Moto-Brian

Well... Since you have "pedigree", I guess I need to shut the fuck up. Wow... 30 bikes in 13 years? Do I get to say how many I've ridden in just the last 5? Do I? Huh, huh? Please? With your extensive experience, thinking 43 pounds is only 3 pounds over is kinda funny. Maybe someone with more pedigree than myself can tell you why... Have fun blowing your stack up at the dealer. I am sure that we will get another thread as to why they are assholes for not helping you out... If it were me, I'd clutch that fucker at 14k and launch it through the front display window and shout at the top of my lungs "PEDIGREEEEEEEEEEE BITCHES"!!! At least the security cam will be shown on YouTube and you can show all your bros how bad ass you are.

It's 3.1 L... Which is 3.3 QT...

The capacity is 3.3US QT... Not 3.1... And, if you took just shy of 4 QTs, how did you measure that? Just curious because I think you ought to educate yourself before you go in with guns blazing. The sensor being bad on the servos or most likely it being a STVA and has NOTHING to do with the ECU. You're not going to get an ECU, man. And, you really shouldn't ask for one. It doesn't warrant getting one. If it is a 2013, the warranty will cover the STVA. However, I would be interested in how you start the bike. I am wondering if you are touching the throttle. Most guys that have trouble starting them are touching the throttle and you'll have a similar issue. Again, not an ECU issue... Finally, the dealership doesn't have to top off the tank. Most places are not doing that anymore. You have a gas warning light for a reason and if it comes on, you need refueling... Pretty simple concept. Again, if buying used, things like a clutch can easily be worn as a lot of guys slip the shit out of them or are abusing them. I can attest to clutches being worn with only a year's worth of riding because the guy abused the bike. Also, clutches can come across as fine when trading in and if you ride it a while later, it can go out. Or maybe the second owner isn't too easy on the clutch either and puts it into the dead zone. I'd just be really careful what you "demand" as you can easily come across as a dick and they can easily put up a wall and not be very kind. Now, it COULD be an ECU issue, but I highly doubt it. So, be careful and be polite and ask calm and educated questions and I bet you get further than if you walk in with demands and a tone...

And thus, maybe the salesman WAS more educated than the buyer... Good call. I forgot that the tank cover...

Hooligan- you really need to be realistic. Now you're pissed because they didn't know a bike was FI. I bet I can ask you questions about your bike and face to face, you won't know the answer. It's like racing. It's a series of racers that do it as a profession. Some are better than others. But, even the best make mistakes. Again, I highly doubt that you've done your job with 100% accuracy. The bottom line is that you really need to just stay away from anyone in retail and buy everything from CL or someone else. You are the customer that is never happy and most likely wasn't going to buy. If you were, you wouldn't have walked. I've dealt with a lot of people that just don't know. But if it is something I want, I can bear dealing with them. You walked because you had to wait 30 minutes. That's BS. You walked because you had no intention of buying and was irritated and walked out. In your mind they lost a sale. In reality they will sell the bike to someone that is a buyer and not a time waster. I had a kid at a shop come in looking at Ducatis. He said he had a 2012 zx10R. Great bike. So, it was a bit if a shock to hear him say the 848evo he was looking at was such a better bike than what he had now. He didn't own a zx10R. If he had, how the fuck is the 848 better? Then to ask if this is the one with titanium rods. That's the 1199R. I just grin and deal with it. Walked him around, have him the tour and blew smoke up his ass. He wasn't a buyer and wasn't a potential customer. He was kicking tires and wanted to be looked upon as someone that was cool and deserved to look at the Ducs. I didn't mind. I didn't care. In fact, he was a potential. Maybe he will remember that visit and come to the shop and buy. Some sales guys would have dropped him like a pinto transmission. I suspect that was a bit of the case in your situation. Before you go asking me how I can judge if you were a buyer or not - save your breath. I am heading out to ride. Pony is a good shop. Good staff and overall, probably one of if not the best shop in Columbus.

Yup... You sound like you were a dick. Point is simple. The guys should know the bikes they are selling. They also should be able to get service to help out in the case of a serious buyer. If you had cash in hand and were serious, they dropped the ball. But I am guessing as in any of these types of stories that there is another side of the story. As far as missing the FI vs. Carbed - it happens, man. I understand they should know the product. He made a small error and after all, he's human. I bet you've made small errors or mistakes in life or at your job. Happens. Lighten up, Francis and give them a second shot. Go in and ask for Lenny and you'll get treated right. You just maybe got a green horn or on a day where they were slammed and he knew that service would have taken a while to get to the bike which again would have probably been the same amount of time as if he had quick charged it himself. Realize that he did try and accommodate and help you out. It's not wasting people's time if he is willing to help you or try and get it started.

