BDBGoalie

Agreed. I need to rephrase that to a break-in period is OK for certain things. Like going easy, limiting cleaning, etc. A break-in period where the weapon does not function is not OK. My research was not involved enough. I mainly read reviews that praised each weapon, rather than the forums complaining that they did not work. They encountered a few malfunctions during a full day of shooting, but not anything that really popped a flag. My bad on not being through enough. Vance's bad on telling me they function 100% of the time and are great as EDC. It does seem that 4" 1911s are pretty reliable across the board. Maybe a little less so with 9mm. Occasional issues I can understand. Like 1 in 50. Both weapons performed below expectations and malfunctioned much more than was considered the norm. Especially the Colt. Again, you pay $1000+, you expect your first 300-500 rounds to have an occasional malfunction at the most, not a consistent malfunction all the time. 1 in 10 rounds, unsat. 1 in 3 rounds, waaaay unsat. The weapon malfunctions pissed me off, but I was much more incensed with the manner Vance's handled the sales and customer service. Should I rephrase things to accentuate that? Yea, the price tag was a hard one to swallow. I'm very happy I did though.

I ran 200 rounds through the Colt with the same issues. I ran 100 rounds through the Kimber. I was not willing to give away anymore money on malfunctioning products. That brings up another wonderful point. What company can release a product with a $1000+ price tag and still expect a customer to have to fire 300-500 rounds through it before it functions reliably? That is a pile of horseshit. They should include those rounds, or fire the weapons at the factory until they are ready for use. I'm not paying that much money and just hoping that it will eventually work like it is supposed to. My Wilson has never had a single issue or a "break-in" period. None of my polymer weapons malfunction for 500 rounds until "broken-in". None of my rifles malfunction for 500 rounds until "broken-in". If they malfunction 10-20 times I take it back. I don't just expect it will go away. If you bike's brakes didn't work 50% of the time for the first 1000 miles would you write that off as break-in period? I was tossing the idea of a EMP around but some of the features made me want a traditional 1911 over it. I'd have to look at its specs now to even tell you what those reasons were. I do agree now that if you want a 3" 1911, get an EMP. Else wise buy a 4" or 5". I'd recommend .45ACP as well.

I'm looking for somewhere within a 45 min - 1 hour drive of central Ohio that we can shoot pistols and rifles. And occasionally blow up things. (I have an old 32" TV and 2lbs of Tannerite that are aching to meet properly) Ideally this would be someone's property that we could set up a decent backstop and the neighbors wouldn't call the cops every fifteen minutes. We would be more than happy to provide the owner with chicken and beer (Or his/her preference) any time we shot there. We would also be open to any commercial ranges in that area. Blackwing is great for winter, but it is nice to shoot outside in the warmer months. Not to mention I can't blow up things on their range. Please PM me with any ideas or information. Thanks!!!

