chevysoldier

mmmm...jack...

umm..... I leave that alone...

every war all over the blue planet has been over this"god"person. If he went away all we would fight about is females. FACT lol

Actually it has always been over religion, power or women.

Oil and money would fall under the power.

Add canned whipped cream to it too. > marshmellows

Those were awesome videos JRMiii.

I knew I liked you for a reason...

i hope your virgins are all men.

Partially correct I go into more later, but I'm getting the feeling you didn't actually read the entire thread.

Well that is what you had said, put simply. Right? Yes I have read the whole thing, but have been at work all day, jumping back and forth.

Once again the point is missed. It's not let me show you how to do it right, it's let me show you how to do this more safely so you don't die (or worse) before being able to quit. The whole context is seeking help, not making things worse and eventually quiting. It's not a since you're already doing it thing.

No it's not.

Okay you didn't say you help them do it safer to help them quit, you said help them do it safer until they quit.

You just don't get it, maybe it's beyond you.

But thats what you said.

here's what im saying:

1. the use of a drug, in and of itself, is a victimless crime.

2. if someone robs someone to get money for a drug, the ROBBING is the crime.

3. now i know you're gonna say "but the drugs made them do it"... if i get drunk and drive home and kill someone, did the alcohol make me do it?

The use of heroin is a crime, it is illegal. What about a pamphlet that teaches don't drink and drive, it's illegal but if you are going to, here's how to be safe about it. As long as you don't run over someone, it's a victimless crime right? How can u justify teaching someone how to do something that is ILLEGAL? And on top of it, deadly. If you want to teach someone how to safely shoot up, fine make it legal.

i dont think its so much "might as well be safe while doing a deadly drug", but its more "there are medically safer ways to inject".

Yes, the safest way it to not inject. But if you are going to do something illegal, let me show you how to be medically safer so you don't get HIV.

right....

educate them. you mean like abstinence only education?

im starting to feel that you are just trolling now.

there is no "prohibition" with slavery. there is a difference between "prohibition" and "abolition".

and secondly, as before, drug use and slavery/rape/murder/burglary whatever are incomparable.

if i shoot myself up with heroin in my living room, i have not hurt anyone except myself.

if i rape/enslave/murder/steal from/torture someone else, i am hurting someone other than myself.

So there aren't drug addict that murder and steal so they can continue to shoot up? I hope you also live alone and have no family.

But you also said, thats how it's always been done. How many things have always been done that we have figured out weren't right? Slavery was done for how long? We figured out it was wrong and got rid of it.

Damn right I'll teach my kid abstinance. Why should she run the risk of getting pregant or getting HIV? If you teach them before hand, and I mean you as a parent, not school, then the problem should not arise. If I teach her the problems about heroin, she won't use it. And maybe she won't learn and will make the mistakes. But I sure am not going to show here how to find a vein to teach her how to quit.

So let me get this straight.

Page 1. Don't shoot heroin. It is deadly and illegal.

Page 2. But if you are going to anyways, heres how to do it properly. You might as well be safe doing a deadly drug.

Ends never justify means. To be wrong in the first place does not make you right in the second.

...and once again I'll tell you it's not about teaching them to do it correctly. Until you understand that you won't understand the role it plays in recovery.

So you would help them do it correctly to help them quit.

Actually sometimes the ends do justify the means. The problem using a term like that is it doesn't always apply. In this case there's a bigger picture which you apparently cant grasp.

No they don't. I'll ask again, if you found your kids, parents, wife, whatever shooting up, would you try to get them off or teach them how to do it correctly?

who is we? i dont pay tax in NYC, so it wasn't my money... do you?

is it "morally and ethically" right for the government to tell me what i can and can not put in my body?

IMO this is just like giving out condoms at high school instead of teaching abstinence only. everyone knows abstinence only does not work. we all know drug prohibition doesnt work either. people are going to use whether its legal or not. people have been doing heroin for hundreds of years, and will probably continue to do it for hundreds more.

you are right though, probably not everyone who reads the pamphlet will follow it, but IMO if half of them do, then it wasn't a waste. its a good start.

RE: equating heroin use with rape (why not make a pamphlet for rapists)... come on get real. they are not even in the same ballpark. not even the same leauge. shit, they arent even the same sport! you are comparing apples and chickens here.

i think another point that many are missing, is that drug addiction is NOT a criminal problem. its a medical one. addiction is a disease, and needs to be treated as such.

No you and I dont pay NY taxes, but then that mentality spreads to OH and across the US. Think of court case. A v. B in NY was found such and such, so that should apply here in CA.

As for doing for hundreds of years, just because thats the way it has been done doesn't mean it's right. How long was slavery around? Did making it illegal fix the problem or should we have regulated it to collect tax money?

And when your drug addiction can lead to murders and burglary, rape isn't that far off base. Why not tell them to use condoms and to be gentle on breaking the door down? So drug addictions, especially herion is a criminal problem.

say you find your kid having sex. are you going to tell them about condoms and whatnot, or are you just going to say "dont do that anymore" and hope for the best?

nice straw man argument.

i didnt say legalize everything, i said prohibition doesnt work. it doesnt. that is beyond dispute. it didnt work in the 30's with booze, and it doesnt work today with drugs.

i think its silly for pot to be illegal, with as much money as we could make off of taxing it, why not? we tax cigarettes and alcohol, and regulate them too.

should heroin be legal? probably not. although, we do have methadone clinics where you get a regulated dose legally...

like i said before, people are going to use whether legal or not, so it does not seem like a terrible idea to me to try to make sure the people who are going to use are doing it safely.