PM sent...

Yes, you can jump it, but you can also have some issues if done incorrectly. AllI am saying is that I think battery boosters are for cars and they aren't suggested for bikes. You could try and jump with another motorcycle. Again, the time it would take and to get everything sorted, they could have it quick charged in that time. No matter what, let's say it took 15 minutes. Sounds like the OP wasn't going to stick around. I believe that the OP walked in, wanted to hear the bike run and the sales guy read him as a roach and when the bike wouldn't start, OP reacted and the salesman offered to charge thinking the OP wouldn't stick around as he wasn't a buyer anyways. A buyer would have waited... They could have talked and got information in the time it took to quick charge.

So, a used bike that had a drained battery and you go blasting the dealer because they were going to try and start a bike for you just to listen to? Here's the drill. Sure, they could have jumped it. But, jumping isn't the best idea. Maybe they could have replaced the battery in a half ass manner to just get it running, but by the time they found a suitable battery, replaced it and started it, they would have taken almost as long as to charge it. Sounds like you're an impatient dude who has no concept that used bikes can have these issues. Hell, my brand new 1199 had a faulty battery brand new and wouldn't start the first time I went to ride it. Shit happens. It's how the dealer handles it that is how they should be judged. They were trying to get it inning so a squid could hear it. Starting a bike to let it run doesn't allow the battery to be maintained by the bikes charging system. But, they still were willing to accommodate your request. Most dealer would have done the same. And maybe, you were bein such a dick, they decided to charge it because you were a tire kicker or they hoped you just go away.

THAT explains a few things... I'd say he was really doing well, but just wasn't smooth in the corners and was braking a lot more than he needed to. His mid corner to exit was pretty solid which is good. So, a little more and he'd be ready for Novice racing for sure.

That 848 was a fast sum beotch on the straights. I thought it was a 1098/1198... Good looking, too.

I was in Detroit Friday and Saturday and only at Indy for the GP on Sunday. Just ask next time and someone will know where I am at. Been cool to see you there.

You are correct. The same dyno and same time is preferred and why I commented on being corrected and inaccurate in my comments. The M696 does have 80 hp. It's whether the dyno numbers are accurate or not. Each will be different. But it would register the same difference in the 650r. I agree that dyno numbers tend to be useless until one rides a bike. Again, good job getting that info.

This from the guy that cannot tell the difference in wet and dry clutches... Again, if you understand the graph, the torque comes on sooner with the V. The power also. The feel from that is that the Monster is stronger. Which it is even on the graph. But, the difference in TOTAL PEAK NUMBERS isn't going to be felt. You won't feel 2 hp or 2 ft/tq. But, you will feel the difference when they hit and come on. Like the 1199 vs. a GSXR1000, BMW 1000RR, etc. The 1199 has it's torque come early and HP starts sooner. However, they gain legs in the 8-9k range and start pulling away. Meaning, you can feel the difference in the areas where the bike is stronger and not so much. I also had the numbers on the M696 and had a vague knowledge off the top of my head on the 650r. I was not close on the difference, but was in terms of when it hit and seat of the pants feel. If that makes sense. Just get some seat time, man. Maybe then you won't be so angry towards the brand and be so slanderous to the owners of the brand. That's all I am getting at. Seat time and opinion go hand in hand. Ducatis are not going to win everyone over, but I have found in the short time with the company and time with KTM that people tend to get an opinion based on the fact they either cannot afford the brand or have an opinion based on OLD scenarios read on the internet or from people they know. Today is different than in 1989 for example. I'm done. Everyone can argue on the bike posted in the start of the thread. I will sit back and watch what is said and enjoy it. You all are on your own unless it gets personal... Then I'll bite.

