Draco-REX

Looks like I'll be an instructor at this event. I apologize in advance. I think 8 right now.

It looks like GM wants to copy the 1 series. I don't think Toyobaru or Mazda have anything to worry about. There's more to making a car like this than just making it small and RWD. If they were to make it like a baby 'vette I'd be more hopeful. But the shape of the car looks like the usual high-cg build you see today, which tells me they probably won't spend much time on suspension tuning. We'll see.

The impressive thing is running 250mph, then driving off the track and cruising 100 miles on the way home in daily traffic and stopping at the grocery store to get milk and eggs, and arriving at home WITHOUT feeling like you're half-deaf and beaten up. The Veyron is the whole package.

I read some of this thread earlier, but my phone isn't conducive to the posts I wanted to make. I don't think there's less Art. I just think there's more crap out there masquerading as Art. There's a worse signal-to-noise ratio than in the past because it's become easier. But there's still room for art both mechanical and visual. On the visual side, you've seen cars that look tacky, and you've seen cars that are just "right". There's a skill to modding a car right that not many people get. On the tuning side, while plug-n-play does lack "art" it only has limited effectiveness in the grand scheme of things. To get the most of an engine requires classic hands-on wrenching. Don't feel guilty. The internet is another tool in your toolbox. Part of the changing landscape. True, but how well did that work? That same guy can now go on the internet and spread his knowledge to countless people. The whole car scene benefits instead of one area. I think the big question here is, will there be another Golden Age of car meets? While there's respect for uncommon and factory-fast cars, a "chipped" car will get few repeat looks, while the built car will have people standing around it all day. I don't think that has gone away. The thing is, the tuning shown in that video is an exception, not the rule. Tuning like that is just using up the "safety margin" the manufacturer engineered into the car. Most cars don't have much margin, though the Euro cars tend to have more due to over-engineering. To use my STI as an example, just a tune will net maybe 5-10hp. Get out the wrenches and free up the exhaust, and those gains jump to 60-80 depending on year/tune. But if you want to go beyond that, you'll have to upgrade the fuel system because you've used up all the overhead Subaru designed into it. Another thing to consider is that cars today are capable of a lot more power than cars of old. So what used to be large gains in the past are easier to achieve, making it look like there's less skill involved. But to get the most from a modern engine, it take all the skills of old plus some new skills. There's plenty of Art out there, but the horsepower wars have made it so people can settle for less and still have an enjoyable ride. There's a lot more vying for kids' attention these days; Social Media, Video Games, etc. But there are also more of them driving too. So while the community may not be growing as fast as it probably should, I don't think it's shrinking. It's the job of us older members of the local communities to guide those that enter the hobby and help them feel welcome. Have we been doing that lately? The SCCA has been struggling with an aging membership and hasn't until recently begun aggressive campaigns to get younger members to join. But I have been seeing more and more new and younger faces at events. So I think there's room for lots of growth in all aspects of our hobby. We just need to let the kids know what options are out there. We need to show them that we'll help them learn to tune their car right, rather than ridicule them for their car choice. And we need to show them that they can take the car they have right now and go race it. It benefits everyone. tl;dr: Plug-n-play tuning only gets you so far, old skool skills are still needed. Kids have less attention for cars these days, but can still be guided.

I'll be more impressed when one of these contenders beats the Veyron's top speed while delivering the same level of comfort and useability. Otherwise it's just a case of putting bigger engines in cars with smaller frontal area.

Lulz. CR crashed when I posted that. Guess it stuttered.

"Cubic Dollars" has always held an edge in performance.

Accidental triple.

Accidental double.

So everything is ok until one act of stupidity. Whatever. The concept is cool. I can almost agree with it.

It will be faster. It just takes a LOT to get Japanese management to try something new. If you cut out the years where Tada was trying to get the car OK'd and the negotiations with Subaru, it really only took 4 years to R&D and build the FR-S. With the data they got from making the FR-S, and management convinced there's profit to be made with little risk, they can move on the Supra very quickly. Granted, I don't think we'll be seeing a 2015MY Supra, but a 2017MY isn't out of the question.

I do everything myself or with a buddy that doesn't require a lift or messing with timing. I lack the first and don't trust myself with the second.

