Car Troubles

[buxnut]

So I am driving down 23 south Tuesday morning, exit at route 37 and when I get to the stopped traffic my car dies.  Tried to start it and it cranks but not even close to starting.  Turns over but sounds way different than it ever has before.  Get towed to a local repair shop that I have used for the past 7 years without hesitation.  They have always been reasonably priced and treated me very well.  Takes a day to look at it and calls me to say "something let loose in the timing chain area".  From what I know, this is bad.  He says he does not think anything else is wrong so I say go ahead and replace it.  calls me this morning and says that it looks like the valves are bent and now I need a new motor, AND I owe $900 for the timing chain work. 

 

He just called back and said that he got the timing chain work down to $500.  So for a used motor with 91k on it and the timing chain work, I would be out the door for $2300.  Told him I need the weekend to think it over and he was fine with that. 

 

I have never had to do a motor swap before.  Is this reasonable or am I being raked over the coals?  The car has 158k on it as it sits today.  I had planned on getting something newer once the wife's van is paid off in another 16 - 18 months. 

 

I am reaching out to my ORDN brethren to get a second opinion. 

 

I already know LBTS GLWS. 

 

Thanks for any insight you guys can provide. 

 

Bill.

[Cheech]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the timing chain work be moot if you're going to do a engine swap?  I'd imagine the newer engine already has a working timing belt/chain.

 

That being said, what's the going rate for a newer engine for that car?  Have you priced them out?  What's their hourly labor rate?

[Bad324]

What kind of car and motor?

It's been awhile since I've dealt with anything like that but $2k seems about average I think for a motor and swap. That's about the cost it would take for us to do one of our trucks

Edited August 16, 2013 by Bad324

[magley64]

So they didn't bother checking to see if the valves were bent BEFORE putting in a new timing chain? That's a shitty diagnostic call on their part... IMO, you shouldn't have to pay for that.

As for what to do now... depends on what car....

[ZxHooligan]

If only you had a push rod engine you would only have bent push rods instead of bent valves. Damn over head cams

[magley64]

If only you had a push rod engine you would only have bent push rods instead of bent valves. Damn over head cams

If he didn't have an interference engine, he wouldn't have bent anything...lol

[Steve Butters]

So they didn't bother checking to see if the valves were bent BEFORE putting in a new timing chain? That's a shitty diagnostic call on their part... IMO, you shouldn't have to pay for that.

As for what to do now... depends on what car....

Hate to say but I agree... He should diagnosed bent valves before doing timing.. Tell him to get fucked for that $500 Edited August 16, 2013 by Steve Butters

[ZxHooligan]

If he didn't have an interference engine, he wouldn't have bent anything...lol

Yeah but hardly anyone makes one of those anymore. There is no where to make money on those the greedy corporate system has taken over

[grapesmuggler27]

I'm not a engine mechanic but are the bent valves something that really can be found before the timing belt is replaced?

[JackFlash]

I'm wondering, how old is the car, and do you want to keep it?

 

And, can you get an engine with less than 91k on it?

 

Plus, what is the car worth with a good engine?

 

It might be a better idea to unload it and upgrade to something newer. 

 

Talk to your finance company for the van and see about

rolling the van payment and a newer car payment into

one affordable payment.

[JackFlash]

So they didn't bother checking to see if the valves were bent BEFORE putting in a new timing chain?

 

 

 He should diagnosed bent valves before doing timing.

 

I'm not a engine mechanic but are the bent valves something that really can be found before the timing belt is replaced?

 

I'm guessing that the cost to check for bent valves would have added quite

a bit to the cost, with the same outcome, except with the heads off, they

could replace the valves, I think.  And, possibly the cheapest way was to

put in a chain and see if it works.  Just guessing.

 

.

Edited August 16, 2013 by JackFlash

[serpentracer]

$2300 is a bit high for a used engine swap.  if it was a new engine expect to pay at least $1500 for the engine.  but used ones can be had for little to nothing if found in the right places.

for example,  U pull and pay you can get one for $150.  but the catch is you have to pull it yourself.  so expect to pay around $500 for a pulled running engine.

[serpentracer]

oh and don't buy an engine that came from a NON CRASHED vehicle.  chances are very likely it's there because the engine is bad if it's not crashed.