Where did I say the KTM was better than the Ducati? The RC8R was about equal footing to the 1098/1198 which it was. The RC8R handles better than the 1098/1198 in my opinion. I am saying or have stated that the Multi was probably the best bike I've ridden and is based on an overall. I've also only stated my opinion on the 1199 and only stated truth like I feel it is better than the RC8R. The power is more, it handles minimally as well if not slightly better than the RC8R. As for MX/Off Road - I will stand on the thoughts that they are at the pinnacle right now. The sales prove it and the quality and performance of their off road machines indicate that my opinion then and now is warranted and could be seen as accurate. Sorry I get to ride so many different bikes and can actually form an opinion. You've got to ride how many RC8Rs? How many 1199s? How many 1098/1198s? And I am not talking to the end of the street. I'm talking proper riding on the street or in my case, both street and track. My position is that I got an opportunity to leave KTM for Ducati. I chose to for several reasons, but the top reason was that I felt Ducati is the pinnacle of street bikes in the sporting category. I've been a Ducati fan sine I garduated from high school. Posters on the wall of the 888, 851, etc. Doug Polen wheelie with thumb up blown up on my wall and framed. I'm not a band wagon fan, dude. I've been a fan from about 1987... Not just since October when I came on board. I'll let the kid that cannot even tell the difference between the dry clutch and wet clutch on an 848 EVO dictate opinion on here. Not sure where I've been biased and stated anything that isn't proper. Have you ridden an M696 and a 650r? The Monster pulls at lower RPMs. I stated that Tpoppa had proper info and that I stood corrected. People fucking missed that apparently... What I can tell you is that if you rode the M696 and the 650r, you'd probably prefer the M696.

Tpoppa. I can Google and find a dyno sheet showing 70 plus at the rear wheel on the M696. I can also find a dyno sheet showing 61 on the 650r. Also, look at the graphs on the same dyno they are using (hopefully the same day). The torque curve starts a lot earlier on the V twin. The HP is also stronger sooner and lower in the revs. Nobody rides at below 5k. Well, hopefully they don't... My numbers were based on info I gathered from looking online on the 650R and I know what we have in the M696... The V vs. the parallel is no question going to pull harder sooner. I know your graphs are saying there is minimal difference, but in looking where they hit, you'd be better off on the M696. You have made a great point, though that they are very close. Closer than I knew. But, like I said, the numbers you can find on Google align a little better. You can make anything align with the argument you wish to push. My bottom line is that the kid isn't really educated on Ducati and yet has a very negative opinion. It's very much a bummer. The whole not knowing the 848 EVO having a wet clutch was the dead giveaway... But, great posts on the graphs. I stand corrected.

First of all, I only have apologized when I felt the person was going to try and mess with my stuff or harm my family or scare them. The only times. I apologized to someone on WERA because I wasn't wanting them to take it so seriously that they tried to harm a way of life. People get WAY too serious. So, big deal. But, I do blow up on people and what is really funny is when people like yourself that try and back pedal and try to argue a point and then realize that the truth was being spoken by me or someone else. You did say what you just quoted. But, you think that someone can practice body position and race line. You cannot practice when the bike cannot be maneuvered successfully on such a tight track. Dragging knee on a 600 at CRP? Good one. Pit in and Pit out is simple. Listen to a coach and when you go out on the first lap and they roll out of pit and roll off the track to show the rider what they are talking about, the lesson is learned and you should be able to get the drift. He can practice that on the freeway... I only "blow up on people" when they tend to spout off information to people like the OP that are green horns and trying to absorb proper information. I don't want a guy to spend the money driving down to CRP and spending ANY money or even getting in for free and wasting time and money. What he is going to get from CRP and a full size sportbike is exactly what he can get from riding clover leafs or running in a parking lot. Those are free. So, even cheaper which is right up your alley. What really boils my ass is the idea that you think road racing and track days are super expensive and apparently you can get the same exact feel and results with mini racing. Maybe to some people. Maybe. But to what is apparently a higher number of participants when looking at the amount that come to both types of events, big bikes are still pretty popular. Quit with the "I'm poor and cannot afford track days so I ride minis and so should everyone else." Your arguments are always based on cost. That's silly. It's like saying you should buy a push mower to cut your 5 acre yard because it is cheaper and you get the same end result. Yes, the yard gets cut but it is nowhere the same thing as if you had a larger riding mower. Finally, I don't run around saying that I am fast and I never say anything to that side of things. You throw shit out, call out names, wish people ill will and all the time, all I am saying is that your idea doesn't make sense. Your panties get in a wad and then you pout and place me on ignore. Perfect. I'm obviously not dealing with an adult. Or if an adult, one with super thin skin. Shame.

