This is what I was getting at. And most of you guys comparing times at PIRC to the cars, remember this. You guys race, most of these guys are just at a trackday. If you want to compare apples to apples, maybe try looking at times the average trackday Intermediate sportbike rider is running. I doubt you'll see many 1000's doing 1:08's. Then compare some lap times to those that actually race their cars. I didn't look at PIRC, but I know times for cars at Nelson are as low as :58, with tons of cars in the 1:01-1:05 range. But yes, they probably spent a lot more money to go that fast.