Hwilli1647545487

 

Because murica, and freedom, and apparently regardless of weapon(s) used, the same amount of damage will be inflicted, so who cares.

You're trolling now right?

the dog and car things are just deflections....like saying heart disease kills millions so lets ban food. The same arguments being used here for the assault type rifles can also be used against them. If this guy could kill just as many with a muzzle loader, shotgun, or a pistol as he did with a rifle then couldn't you defend your home equally as well with either? I'm all for gun rights and all for people owning guns. I don't think the regular joe schmo should be able to own ANY gun. There are people I wouldn't let own a kitchen knife if it was possible because they're far too stupid to make the common sense decisions needed to operate a knife. That type of person has no business owning any weapon they choose. We have to figure out a way to weed those people out. Banning guns isn't the answer but just letting idiots walk into a store and buy any weapon they want isn't necessarily the answer either.

You are completely missing my point. I'll try and be more clear.

1. Banning guns won't stop violence.

2. Guns are a tool that while can be used for evil, also can be and are used for "good". Just like cars and dogs can be dangerous, they also have very positive uses.

3. My point about the orlando killer being able to use a muzzle loader had nothing to do wth the gun and everything to do with the actions and mentality of his victims. The point I was trying to make was that you can fight back even if they have a gun. You have to be responsible for yourself. So with that, no I can't defend my home as well with a muzzleloader. If I am in a fight for my life I want the best chances for survival. I want the best tools available. I'll use what I have, but given the choice I want the best option available.

I agree with you that not everyone should be able to buy a gun, or a car, or have children... But I don't have the right to tell anyone else how to live their life. That is one of the dangers of living in a free society. There are risks. I personally prefer those know risks to the lie of someone telling me they can make me safe (they can't) if I just give up all my rights.

Again typed from my phone in a hurry apologize for spelling/grammar #fuckautocorrect

I'm not emotional. I honestly don't care if AR's are legal or not. I like debate all sides of issues on various topics. AR's can remain as legal as they are now, and I won't lose a bit of sleep about it.

 

As for the US remaining as it does now, that certainly will not happen.

 

As for dogs, I certainly believe there are some breeds that the average person should not be allowed to own without some kind of education and licensing.

The emotional statement wasn't necessarily directed at you. Just an a general observation I made.

Also an interesting figure (which I admit I didn't fact check) i searched on a whim.

"Each year, more than 350,000 dog bite victims are seen in emergency rooms, and approximately 850,000 victims receive medical attention. Data that the CDC collected in the USA between 2001 and 2003 indicated there were 4.5 million dog bite victims per year, but that figure appears to be rising."

Kind of crazy.

A better response may have been to elaborate on the need for the average citizen to have access to said weapon.

 

I think I should be able to buy rpg's at vances because 2nd ammendment.

Your viewpoint seems to structured around the idea that the United States will continue to exist as it does today, for all time. Why does the average citizen need access to these types of weapons? Because it is the best tool available to them for use in self defense.

Let's say something like the Ferguson riots break out, or the LA riots, or whatever. An angry mob wants to come in and rape your daughter, or hell even you. Would you rather have a rifle with a 30 round mag, or a shotgun with 5 rounds.

Tim already touched on this, but you are so concerned with the potential of a tool being misused that you fail to see that that some tool has the potential to save lives.

While there are not really an accurate count on how many times a gun is used to stop violent crime in the United States, I have seen figures as low as 65,000 up to 2 million (which I don't personally believe). For arguments sake lets go even more on the conservative side, let's say 20k uses, or hell 10k uses. That is even more conservative than the lowest estimates I have seen anywhere, and that would still be more than the number of murders via gun.

I'll phrase this another way. I was bitten by a dog once. So now all dogs scare me because all dogs have teeth and have the potential to hurt me. Dogs don't server any particular purpose in my life, so we should kill all dogs. Pretty stupid right?

Funny side note. My girlfriend was debating with one of her high school friends on FB about this topic and he said "I don't really care about your facts, they aren't going to change how I feel about this".

For those on the pro gun side, that is a fairly prevalent viewpoint from what I have seen. It's pretty useless to debate this it seems (and yet here I am LOL) when people can't put emotional content aside and use logic.

What's silly is us thinking that banning a series of long guns is going to do anything to a terrorist, domestic or otherwise, when it comes to them reaping terror on the masses.

 

I'm personally surprised we've not seen more/any suicide bombers like what we see over seas. Just a matter of time.

 

Once that happens are we going to ban vests ?

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Id rather be involved in a mass shooting rather than what happened at the Boston marathon. At least then I could have a fighting chance. As I said though neither are very statistically likely.

If that's the case, natural selection. You want to crouch forever when you have an opportunity to escape, I dunno what else to say there. Based on that, he probably could have killed the same amount of people with a hammer and a pencil.

