Bubba

As promised, I'm following up on the class results...post-exam. Everybody passed. As for range proficiency, all but two were fairly accurate with most of the shots--prolly 90-95%--in the COM at 5 yds and a couple folks (two young guys with youth, quick reflexes and good eyesight on their side) were within a 1-3" diameter circle. So accuracy isn't a problem, at least in a low-stress controlled environment. The initial intent of my post certainly wasn't to initiate an escalating war-of-words that cover such diverse topics as 2nd Amendment Rights, religion, abortion, voter fraud or any other hot button issues. I'll wait until the winter weather hits for that....

Yup. I'm aware of that now...wish I'd known. Not clear why they get an extra $60-65 more than the 3-hr Basic Handgun class for the CCL class except a certificate to show the Sheriff's office. Maybe it was a more comprehensive course when it was the 12-hour format. There was zero coverage of any law info in my class. Obviously, I plan on doing my homework. Hope the rest of the class does as well....

jbot: Not gonna happen. The internet is the "New Frontier"....kind'a like Dogde City in the early 1800s. Done. Sorry.

Dude, you are one seriously excitable fella. I'm not "making shit up"....merely voicing concern based on my experience. Mea culpa. Or as Emily Litella would say, "Oh, that's very different....nevermind."

Some additional points of clarification for discussion: I have already taken classes on Introduction to Handgun Safety and Basic Handgun Training. Pretty much right straight out of the "NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting" handbook. What I THOUGHT I was gonna get as far as training in my CCL class was 1) a basic education with regard to state law of the legalities of concealed carry in Ohio as well as at least a basic overview of CCL laws in other states; 2) at least a very brief and basic training on different styles and techniques of holster carry, safe ways to unholster and reholster my weapon; 3) at least some overview of the responsibilities and obligations that go with the right to hold a CCL. None of that was covered in any way. Ideally, for a new gun user like me, some very basic training to a simulated threat scenario would be even more helpful to help develop the mental processes for thoughtful and appropriate reaction to a threat. The reason I say this is that I don't have a military background--as I presume many of the gun rights advocates on OhioRiders have--and based on the minimal level of training received thru this class, I'm honestly not sure I will feel 100% comfortable about carrying, which tells me that I probably shouldn't. I know there are academies that offer more advanced self-defense courses and I may avail myself of these, but that doesn't solve the bigger issue of under-qualified and under-trained handgun users carrying in public. Thoughts?

Tonik: Maybe you misunderstood my initial post. I'm not advocating against CCL issuance, nor against freedom of individual gun ownership. I'm merely stating that--as someone who considers himself pretty much a rank beginner as far as handgun experience--my one year of ownership and minimal classroom training and range practice made me look like the Sundance Kid as far as skills were concerned. That should concern even the most ardent gun rights advocate.

I haven't taken the range exam yet, but it was described last night as having to put a minimum of 8-9 of 10 rounds into a full size torso target at distances of 3 and 5 yds, so a total of 20 rounds toward the target. Even a rank newb should be able pass that with their eyes closed. I realize that's supposed to mimic the most likely threat scenario in an encounter, but really... Not gonna go anywhere near the abortion/religion button on a motorcycle forum, but my feeling is that CCL will become somewhat akin to the problem we all face as road users: that the state requires such minimal level of training and competency as far skills/knowledge/awareness for issuance of a driver's license, the "stupid quotient" behind the wheel of an automobile is increasing at an almost exponential rate. Apply that same scenario to CCL and you can see where I'm going. I sincerely hope I'm wrong!!! We can only hope this is the case.

Tonik: Point taken. However, I'll be very surprised if the class doesn't have 100% pass rate. Tonight is the written final exam and range test. If I find out the pass-fail rate, I'll post up tomorrow.

Magz: That was kind'a my point. As I stated, I'm a relative newb when it comes to handguns, so when I decided to buy one, I did a lot of research online on what handgun would be appropriate for my use, what was reliable, what was easy to maintain. Watched "How to" videos to learn the basics of handling, use, cleaning. That was before I even walked into a store to look at models and price. I've taken several basic handgun classes and shot 400-500 rounds thru at least 3 different caliber SAs just to get proficient with handling, aiming, safety. When I decided to go for my CCL, I assumed the class would be made up of very experienced shooters with a real need for self-protection based on occupation or other critical need. WRONG!!! The great majority of attendees were complete newbs, half of whom neither currently own a gun (they had to pass out 5 of those cute orange "dummy" pistols for training) and the ones who had purchased have NEVER FIRED their handguns that they recently purchased! The most basic concepts--how to load a round into the chamber, how to determine if the gun is in the RTF state, keeping the muzzle pointed down-range, keeping the trigger finger out of the trigger guard until target acquisition, clearing the chamber after dropping the magazine--were all totally unpracticed skills. It's as if the only reason they're getting their CCL is for "fun"....and they'll be walking among us with loaded SAs.

Man, I'm thinking that we might want to step up the training process for OH CCL to be more rigorous again. I'm not ever gonna claim to be a tournament marksman, nor will I ever be anything that remotely resembles a spec ops-grade shooter, but some of the people in my class tonight were TOTALLY CLUELESS when it came to understanding even the most fundamental basics of firearm safety and use. After listening to and watching the lack of knowledge and experience among the participants, I'm not even sure I'll feel safe tomorrow night during the range testing. The thought that they could be walking/driving around in public carrying a SA within the next couple of weeks makes me want to stay home and lock my doors. Of the 12 people in the class, I'm not sure I'd trust more than 3-4 of 'em with anything more deadly than an air soft pistol. Instructor is ex-Marine, retired LEO with many years in RENU (narcotics), and if I was him, I'd wave my hands and cry "Uncle!" rather than graduate more than half these folks. If this is the norm for the average CCL holder, shit is gonna start to get wonky REAL QUICK!!!