I was asked about my experience with Vance's in another thread and I figured that if I was going to write this all out, I wanted everyone to have a chance to see it. I went in during Christmas time looking for a small-frame 1911 to replace my G19 as a EDC. I was open to calibers and sizes, but was looking for a 3" 9mm for the compactness and lighter recoil. The sales person ran through a few options for 3" and 4" 1911s in 9mm and .45ACP. I ended up selecting a Colt New Agent for its size and the channel sight. The salesperson assured me that 3" 1911s function perfectly (in 9mm or .45ACP) and it would be a reliable EDC. I took the Colt to the range (Blackwing) and loaded up the first magazine. Bang. Bang. FTE. Clear. Bang. FTE. Clear. Bang. FTE.... That continued for about 40 rounds. I borrowed a Wilson Combat magazine and tried that to see if the magazine was the problem. Nope. I switched ammo to another two different brands. Nope. By the end of the day the Colt was averaging a malfunction every third shot. Totally unsat. Since I'm stationed away from home, I had to head back to Ft. Campbell before Vance's opened again on Tuesday. I discussed the problems with Vance's on the phone and they told me to bring it in and they would ship it to Colt. So I cleaned the weapon, wrote a letter to Colt describing the problems, and my wife took the weapon in to have it shipped to Colt. Well Vance's decided that it was a better idea to give it to their 1911 gunsmith and let him try and fix the problem. Now don't forget that they don't even have a range there to test things. They returned the weapon to my confused wife and she headed home. Well I got back the following weekend and checked out the pistol. Now when I tried to chamber a round the extractor tension was so high it would pinch a round 3/4 of the way into the chamber and jam. Awesome. Now I had yet another problem to deal with. I went down to talk to the manager, and after waiting for 35 minutes he came out to see me. I explained the initial problem, the actions taken, and the additional problem after that. He offered to send it to Colt, and I wanted them to have nothing to do with fixing the weapon again. I figured they had their chance and instead tried to go the cheap and easy route. So we argued for 15 minutes about that, until I was fed up and ready to leave and just deal with it myself. I told him I had been a good customer up to that point, and I was a service member. I asked him if he was really going to just let me leave angry and never come back, and he said yes. At that point another manager came over and offered to return the weapon. This was a decent turn of events, so I was happy they were going to fix the problem. He wrote up a return slip, and I said lets go look at 1911s that work properly. He ran through the same list again, and I ended up with a 3" Kimber in 9mm. Again, I was assured 3" 1911s function perfectly as an EDC. (My research online had not turned up anything saying otherwise directly, just "break-in issues") So off to Blackwing I went. Ran a few magazines through the Kimber and it fired fine but the slide would not lock back on the last round. I ended up borrowing the same Wilson Combat 9mm magazine and that fixed the problem. I got to around round 40-45 and FTE. "WTF!!" The malfunctions occurred more and more as the weapon got dirty. I was livid at that point. I headed to the counter at Blackwing to see if they could give me any advice. I was directed to Kevin Seymour, a sales person and gunsmith (Personal) who specializes in 1911s. The first thing he explained was how the 5" 1911 functioned. This was done in detail with care that I understood everything he was telling me. He the explained why the shortening of the slide to less than 4" made the weapon unreliable. (Slide travel, spring pressures, etc.) He then took my Kimber and inspected it. He verified that the extractor tension was not set properly. He removed the extractor and adjusted the tension, all while explaining each step to me. He then examined the slide lock. He showed me how the poor machining by Kimber on their part left too much gap, and the magazine couldn't push far enough to engage the slide. He grabbed a Wilson Combat slide lock and amazingly it worked like a champ. Then he took my pistol out to the range and test fired it. He verified function and brought it back. All of this was done out of interest in satisfying a customer, and without any charge. A week later I was back and I traded my Kimber in on a Wilson. I've never been happier with my EDC, and my new weapons store. Recap: Vance's will sell anything to make a buck. They will tell you anything to make that sale. Blackwing will give you honest answers and point you in the direction of a weapon/product that will do the job you want it to. Although I selected a single member of their staff to praise, all of them offer awesome customer service. Not to mention they offer a lifetime warranty from the store at no additional cost.

I will make a thread telling the story now. I figure if I'm going to write that whole thing out, I'll make sure everyone has a chance to see it and it's not lost in this thread.

That place is terrible. I had the worst service I have ever experienced. 10 minute wait for server. 30 minute wait for drinks to arrive after they were ordered. Another 20 minutes before she took our order...... The manager even blew me off when I complained at the end of the meal. In addition to that, the combination of poor lighting and no security makes the parking lot a unsafe environment. The most notable one was when a woman was attacked and raped (During business hours) in the parking lot, and had to make her way to the Urgent Care Center before she got any help. (That is first hand knowledge from my wife's mother who works at the Urgent Care.) This is not the case of the other Wings and Rings, only the location on East Broad. I have friends and family that live off East Broad and if we want to eat at a Wings and Rings we will drive to the other side of the city. I will never support this restaurant. I would love to see that Ohio Riders would not support this restaurant as well.

Yup, just all ends up which command you fall in under. I was more correcting the PSYOP info. All Active PSYOP soldiers are assigned to 4th POG, and wear the USASOF unit patch. All CA and reserve PSYOP wear the USACAPOC unit patch. The FWSSSI can be any unit a soldier deployed to a combat zone with. Lots of soldiers have a few to choose from. With her being assigned and deployed with Group I'd expect the typical SF patch on both shoulders, minus the tab on the left. It is interesting that the Group coin you picked is from a reserve component SF unit. I know and trained with a few guys from Utah. Nice guys.

I'm running novice with my friend on 13 May 2012

That is the unit patch for USACAPOC. It covers the Reserve component Civil Affairs and PSYOP units. That is the USASOF patch that Active Duty PSYOP soldiers wear. Also, glad your ride went well and seemingly without a hitch.