 

But do you honestly think that if you were to put 100 people in a room 100 times, more often than not the same amount of people would be injured/killed with 2 shotguns that hold 5 rounds each and as much ammo as he could carry on his person, as there would be if you were to run the same scenarios but with one AR-15 and as many 30 round mags as he could carry on his person? Not trying to be combative or troll, but that honestly just seems silly to me...

I'm at work so I don't have time for a lengthy reply, but did you listen to the victim accounts? They all crushed together into a bathroom stall. They didn't bar the door. When the gunman came in he shot through the door. They begin pleading for their lives. He laughed and stick the Glock over the top and started firing down inside. No one attempted to stop him.

In this case, he could have used a single shot muzzle loader and killed 50 people in 2 hours because they did NOTHING to try and stop him.

Posted from my phone so I'm not going back and editing all then grammar/spelling I already see.

just trying to prove what a stupid quote the former (in the video) is with an equally stupid quote. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" makes for a dandy T-shirt but the more it gets repeated when a mass shooting happens, the less reasonable debate about how to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people occurs.

Not so stupid if you dispute that just by placing a gun in your hands, you don't automatically become a crazed killer.

I'm also amazed that when this type of event occurs we immediately make it about guns. I even asked a person here on CR what was more important, that they were killed or if they were killed with guns. He said that they were killed, so I asked him whats the best way to stop the violence, and he said "restrict guns". *Mind Blown*

What is the problem we are trying to solve? Are we trying to stop violence, or specifically gun violence? If gun violence, then we do we immediately go after a specific subset of rifles? Especially when rifles as a whole accounts for so few deaths per year... let alone that gun related murders are also extremely low when compared to other causes of death?

If our goal is to safe lives, then I would argue we could safe a lot more lives by focusing our resources elsewhere.

Concerning your desire to keep the guns out of the hands of bad people. I've got some bad news for you. You can't. If someone wants something, and they want it bad enough, they will get it. If for some odd reason they cannot get a firearm, and they want to still kill, they will do it. End of story.

Now for some good news. Violent crime has been on a steady decline for decades now. Your odds of being a victim are extremely low. Your odds of being killed by an "assault rifle" are astronomically low. As it has been stated already in this thread. The media strikes up the fear because it generates interest/clicks which equals money for them, or if you wish the left is pushing their agenda to help them push gun control for more sinister reasons. Either way it's bullshit.

How many people would have died at Pulse if the guy only had access to shotguns that hold 5 rounds? 10? 15?

From reading/listening to the after action reports of the victims, many just went and hid in bathroom stalls, and made no attempt to fight back. With a 2 hour police response time, he had all the time in the world with whatever tool he had on hand.

Which comes to my next point. If you ever find find yourself in this situation, and you can't get out. Do NOT put yourself at the mercy of someone like this. They cannot be reasoned with, and have no empathy for your situation. The was 100 + people vs one guy. The casualties could have been much less if ONE person would have broken the "victim trance" and attacked. Hell I read that people crouched in the hallway of the back exit until one of the bouncers jumped over them and got them moving out the door....

You are responsible for yourself. No one is going to do it for you.

But again as I said before, the odds of this happening are low...very very low.

-H

On the other hand, if I was standing there pulling my trigger finger in the air with no gun in my hand, I wouldn't kill people.

 

Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people.

So if I put a gun in your hand you would lose all morality and immediately start killing people?

Good to know.

I'm still at a loss why we feel the need to differentiate gun violence vs violence. Would it make you feel better to be stabbed to death.

Your last though as you bleed out "at least he didn't use an evil gun on me, that would have made me feel horrible"

I was back at my truck and wasn't right there when it happened. I've also never experienced something like this before so everything seemed to move well.

 

I wouldn't expect a faster response on any other part of that range. Regardless the incident got me wanting to be in the know if something like this ever happens again. I can assume we're not the only ones that were there wanting to update our knowledge on an event like this.

Thanks for saying Hi BTW

Also look at Dark Angel, they have courses all over the US.

 

http://darkangelmedical.com/training/

I took this class and it was great, but being right there when everything happened I can tell you that shit does you know good unless you can keep it up to date. I had forgotten a lot of what I was taught especially for something like a chest wound.

I disagree with your initial evaluation. It felt like it took forever to get someone to step up and start working on the guy. I ended up just grabbing supplies as people asked for them after they started working.

I'm looking into updating my training as well.

I'd like to take you up on it if they weren't the same day as uspsa.

 

You ever go shoot the match early? I know he let's people shoot it a day before.

What's your last name/what division do you run?

Derek and I have already talked. for just mounting one set of tires, it didn't seem to work for cost. But, when he did 4 sets for me, it was worth it.

Don't argue with me.

That sucks, So I take it the car will not be ready for trails tomorrow?

 

made a lot of progress though.

Not sure if serious or trolling.....

I've posted this before but the simple tactics this guy talks about will greatly increase your survivability should you find yourself in this type of situation.

Fucking lame. I'm going backpacking there this weekend with the girl and her two lady friends.

-Marc

Thanks for the invite. #unfriend