magley64 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Interesting to see How this will affect prices, local economy, and the service industry in general... but we will have to wait a little while. http://fox8.com/2013/12/17/11-50-minimum-wage-coming-in-one-maryland-county/ http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/12/17/1150-minimum-wage-passed-by-DC-city-council/4181387316321/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie14 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Better the locals than the feds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I just keep coming back to the same question: Why? What skills do minimum wage workers have that warrant greater pay? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Skills be damned. Inflation is a bitch. I won't get out of bed for less than $20 an hour. $11.50 is a reasonable minimum wage. It at least puts you above $450 per week.I'm not a fan of mandatory minimums, for any reason, but if we're going to legislate minimum hourly wages, let's make it worth doing. see my comments on the article... I couldnt' resist. I really don't think increasing the minimum wage is a great option. It will improve the lives of the best un-skilled workers, but I think it makes the other 80% an unjustifiable expense. Realistically, the best un-skilled workers were gaining skills, and hoping to be promoted to a better position anyway. All this does is make a "minimum wage" job less undesirable for people who already have greater skills, but are not paid what they feel their skills are worth. For example: While I was waiting for bar results, I was making $0/hour. I didn't bother getting a minimum wage job for those few months. I was able to do side-work, apply for salaried positions, and get things done around my house. Those things were worth more than $7.25/hour to me. Had minimum wage been $11.50/hour, that would have been a RAISE from when I was working as a law clerk. (I was paid $11/hour - not because it's a low-skill position, but because 4,000 other local law students would also have been happy to work for that wage, and benefit from the experience I was gaining. That's capitalism...) Anyway, my point is that had I been able to go work for $11.50/hour rather than $7.25, all those minimum wage workers would now have been competing with ME, and my educational background. How do you think they would have faired? I have cashier experience from when I was a teenager. I have sales and IT experience from past 'real' jobs. I have a bachelors degree, and a J.D. Any employer who looks at my application, and the typical minimum-wage worker's application is going to realize 2 things immediately: 1) I am qualified, reliable, and easy to train.2) I will not be planning to keep this job for any longer than I have to. #2 is obviously a draw-back to hiring someone over-qualified, but frankly, I don't think it would (or should) dissuade most employers. What's the turnover rate for their existing minimum-wage staff? I would guess 75% of those people don't last a year before they're fired, stop showing up, or leave for some other reason. If you're only going to get 6 months out of a minimum wage employee, why not let them be 6 months of competent work, and have them give you 2 weeks notice at the end of it? Edited December 18, 2013 by redkow97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I just keep coming back to the same question: Why? What skills do minimum wage workers have that warrant greater pay? What skills to minimum wage workers posses that warrant ANY pay? My opinion: If a person works 40 hours a week in good faith at any job, they should earn enough money to be above the poverty line for their area (even if only slightly above).If an employer feels your contribution is warranted for full time, they should pay you a living wage for your time.if an employer doesn't want to pay you a living wage, then they should do your job themselves or just not have that job done anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) It just raises the cost of goods and services (you don't think the companies will absorb the cost do you?) so the people who are now making more will now be paying more along with everyone else. Edited December 18, 2013 by ScubaCinci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) It just raises the cost of goods and services (you don't think the companies will absorb the cost do you?) so the people who are now making more will now be paying more along with everyone else. Marginally, but it's not a 1-1 inflationary effect I.E. Minimum wage goes up 10%, everything costs 10% more. The math works out to a few pennies on the dollar based on the information I've seen... your cheeseburger won't suddenly cost double... what will happen is that some working people will suddenly have some disposable income, and will no longer have a need for public assistance. this would increase consumer spending, thereby boosting the economy and chiseling away at public assistance spending. Win-Win. Edited December 18, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Marginally, but it's not a 1-1 inflationary effect I.E. Minimum wage goes up 10%, everything costs 10% more. The math works out to a few pennies on the dollar based on the information I've seen... your cheeseburger won't suddenly cost double... what will happen is that some working people will suddenly have some disposable income, and will no longer have a need for public assistance. this would increase consumer spending, thereby boosting the economy and chiseling away at public assistance spending. Win-Win. True but what about the people that are making $11 now, do they get a raise? They should, they are worth more than minimum wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 True but what about the people that are making $11 now, do they get a raise? They should, they are worth more than minimum wage. They will get at least 11.50... or a pink slip. They aren't necessarily worth more than minimum wage, they are worth 11.00 according to capitolistic purists... they were worth more than 7.25, but aren't necessarily worth more than "minimum wage"... If they don't supply more than 11.00 an hour in value addition to the company then they will probably be let go... the problem is that many people are not making an equivalent salary to the value they bring to a company, some people are overpaid, many many more are underpaid. this is how "profit" is generated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I blame Obama. Well I blame, Ohama, Bush 2, Clinton, Bush 1. In that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 They will get at least 11.50... or a pink slip. They aren't necessarily worth more than minimum wage, they are worth 11.00 according to capitolistic purists... they were worth more than 7.25, but aren't necessarily worth more than "minimum wage"... If they don't supply more than 11.00 an hour in value addition to the company then they will probably be let go... the problem is that many people are not making an equivalent salary to the value they bring to a company, some people are overpaid, many many more are underpaid. this is how "profit" is generated. Sorry, I meant $11.50. I disagree, they are worth more than minimum wage. Why bust my ass doing a job when I can go make minimum wage at mcdonalds for the same pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Marginally, but it's not a 1-1 inflationary effect I.E. Minimum wage goes up 10%, everything costs 10% more. The math works out to a few pennies on the dollar based on the information I've seen... your cheeseburger won't suddenly cost double... what will happen is that some working people will suddenly have