A little late to the party here, forgive me if I cover something already said: I think we're in a golden age of tuning now. The thing about "Golden Ages" is that they never look that way from the inside. The import scene is booming. I can lay down cash and get shortblocks, longblocks, forged internals, better heads, cams, intakes, exhausts, turbos, etc. for my cars. I can replace the suspension with billet and tubular control arms. The interior can go from stock to sport to track day to full-on race. Cages? No problem. Really, consider this: Toyota and Subaru KNEW that the success of the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 depended on the aftermarket. They knew it would fly or die based on how the modding scene received it. To ensure it would be a winner they let the aftermarket tuning companies have pre-production cars months before they were even taking orders. Toyobaru made sure the aftermarket was up to speed the moment the car hit dealer lots. Things have changed, but the shadetree can still do all his work at home. Granted, there are a few more wires to keep track of, but the essentials have not changed. The holy trinity of Fuel, Air, and Spark is still making these engines run. More power comes the same way. But instead of fiddling with a carb, you fiddle with a computer. But even ECU tuning has it's limits, just like a carb. You still need to deliver more fuel if you pump in more air. You still need to open the valves wider, smooth out the exhaust, open the intake, etc. It's all there, just a little bit different. The ECU can also make it easier to mod. You can hook up a computer, start logging, do some quick runs, then come back and see what the changes you made did without having to resort to a "butt-dyno". And for a lot of cars, this can be done for not much $$. The biggest thing about modding today is the Internet. Shadetrees now have access to information and advice from the entire world. Can't figure out why it's running rough? Someone probably had the same issue and knows the solution. How much power is this mod likely to make? Someone's been there, done that, and made a post about it. The automotive world is our oyster. It just takes different tools and a slightly different approach than in the past to get that pearl. As for the future? Electric cars will be the death of tuning as we know it, but not the death of tuning. Look at the electric RC hobby. It'll be like that, but on a larger scale. Re-winding motors, balancing voltage with amperage, improving the driveline, programming for optimal grip, etc. A 400hp AWD Electric Lotus Elise is a possibility *today*; what will the future bring? The only thing that will kill performance modding is cars that cannot be manually driven. But we're a long way from that, and I don't think manually driven cars will ever be outlawed outside of cities. Modding is different today, but far from dead.

The LFA was also a technical exercise. There's a lot of places they could have trimmed costs. But in all reality, I don't see this beating a GTR around a track. It's not a power thing, but a computer thing. The GTR has an ungodly amount of computer hardware that's designed to keep it on a track at peak grip. Only the MP4-12C has more active tech designed for cornering grip. I don't see Toyota investing in that level of R&D and hitting a price target significantly below the GTR. That's not to say they can't make a Supra that handles outstandingly. They know how to put together a world-class handling machine now. They can apply the lessons from the FR-S/BRZ to the Supra to give it the best chance at dethroning the GTR. But I think by virtue of it needing a slightly higher level of skill to get the most from it will mean the GTR will win on-track more often than not. Of course, then Toyota just needs to beat it in a straight line to *claim* to have killed Godzilla. It will be interesting to see if the Supra's press releases are a 180 from the FR-S. If Toyota can take what they learned from the FR-S and scale it up, they'll have a winner here. It just might not be a Zilla-Killa.

It can be fitted to a new car? If the FA20 in the FRS is any indication of how the 3JZ will handle power, then 4 digit hp figures should be possible.

It's a Hulu exclusive series, but you don't need Hulu Plus to watch it. I highly recommend it. For a show that has the lowest set budget ever (it takes place in a booth at a diner), and zero special effects it is really good. It has equal parts of suspense, mystery, drama, and outright mind-fuck. The worst part so far is that the show is so short. First season is only 5 episodes.

I did better than I thought I would. Of course, this wasn't the usual OVR turnout. But I'm usually smack dab in the middle, PAX-wise. 13/100 is nice.

Two tons of fun!

Faster than a TT-RS. :gabe:

Didn't scrub the pads on concrete.

It was fun watching you wrestle that thing around the course.

Had a lot of fun today. The BRZ's setup is good, but might need a little tweaking. Best time for me was 46.6. Das Borgen pulled off a 46.0 in my car. Borrowed cars are faster, right?

Not what I was hoping for. Looks heavy.

Actually being on CR is more like being constantly UNDER fire...

CR Stock crabs can jump 20 feet.