And of course: (My guess is this has been seen here before at least once though)

I used to think that way about safeties as well. My prior carry weapon was a G19. I feel more comfortable with the extra layer of security. I also treat my training just like BRM, I practice weapon up, acquire target, release safety, fire, safe weapon, clear area, re-holster. I do agree it takes extra preparation to be as effective. I just hate DA/Half-cock (Glock-style) triggers.

Once you get hooked on the 1911's you'll never go back. I was sent here from overseas to the WTU for a board due to injuries. So if he is with any other unit other than MEDCOM I prolly don't know him. Not to mention there is like 90,000 people here with all four Brigades back.

I've been shopping around for a tactical long gun for a while now and the bullpup design has always intrigued me. I went into Blackwing for some shooting this weekend and they had a used one. Of course I had to shoot it. That led to paperwork and less bike parts this season. The MSAR STG-556 is a clone of the Steyr Aug A3, but with some differences. They reverse-engineered the weapon but changed a few things they felt needed changed. Pros: The weapon weighs around 7.2lbs, which is similar to an M4. It feels heavier because the overall profile is shorter, and more of the weight is in the rear. Once you get used to that you get the benefit of a very well balanced weapon that is weighted in a manner that does a very good job of not pulling under rapid fire. The recoil also goes directly back and give a much different feeling than an AR. Bringing the weapon up and on target is very quick and feels natural. The weapon just comes up and almost snaps into place. Field stripping the weapon is ridiculously easy. Barrel un-snaps and pulls out. Receiver separates into the upper, bolt carrier, and stock assemblies. The trigger group comes out of the back of the stock in an assembled unit. It is very easy, and the separation allows you to clean the star chamber without swearing and using a metric ton of pipe cleaners. The weapon is also very modular. Most all the parts on the exterior are quick dis-connectors, and have multiple attachment points built into the stock. The factory trigger is set at 9-11lbs, so the pull is a bit heavy. It is a smooth consistent pull back, so the extra weight is not an issue. Ratworx makes a replacement trigger pack that replaces the stock unit with a adapted AR trigger group that allows adjustments (~4.5-8lbs). The charging handle is a bit stiff but smooth once it is moving. It operates very similarly to a MP5 bolt-catch in locking and releasing. The ejection port is directly next to your head when firing. You are not in danger of catching brass, but you will smell a bit more powder than normal. It does not bother me. The extractor seems strong and kicks the brass away without issue. I had zero malfunctions while running through ~100 rounds. I did fail to seat a magazine properly once. Guess the big boy pants were in the car for that round. But it shot very reliably. I even ran a magazine half .223 and half 5.56 and it did fine with that. I think it a beautiful looking weapon as well. But that may be prejudice from lugging around packs and M4s. I'm also much more of a tactical person. Cons: MSAR is now bankrupt. They are no longer producing these weapons, and their parts supplies are limited. I'm told they still service their weapons, but I can not validate that claim. A company called Ratworx provides lots of spare parts as well as aftermarket parts. Blackwing covered it under their lifetime warranty so I figure I'm covered both ways. Aftermarket parts are available, but not nearly as much as AR parts. Although this weapon is a clone, they did not exactly clone the AUG. That means that all parts are not interchangeable. Some are, but consider that most likely will not be. The magazines are proprietary. They say it will accept Steyr magazines, but I've heard that it will cause feeding issues. You can change out the stock to accept AR-style magazines. The bolt did not lock to the rear when using the cheap .223. It did lock back when firing the 5.56. I'm not sure if this is normal or a problem, but it is not a major issue either way. Magazine changes are slow until you figure out the form, which I have not yet. The sight rail is not very long which gives it a less desirable sight radius. I was still very accurate with BUIS, but it did accentuate my mistakes and movements. Overall I like the weapon, and the price I picked it up for was too good to say no to. It definitely has a flaw or two but the benefits outweigh them by leaps and bounds IMO. I will try and give some notice before I hit the range again, so if anyone is interested they would be welcome to run a mag through it.