some disposable income, and will no longer have a need for public assistance. this would increase consumer spending, thereby boosting the economy and chiseling away at public assistance spending. Win-Win.Where did I say it would increase commensurately?Minimum wage jobs (i.e. fast food workers) aren't meant for careers and supporting families. These are jobs that should be occupied by students and people entering the workforce unskilled. The problem is, there aren't enough career type jobs to meet demand. So, the issue is not the wage, it's the lack of good jobs. Raising the min dramatically is not the solution, only a substandard band-aid that doesn't let the wound breathe and causes infection. I have more metaphors on demand if you'd like Edited December 18, 2013 by ScubaCinci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 The problem I see is when they keep raising it. At what point is college even worth it (not saying it is now but that's another discussion). I mean if minimum wage goes to $20 and that's all I'm going to get with college, why go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 My opinion: If a person works 40 hours a week in good faith at any job, they should earn enough money to be above the poverty line for their area (even if only slightly above).If an employer feels your contribution is warranted for full time, they should pay you a living wage for your time.if an employer doesn't want to pay you a living wage, then they should do your job themselves or just not have that job done anymore. I hear this argument a lot, but I don't understand the logic behind it. Not every job is meant to support a person. The minimum wage was not created to keep everyone above the poverty line. I had minimum wage jobs in high school and college. I was not working 40 hours a week, because I was going to school full-time, and my employer didn't need me full time. But during summers, I worked for $9.25/hour through a temp agency. You know what "qualified" me for that job? Passing a drug test, and showing up on time every day. That's it. That place (America's Body Company - Great Lakes Truck Equipment, if anyone cares) was begging for people to apply to work on their assembly lines. They were paying the temp agency $11/hour in 2002, and the worker was bringing in $9.25 of that. I had a similar experience working for Eaton Electrical the following summer. Both of those positions were full-time, and I was trained on the job. Yes, I was/am modestly mechanically inclined, but they didn't know that when they hired me. All they wanted was a clean piss-test and reliable attendance. Those jobs are out there - maybe not as many of them as there were in 2002 and 2003, but if I was able to find them over summer vacation, someone else with even mild motivation should be able to find them if they're looking year-round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Sorry, I meant $11.50. I disagree, they are worth more than minimum wage. Why bust my ass doing a job when I can go make minimum wage at mcdonalds for the same pay. Because you're building a resume for your next job. You're not just working for your paycheck (although some people are), you're building a skill-set and body of work that qualifies you for a promotion, or a better job when/if you feel like leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 The problem I see is when they keep raising it. At what point is college even worth it (not saying it is now but that's another discussion). I mean if minimum wage goes to $20 and that's all I'm going to get with college, why go? This is what I was trying to point out with my law school example. Not only does it become "why should I go to college if I can get $20/hour w/ a high school education, or less?" For employers, it also becomes "why should I hire someone with a HS education or less when people with Bachelors and Masters degrees are applying for the same positions?" And yes, I honestly would consider flipping burgers forever if minimum wage got to $35/hour or so. Especially if they paid overtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 The majority of it comes down to the fact that people need to live within their means. My wife lived on her own making $6.00 an hour and did just fine. It comes down to the fact that not everyone needs half the shit they think they do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Because you're building a resume for your next job. You're not just working for your paycheck (although some people are), you're building a skill-set and body of work that qualifies you for a promotion, or a better job when/if you feel like leaving. I'll agree with this, but there are a bunch of lazy ass people out there that really don't deserve what they are paid now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) The majority of it comes down to the fact that people need to live within their means. My wife lived on her own making $6.00 an hour and did just fine. It comes down to the fact that not everyone needs half the shit they think they do. yeah, who needs heat? or health insurance? or food? Edited December 18, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 You're right about lazy people. When I was young and stupid I got married at 19 and had a kid. I was making $5.50 and hour so what did I do? I got a second job literally digging ditches (landscaping, etc) to make ends meet until I could do better. There were days that I skipped meals so my wife and kid could eat. Now I make six figures because I worked my ass off and because my parents taught me the value of hard work and persistence. I'm tired of the whiners, most of whom bring doom and gloom on themselves because of poor decision making but do nothing to better themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I'll agree with this, but there are a bunch of lazy ass people out there that really don't deserve what they are paid now. That's a management problem, not a fair wage problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 That's a management problem, not a fair wage problem... I agree, and is what leads many to conclude that all minimum wage earners are lazy and deserve their plight. I knew a number of lazy upper-five-figures I.T. guys at a prior employer that should have been shit-canned ages ago - you could have given their job to a half dozen motivated total newbs and get twice as much productivity within 6 months, but their management just wouldn't have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) It wasn't my intention to imply that all min wage earners are lazy...certainly there are lazy people all along the pay scale. The lazy people whine about it and the others do something about it, like better themselves Edited December 18, 2013 by ScubaCinci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 yeah, who needs heat? or health insurance? or food?She had all of that. It can be done, you just aren't going to get the max cable package, $100 cell phone bill, 60" tv. You have to live within what you make abd it's doable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Sudden price controls generate outcomes you don't want. I like the proposals that do this in a measured way over time. Do it all at once and you may get a big push for automation. Easy to make it work when businesses are awash in cash or can borrow money cheap. Fast food will look a lot like pay-at-the-pump gas stations and u-scan grocery checkout lanes. Push the button on the flat panel and out squirts your food.Anybody remember the guy that would pump your gas, clean your windshield and check the oil? Yeah, me neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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