No pics, unfortunately. But as someone who hauled MX bikes all over the Midwest in either a pickup or on a trailer, I can offer the advice that what is MORE IMPORTANT is the placement of the tie down in the hauling vehicle vs where its attached to the bike. For both MX and street bikes--with or without fairing--I use the short soft tie loops wrapped around the bottom triple clamp in front and a secure point on the frame at the rear. Use four MC tie-down straps (not ratchet straps!) to sturdy mounts on the vehicle, preferably at as close to a 30-45* angle from the bike as the mount point will allow. Straps that are nearly vertical don't control the side-to-side sway of the bike as well. Obviously, its way more crucial to get secure tie downs on a 900# cruiser than it is a 225# MX bike. For even more secure tie down, you can make a custom block out of wood and place it between the fender/wheel and the triple clamp to take some of the pressure off the fork seals and to minimize rocking. The danger in doing this is that if the block slips out, your straps won't have much tension on them and the bike can break loose! Tying down this way is predicated on 1) having a fairly large and handy hauler like a truck or trailer that has either factory/OEM or aftermarket mounting points that are securely installed, and 2) hauling a single bike. When you start hauling 2 or more bikes in an 8' pickup bed, you're not gonna have ideal tie down options. I hauled 3 DS bikes to CO and back several years ago in a 7x12 tandem box trailer with factory D-rings and wheel chocks and it worked great....but was just barely big enough.

Wha...??? Nearly 2 years to the day! Talk about a lightning strike out of the blue. I thought forum protocol stated that zombie threads could only be revived by forum newbs, not the OP....

Umm...the sport bike rider looks scary and menacing, while squid-boy is definitely calm and kewl??? I dunno...I give up.

Very cool pics! Your doggies look like they just MIGHT be enjoyin' CO....

Were they of Chinese origin? I bought a high-end Haulmark box trailer several years ago that was equipped with crap Chinese tires. Rating on the sidewalls was plenty for the application, were only 3 years old with less than 5000 miles of wear, and kept tire covers on them to minimize UV exposure. Used it to haul 3 dirt bikes and gear to CO for a 3 week trip. Tandem 3500# axles, MT weight of 2350#, and certainly less than 2000# of bikes and gear, so WAY under the GAWR. On the way home, two of the tires experienced cord separations....didn't delam like yours but the tires were so out of round that the trailer bounced the back end of the truck at speeds over 50 MPH. I replaced all 4 with US brand and kept one of the Chinese tires as a spare. Also went thru the hubs at the same time and replaced the Chinese tapered roller bearings with Timken for peace of mind.

Woof!!! That's creepy as fuck. Initial design phase of SkyNet?

New OR format means the EDIT button disappears 2 min or thereabouts after posting. Not sure, but I think you have to give Casper money to get EDIT privileges... Simply means you must be 100% flawless in your post execution!!!

Things that make you go "Hmmm..." Does this really fall into the Tools-for-Back-to-School category?

Ah, now I can vote....

I hate this poll.

Not sure how well that'd work. Most snow blowers use skids on the auger housing to set height, so gravel would play hell with that.

Lots of trees and trimming says ZTR over tractor, hands down!!! Whether you buy the owner's or find one on CL/Ebay is a wash. Big depreciation on lawn equipment, so if his unit is in decent shape, I'd start maybe 50% of retail...my top offer would be $4000ish. If he's selling to buy another property, he can take it with him; if he's buying a condo and getting out of the grass cutting mode, he'd be better off selling it to you. He won't be too likely to get more for a 2 yo mower selling it on the open market, and you've got nothing to lose if he says "No!" The walk-behind blower is a cheap and easy way to get rid of snow without having to store large seasonal yard items. Definitely my vote!!! That being said, if you plan on needing more heavy duty yard tools like a front loader, tiller, etc, then a tractor becomes a more viable option.

BTW, I want to state up front that I'm in no way demeaning real estate agents. They work hard for their commission and are generally honest. Obviously, it's in the agent's best interest to bring the deal to a close, and that may not happen if both parties aren't satisfied.

CBB: It's a little confusing. In southern OH, a typical commission for sale of a home is 6-7%. [Note that there are some discount realty firms that charge less--maybe 4% or so--but they are not full-service realty firms.] The commission split is normally: 3-3.5% goes to the listing realty company, the remainder to the listing/selling agent(s). So, even if you arrange the sale with your own agent to help you buy a house, his allegiance is still with the seller. Obviously, if the listing agent is also the selling agent, he gets the entire commission. I'm no expert, but I would guess that you could write a contract stating that you (the buyer) would pay the portion of your agent's commission out-of-pocket and the seller would then realize a savings of a portion of his contract commission, which could be split between buyer and seller. That way, your agent would be legally bound to represent your interests. Finding an agent that comes recommended from a friend would also be preferable, as most agent's build a strong business via referrals....which obviously isn't gonna happen if the seller or buyer end up feeling screwed. This area of the country is one of few in the US that has some very odd "customs" when if comes to selling/buying a home. For instance, it's very common, at least in the southern OH region, for the seller to expect 'free' occupancy for 15-30 days post-closing and is often written into the sellers contract, but almost nowhere else in the country is this done. I think the expectation is slowly dying out, but it's one of the odd regional practices.

Mary and Doc: Don't think this is correct. If you pick a second agent who will do the negotiating for you, he/she is still being paid for by the seller, i.e., the agent is legally bound to work for the seller's best interest. If the BUYER enters into a contract with a realtor/agent--NOT the listing agent--and is paying the fee out of their own pocket, then they're most definitely working for you.