Awesome. Now you're wishing injury on me... Sweet... Keep it coming. Tell ya what... You come to Nelson and I'll pay the entry fee. You run the fastest lap you can and I'll run mine. Then, we go to CRP and I'll pay there also. I'll bring a stock CRF100 and run the fastest lap and you do the same. We get some practice time and maybe a time limit. Meaning, you won't get a full day to keep fiddling with shit and learning stuff. Or, if you'd rather do a full day, that's fine also. The guy with the lowest total lap time wins and has to post that they suck sweaty balls and that the winner is the best rider in the world. I get to say that little bikes don't do shit for getting faster on a big bike and big track and if you win, you get to say that I am wrong and that big bike racers suck at riding minis. Or whatever floats your wiener. What say you to that offer? Otherwise, keep racing the mini. Keep thinking that a full sized sportbike will be a great idea to learn race lines and body position at a karting track. Please do not sign up as an instructor anywhere. Please!

OK, let's spin this another way. You always come on and tell everyone how great it is to save money. I get that. But are you telling me that it makes perfect sense for a guy with a full size sportbike to go to CRP with how tight a karting track is to ride at any type of speed to get "used to riding at a track" before going into the Novice program at any one of the clubs I mentioned? Answering that will dictate my being an asshole. I didn't start the deal, bro. You mentioned it and I said it was a stupid idea. I kept it a bit more tame, but since you calling me an asshole, I am going to say it was fucking stupid which it really is. As for the quote above so that it cannot be retracted - dude... I don't retract shit. In fact, I will say that it was a fucking stupid idea to your face. Because it is. I love the fact that you're drinking the Kool-Aide. Awesome. You might wanna re-read the post you quoted and find any point where I was aiming directly for you. You might also want to find a spot where I was name calling as you just did. You're a class act, dude. The fact is really simple. It is a guy asking about track days. Not whether it makes sense to take a bike and ride it at a super slow speed similar to an MSF course layout and be adaptable to a track like Nelson or Mid-Ohio. I think you honestly cannot see the craziness in what you are saying.

Apparently because I don't ride the small bikes enough I cannot discuss it... The funny thing is that I probably have more time on a small bike than red does. I certainly have more real supermoto experience... But, it just seems I bash my skull into a brick wall when we get into this little bike shit...

Are you referring to mini bikes running street tires or actual supermoto? Actual supermoto isn't cheap. The cost to set up an MX bike to be a supermoto is expensive. But, I will say that supermoto is something that translates to big bikes better than a small bike like a NSR is going to. If he has a big bike, ride a big track. Let's not get side tracked here...

I didn't know you had one! Get with me on some chassis numbers and what model you have. The bike has amazing feedback. Is agile to the point that it almost oversteers. Not a single wobble from mine at speed and I think you can attest that I can get mine up to speed pretty good. We found some really solid chassis changes this past Monday. They are brilliant and even Carr was impressed as he hadn't tried them yet. I've not yet experienced a real issue on heat on street rides. But, all Ducs are pretty hot so, it may be that I am used to it. My Diavel roasts me a bit also... I dunno. The footpegs is a new one and I can see where you are coming from. They are not the best stock pegs out there...

OK... I was going to be nice... BUT... The 696 isn't a 650. Second, it is 80 hp vs 60 on the 650r. That's a big difference and the torque is lower on the 650 also. Even if we use your "74" hp figure as each bike can be different and I am sure you'll follow up with dyno figures. But in case I am surprised that you don't (I won't be...), 14 hp is a big jump... Now, on to the fact that you've ridden 4 and didn't pick up on my comments, if you in fact rode an 848 EVO, the thing you apparently didn't pick up on was the fact that it doesn't have a dry clutch. So, with the fact that you say they all had them and related that to your "experience", I'd say you're a young kid with a strong opinion and trying to make yourself look cool that you rode some bikes you read about in a magazine. Pretty cool... Again, let the adults control the conversation and I think you'll be OK... Poppa - I agree. It would be cool to have some of the old school bikes back. But, just like the Sport Classic that failed terribly at retail in say, 2007, the bike is now selling at original retail some 6 years later USED. But, if we build those again, they won't sell. People want them, but not enough to justify sales. It unfortunately is a demand issue relating to sales and growth. Ducati needs to grow yet maintain their soul and supply what customers want.

I responded because you're logic is insane. I get the idea you have a hard on for mini racing and are making every effort to promote them. Got it. But if you think that riding CRP on a full size sportbike is going to help at a big track, stick with mini racing and let the big kids deal with the real bikes. It just doesn't make sense. I'm sure you'll say that he needs to buy an xr100 and come down because it translates perfectly. And you guys wonder why the mini guys have a bad rap... OP - don't try and ride your sportbike at CRP. Waste of time and really, most likely will result in a crash or a lot of running off track. Get to mid-Ohio STT NESBA or Moto series. Do a novice group on a track designed and suitable for life size vehicles.

Are you mildly retarded?