[serpentracer]

How can you be sure? We don't even know what car we're arm-chair wrenching.

that's about the going price for a new crate engine.  I had to buy one for my S/10 and the guy at the counter said about 75% of the engines he sells come in around $1500-2000.  that's with the heads installed and all new gaskets.  no intake, oil pan, valve covers, timing covers etc.

[standout]

I do engines all day everyday. Depending on the year, make, and model $2500 isn't that bad once u include all the fluids, gaskets and original tear down or in this case timing chain replacement.

[Gixxus Christ!]

Should have known by whether it was an interference engine or not that the valves were bent. I'd tell him to get fucked on that $500.

[buxnut]

sorry folks i left out some important info.  its been a long day. 

 

2005 Pontiac G6 with a 3.6l V6.

 

paid for, daily driver, (when its raining and thru the winter) No rust, interior has stains in the back from the two kids.  It has the 5 panel panoramic moon roof.

 

I dont do engines.  I asked him if there was a way to diagnose more damage before the timing chain work, he said that would require tearing down more of the engine and that would be more than the timing chain.  as it turns out the bottom gear on the timing chain sheared the key, fell off and detroyed the chain (thats what he said anyhow). 

 

My intitial thought is to swap the motor out and drive it thru the winter, then in the spring bite the bullet and trade it in/sell it outright on a newer car.  didnt think about the rolling of two paytments into one option mentioned above.  thats a good idea. 

 

he did say it would have a 12 month/12k mile warranty, for what thats worth, i have no idea. 

 

thanks again for all the feedback, it really helps.  the more you know the better i reckon.

[magley64]

Popping the heads off and looking costs more than $500? I wouldn't think so... but then I don't typically take vehicles to mechanics...

[grapesmuggler27]

By the sounds of it I'm going to agree with IP here. He did his duty and you went with the repair, unfortunately younowe him for worknpreformed. I'm sorry but there is a limit. If you come to me and tell me your AC is out of refrigerant and I ohm out the compressor and ohms are good and recharge your unit start it up and the motor is locked up, guess what yoir paying me for the refrigerant. Some things are beyond your normal scope

[standout]

Ummmmm......I'm pretty sure all the v6 g6 engines are pushrods, cam in block.

[buxnut]

Ummmmm......I'm pretty sure all the v6 g6 engines are pushrods, cam in block.

 

 

Ummmmm... whats that mean for me?

 

the wiki article IP refernces speaks to 2006 and newer models, Mines an '05.  all i really know is the 3.5 V6, interference motor?  Cam in block?  No idea what that means. 

 

the more I think about it the more I am leaning towards doing the swap and driving this mother till the wheels fall off.  still better than a car payment in the long run.

 

Thanks again gents. 

[buxnut]

Soooo  am i getting scammed here?  now i am even more confused. 

Edited August 17, 2013 by buxnut

[jporter12]

Not sure. Scammed may be stretching it. You may have a confused service writer. Call the Chevy shop tomorrow and ask them what happens when a timing chain lets go on a 3.5 engine.

 

Form the Chevy shop:  I can't remember the last time I saw a timing chain let go on one of those engines, or other variants of it.  What I HAVE seen is broken camshafts in them.  Not a high failure rate, but more often than seeing broken timing chains.  I'm not doubting the chain failed, I AM questioning the root cause of the failure.

[2talltim]

The engine swap in my Tahoe last year was for a 27000 mile engine and it was going to be $3800 at the Chevy dealer. Ended up costing me a lot less due to owner being a kick ass dude, but that's what it would have cost me

sent via GS3

[standout]

I have never seen a timing chain break in any of the v6 engines, only the dohc 4cyl. What I have seen as jporter mentioned is broken cams and dropped valves. Last one I disassembled dropped a valve into the cylinder and u can imagine what happened after that.

U may not be getting scammed but u are definitely dealing with an uneducated service advisor. If a timing chain let go in the car there would be no engine damage. U would line everything back up, put in a new chain and tensioner and go on about your way. Most of the time with these engines there is at least a rattle, clicking, or strange noise from the engine before they let go.

As far as pricing for the used engine, including the 500 for the timing chain job and a 12/12 warranty for $2300 isn't that bad. I know the place we use for motors charges extra to warranty the engine. Just make sure the warranty covers parts and labor. Some only cover the engine itself not the labor rate to put it in.

Also if u really plan on keeping the car check into a re manufactured engine. We have had some luck with the Jasper's that I have installed in the past. Just see the price difference. It may be worth it.