I've bought this weapon after my debacle with Vance's and their insistence on selling me things that don't work. I've been using it as an EDC whenever I am home. Blackwing Shooting Center was very helpful in describing the details and differences between the manufacturers. They also offer a lifetime warranty on all their weapons. If you are interested in a 1911, Wilson or otherwise, ask for Kevin Seymour at Blackwing. When I was still having issues with the Kimber, which was purchased from Vance's, he still took the time to dismantle and show me exactly where the problems were, fixed them, test fired the weapon, and returned it to me functioning without charging me a dime. (Course that hunk of crap got traded on the Wilson, thereby ending my relationship with Vance's and Kimber all in one transaction) Pros: First off, the fit and finish on these weapons is unreal. Everything fits perfectly, and is polished/machined where it should be. All of the mechanical functions are very smooth. I've put ~600-800 rounds through it and never had a single malfunction. (If some company tells you it is normal for their $1000+ weapon to malfunction for the first 500 rounds as it "breaks-in", they are doing something very wrong.) It is much more accurate that I am. The 4" 1911 style pistols are much more comfortable to carry IMO as well. The weapon is a little heavier than a polymer, although with the Lightweights (Alloy frames) they only weigh a few ounces more. It ends up having just the right weight for recoil absorption without being a bear to carry all day. The single stack conceals much better as well. Carrying locked and loaded took a minute to get used to. Once I looked over all the safeties, how they functioned, and tested them all, I feel totally safe now carrying it in Condition 1. Make sure you practice safety engagement/disengagement if your prior weapon did not have a safety lever. Wilson Combat customer service is awesome as well. Anytime I've had a question, in depth or simple, they are happy to take the time to make sure I get the right answer. The weapon is insured for life through Wilson, all you ever pay is shipping. Even if I wear the finish off the slide from holstering, they refinish it for free. Only thing I pay is shipping. They are quick about repairs as well. Cons: The only downside is the price, which is consummate. I bit the bullet and figured that this would be the last carry weapon I ever buy. I'm loving that decision BTW. Please PM me with any questions.

New pics.

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I'm looking for a camera to use for the track and I'd rather just buy the good one than save a few bucks and have to upgrade later. I'm interested in the GoPro HD Hero2 Motorsports Edition. I'm looking for good condition used, or new. (Do any of our sponsors carry GoPro?) Please PM me with any offers or questions.

Sorry this is last minute, it kinda came together in a hurry. I'll be up at Blackwing at 1000 with a group of friends shooting a variety of pistols and rifles. Skeet too if the weather cooperates. If anyone is interested or around there feel free to swing by. Should be there till 1200-1300.

Agreed. You're putting 10s of thousands of rounds downrange before the barrel will go bad, and more than likely something else will fail first. As far as picking out a weapon, get something she is comfortable with. If she likes the weapon and the recoil, she will shoot it more, and become more accurate with that. If you put three rounds in the "x" ring, it really doesn't matter what caliber you are using. Larger caliber typically increases the weight of the weapon as well. Since she is going to have to be comfortable carrying this around all day, make sure the loaded weight won't bother her. Also, the larger the caliber, the less rounds you get in your mag, so the more your shot selection and placement matters. As far as calibers, there are plenty to choose from depending on needs. Penetration will depend on ammo used (Type of JHP). You need to shoot your CCW monthly, so keep ammo cost in mind as well. I'm not including all handgun calibers as well, just some of the more common. Ammo is Federal Hydra-Shok where not listed. .22lr - Minimal stopping power. Low recoil. $5/20rds (Federal JHP, price adjusted to box of 20). .25ACP - Minimal stopping power. Low recoil. $18/20rds (Speer JHP). 7.62x25 - Decent stopping power. Minimal recoil, but not terrible. $21/50rds (Couldn't find prices on JHP). .38 Special- Good stopping power. Medium recoil. $23/20rds. .380ACP - Good stopping power. Medium-heavy recoil (But most .380s are small frame pistols). $22/20rds. 9mm - Good stopping power. Medium recoil. $21/20rds. .357 Mag - Better stopping power. Medium-heavy recoil. $17/20rds. .40S&W - Better stopping power. Medium-heavy recoil. $24/20rds. .45ACP - Better stopping power. Heavy recoil. $24/20rds. 10mm - Best stopping power. Heavy recoil. Nasty powerful round. $27/20rds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqerdyRSPWc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJxOsYh12yY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmeP6QWQhVo

I definitely wouldn't consider myself a racist or prejudiced. I try to give everyone a chance before I make a decision. I do avoid certain places based on their reputation for crime and such, so I guess I'm prejudiced in that way. However until I know someone I consider them a potential threat until proven otherwise, and that is regardless of race. Always maintain situational awareness and carry a big stick.

Joe Rocket Alter Ego 3.0 http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=91479

I tried on the Plus and the Pro. Pony didn't have a set of Techs to try. I had read they were more rigid but had that extra level of protection. I like my dexterity, so I was pushing for the Pro anyways.