No I would not hand my kid condoms. Condoms arent 100% protection. Would you teach your kid how to shoot up properly or get them to quit??

You don't just hope for the best. You educate so the problem doesn't arise.

what about Prohibition with slavery? again should we have kept that around and gotten tax money?

No. Like I said it's ~1 page out of 10, it's about context. They have a large problem with heroine related illnesses/death and are trying to alleviate that. I don't care for the delivery of that page but in context it's not that bad.

The ends do not justify the means. Say you find out your kids are shooting up. Are you going to tell them how to do it correctly in order to get them to quit??

You can make that claim about anything. Love the caps though, nice touch.

If you didn't do such and such in the first place then such and such wouldn't be needed/happening..legal or illegal. Glad you live in a black and white world where most don't.

Thats right, if you didn't shoot heroin, you don't have a chance to die from shooting heroin. Regardless, illegal is illegal. People that use it, know this. So why would you want to help them facilitate an illegal and deadly practice? Let's just keep catering to the idiots out there. This is why our country is so screwed up now. I suppose you also agree with kids being able to buy better grades in NC then to? That's not much different in the big picture. Let's not make them learn, that wouldnt be fair to flunk them if they didn't learn.

Because the other issues can hinder quiting...or worse.

Like not knowing how to find a good vein can hinder quitting? Knowing how to find a good vein could lead them to shoot up more and OD? Death?

What part of "prohibition does not work" is not understood?

So let's legalize everything? Pot, murder, rape, DVD pirating?

Who wants VIOP when theres MagicJack ?

Are you serious or just kidding? I have heard a lot of negative stuff about that thing.

"In the god(s) of your choice, we trust. We also trust in the lack thereof"

The point was merely taking a single page out of context of the whole pamphlet.

Sex is legal and there are already pamphlets on safer sex.

Yes, sex whithin certain guidlines is legal, rape is not. So you agree with my last post then?

It's not a how to from scratch guide. It's a please do it safer guide in an attempt to lessen issues they commonly see with heroine users. The guide also encourages seeking help to quit, but I guess we can continue to concentrate on this one page.

That's like reading one page from a self defense shooting manual that depicts the best placement for shots and claiming it encourages shooting or killing people.

Self defense isn't illegal . If shooting heroin was legal, I wouldn't care about the pamphlet. But to spend our money on something that tells how to safely do something illegal is not right. What if you printed a pamphlet on rape. Sure it's illegal and it states that, but then continues to talk about how to make it less traumatic and hurtful for the person being raped, would that be right? And be sure to use a condom so you don't catch HIV or get her pregant...?

I don't think they are condoning it. I don't read it that way. You only see a single page out of ~10 in that article.

If someone is going to use they are going to use and they certainly don't need a pamphlet to learn how to do it. They are going to learn/start from a dealer or other user.

So if a previous page stated "It is illegal but just in case you didn't know how to..." then it would be ok?

That's a bit of a leap. It's still illegal and I'm guessing there is more to the pamphlets, I'm too lazy to look at the moment. I will say they are a bit to simple or cartoonish in their delivery.

Which part is the leap. The fact they are condoning illegal activty, or extending the generosity to other criminals?

Reports say terrorist training now requires suicide bombers to practice until the activity is perfected.

I think you missed the point on both accounts.

People do all sorts of stupid stuff, it's the reason abstinence only education doesn't work. The point is in saying if you are going to at least do or don't do this, this or that.

Distraction of having to treat additional issues such as AIDS, infections, and whatever nastiness. Also, helping reduce the risk of passing said nasties to others. Needles users can look just like everyone else.

There is a reason a slippery slope argument is considered a logical fallacy btw.

Okay, let me say this then. By publishing this, you are condoning illegal activity. We might as well help out drug lord, robbers, rapist, child molesters, murderers, DVD & music pirating. where's it stop?

Howdy.

Thanks V4junkie, your vote(s) were very helpful hahaha.

Anyways I am going with, drumroll please,.........eggshell black. Thanks to everone's help. I will post up when it is finally done. Hope it turn out well.

Attackpainter, I'll probably be PM'ing you later to get some specifics figured out if you don't mind.

Visitation/Services

Given-Dawson Funeral Home

186 Park Avenue

Coshocton, Ohio 43812

07 January 2010@ 1300 hrs-(1:PM)

Services start @1400 hrs-(2PM)

Staging:

Given- Dawson Funeral Home

07 January 2010@1200hrs-(12:00AM)

Interment:

Coshocton County Memory Gardens

25580 Ohio 621

Coshocton, Ohio 43812

Following the Services

District #6 Ride Captain Tammy Mathew is assigned this mission of Honor and Respect. Please follow her instructions and remember to bring your 3x5 American Flags. Dress per the weather conditions . Please if the weather even looks as if riding a motorcycle to the mission will be dangerous , error on the side of caution and drive your car or Truck and car pool to the cemetery.

Bob Woods

Ohio State Captain

Patriot Guard Riders

Eeewwww.. I didn't realize the upload was soo bad there! I knew the download was slow though. Of course, if anyone's USING the connection, the test isn't accurate, such as streaming music like we all do there....

And we are always streaming music and doing a bunch of other stuff.