higher. Yea you can find a few exceptions here and there but the norm is we shoot the fuck out of each other far more than most anywhere else.

So much fail. That's exactly the talk of the anti's, when they're trying to reasonably chip away...and we've been there and tried it. The bans and restrictions don't do anything, we've seen it again and again.

The violence problem is almost entirely dependent on culture. Years ago when our laws were more lax, access to guns almost entirely unrestricted, we had very very little gun crime. So you think more restriction is going to do something? Seriously?

That's not convenient statistics, it's the historical truth, a matter of record. And to vilify guns as the catalyst for violence or crime is single-minded and wrong, and why we're constantly chasing the wrong boogeyman.

Just for fun, factor out gang-and-drug related gun crime and you see that America is on par with most countries that have a tiny fraction of our gun ownership and drastically heavier restrictions. Doesn't that tell you something? It's not the guns, it's other factors and if you reduce gun crime at the expense of normal people's "convenience" (which is a highly subjective matter of opinion) you'll just shift it to something else (see Britain and knife/club/fist) violence and murder. Not that it will matter anyway, there are 280,000,000 guns out there. You can't put that horse back in the barn. All you are doing is going further towards prohibition which doesn't impact criminals just you and I....and creates a black market industry where there shouldn't be one anyway. Stop vilifying the fucking guns.

It's not the guns.

Look at Detroit, at Chicago, at Washington DC. For fuck's sake, if you can't figure something out about those areas and gun crime I worry for you.

Compromise is bullshit.