Scruit Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 http://abcnews.go.com/US/minivan-stop-ends-shoots-fired-high-speed-chase/story?id=20912206 Cliffs: - Driver with kids aged 6-14 in minivan pulled over for speeding- Drivers drives off when officer goes back to cruiser write her a ticket- Driver pulls over again, gets out to speak with cop- Driver runs back to driver's seat and tries to flee- 14yo son gets out and engages in a physical confrontation with the officer- Backup arrives for officer- 14yo and driver get back in minivan- As driver drives away, one of backup officers crouches and fires at the back of the minivan Reserving judgement until I get the answer to two questions:- Did backup officer (who fired shots) know there were kids in the vehicle?- What was the backup officer shooting at? Tires or driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsvRidr Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Reserving judgment until I get answer questions -why in the hell would a mother place her children ages 6-18 in such a dangerous situation _why would a mother in the presence of her children not comply with lawful orders a law enforcement officer _drug paraphernalia.... Shocker! -mother of the year finalist? -were they trying to give her another new mexico roadside colonoscopy? Firing@the vehicle that was leaving and posed no intimate threat is hard to justify. I guess they could claim they felt that it leaving possessed a life threatening situation to others sent from a treestand on the back forty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnor Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Reserving judgment is a good thing in this case I think.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I am curious why the officer didn't handle the 14yr old when it got physical? After that, I would like to know why the backup would fire at a vehicle speeding away? That doesn't sound like a threat at the time, more like a chase, even if there aren't kids in the car, unless someone brandished a firearm, then it is what it is. I would have done the same, kids or not. In the end I will go home at the end of the night to my kid and wife, when someone has done what this person does, if they show a firearm, I don't care if they do, or the ones with them, at that point it's their fault(mother or kid brandishing weapon). Casualty of battle in that case. Glad no one was killed especially a kid, but wtf was that lady thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I don't believe anything they are charged with warrants shooting at a fleeing vehicle. This is not the movies. Shooting out a tire in this scenario is unlikely and not worth the risk of harming/killing anyone in that van, driver included That being said I believe the book should be thrown at the mother and the son. They created that crap situation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Looks like he was firing at the tires to me. Dont know if thats justifiable or not by law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Looks like he was firing at the tires to me. Dont know if thats justifiable or not by law? Maybe with a shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 screw reserving judgement. Seems like with THAT mother the kids were in no more danger being shot at than they likely live on a daily basis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnor Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 After seeing the video again, i would say the officers were way over reacting.....YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 Dude this was in Mexico, of course this was legal/justified in Mexico, you truly never know who is who, and what is what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Dude this was in Mexico, of course this was legal/justified in Mexico, you truly never know who is who, and what is what. New Mexico.... It's a state in the United States... also, Why didn't the officer just reach in and take the keys out... that would have stopped the fleeing. Edited November 18, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnone Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) I don't see how shooting at a fleeing vehicle in this case is justified. Rules for the use deadly force don't include unarmed pain in the ass bad mothers running from the cops. This nation has a serious problem with escalating shootings from both civilians and law enforcement. Kids getting shot for holding toy guns. We ran around with bb and toy guns all the time in the 70's and 80's. Getting shot by a real gun for having a toy gun was unthinkable. Not all change is good. Edited November 18, 2013 by turnone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapesmuggler27 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't see how shooting at a fleeing vehicle in this case is justified. Rules for the use deadly force don't include unarmed pain in the ass bad mothers running from the cops. This nation has a serious problem with escalating shootings from both civilians and law enforcement. Kids getting shot for holding toy guns. We ran around with bb and toy guns all the time in the 70's and 80's. Getting shot by a real gun for having a toy gun was unthinkable. Not all change is good.I will play the devils advocate here, do you know at any point she was unarmed? You have already been attacked by her and her son amd the are fleeing again, when do they become not only a danger to themselfs but the public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 New Mexico.... It's a state in the United States... also, Why didn't the officer just reach in and take the keys out... that would have stopped the fleeing.Ahhh, the NEWS station yesterday said MEXICO and had MEXICO on the screen, never read the story just saw it on the news. Obviously I know New Mexico is a state, believe it or not, I'm actually pretty smart and highly educated, just don't give a shit about acting like it on OR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnone Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I will play the devils advocate here, do you know at any point she was unarmed? You have already been attacked by her and her son amd the are fleeing again, when do they become not only a danger to themselfs but the public? Did she threaten to use a weapon? Did she show a weapon? If neither of those, then you can't reasonable assume she was armed.Did she use the vehicle as a weapon? Or just fleeing? You can't just shoot at people who are trying to get away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Ahhh, the NEWS station yesterday said MEXICO and had MEXICO on the screen, never read the story just saw it on the news. Obviously I know New Mexico is a state, believe it or not, I'm actually pretty smart and highly educated, just don't give a shit about acting like it on OR. I figured you knew NM was a state, I was just being condescending for comic effect... Edited November 18, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 I figured you knew NM was a state, I was just being condescending for comic effect... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 No justification at all for firing on a fleeing vehicle when such action was not immediately threatening the life or well being of the officers or any uninvolved civilians. Everyone makes mistakes in the heat of the moment though and the officer is very lucky he did not strike one of the children. That said, the mom is despicable and has no business being a parent. I feel bad for the kids in all of this. I'm sure it was traumatic for them and it may land them in foster homes depending on what the dad(s) situation is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 No justification at all for firing on a fleeing vehicle when such action was not immediately threatening the life or well being of the officers or any uninvolved civilians. Everyone makes mistakes in the heat of the moment though and the officer is very lucky he did not strike one of the children. That said, the mom is despicable and has no business being a parent. I feel bad for the kids in all of this. I'm sure it was traumatic for them and it may land them in foster homes depending on what the dad(s) situation is. Every department has their own policies on when it's appropriate to discharge firearms. Locally, I know that virtually all of the Northeastern Ohio departments are instructed to never fire AT or FROM a moving vehicle, unless it is necessary to prevent loss of life (like when a car is charging toward an officer). According to radio reports, that is not the policy in New Mexico. While I tend to agree that it's not worth shooting at a fleeing vehicle, I believe the officer's position is (or will be) that he was shooting at the tires in an attempt to avoid a high-speed chase. A chase is inherently dangerous for all of the vehicle's occupants, so there is some merit to preventing one before it starts. Additionally, chases tend to end with the police performing a pit maneuver - also pretty dangerous for the vehicle's occupants. Arguably much more dangerous than shots being fired at the wheels below 25 mph. That would be my theory of the case if I were defending the officer anyway. But without breaking any protocol, he's unlikely to face any charges or disciplinary action. The occupants of the vehicle on the other hand... Just off the top of my head: Mom should be charged with:- felony fleeing- obstruction of official police business- resisting arrest- possession of drug paraphernalia- child endangerment- contributing to the delinquency of a minor The 14 yr old son should be charged with:- assaulting an officer (that's a felony of the fifth degree)- obstruction of official police business and a handful of lesser offenses, if they feel like it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodninja420 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Give me a break. Ive been on the range at the same time officers are doing their twice-yearly "qualifying" with sidearms. The idea of cops actually safely putting rounds into the tire of a moving car is a flipping joke of a hollywood fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 So what is more dangerous? a) Shooting the tires of a vehicle beginning to accelerate directly away from you from starting at 10'b) Allowing the vehicle to initiate a high-speed pursuitc) Allowing the driver to drive away, but you can identify and go arrest her laterd) Allowing the driver to drive away scot free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baptizo Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 My God, what a bunch of stupid fucktards and that includes the officer who thought it was a good idea to fire his weapon at the fleeing vehicle. Let me guess, he was upset because they weren't allowed to take them in for cavity searches for drugs which is SOP for NM cops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) Give me a break. Ive been on the range at the same time officers are doing their twice-yearly "qualifying" with sidearms. The idea of cops actually safely putting rounds into the tire of a moving car is a flipping joke of a hollywood fantasy.I agree, but that doesn't mean that them making the attempt is reckless. It just means their likelihood of success is low. Low is better than nonexistent.The fact that the vehicle wasn't actually hit seems to show that his actions really weren't that dangerous, no? Edited November 20, 2013 by redkow97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 I must be the only one upset that he didn't strike the van's gas tank and erupt it into a ball of fire.... That woman seems like a drain on society and her little mini mes will grow up and be the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) Every department has their own policies on when it's appropriate to discharge firearms. Locally, I know that virtually all of the Northeastern Ohio departments are instructed to never fire AT or FROM a moving vehicle, unless it is necessary to prevent loss of life (like when a car is charging toward an officer). Doesn't matter what their policy is, it was unnecessary and wholly inappropriate. This wasn't a serial killer or mass murderer on their own in a car. It was a mom and kids with lesser offenses. I must be the only one upset that he didn't strike the van's gas tank and erupt it into a ball of fire.... That woman seems like a drain on society and her little mini mes will grow up and be the sameMythbusters showed this doesn't happen...only in movies. Although it would be cool. Edited November 20, 2013 by ScubaCinci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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