Minimum Wage to 11.50 in a few places... including DC

[smashweights]

yeah, who needs heat? or health insurance? or food?

 

Funny thing is, you jest, but not everyone needs to pay for their own heat, health insurance, or food.  They're called teenagers and they're not worth $11.50/hour.  Geezus I made $5.15 minimum wage a little over a decade ago and I was happy with it. This is more than double in that time!  I can't even imagine making $11.50/hour when I worked at Subway.  Hell, $11.50/hour at 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year is $24k/year, which is about what my wife and I each make now and we live comfortably well above poverty conditions.  Geezus I make $24k/year and have a new Italian motorcycle that's paid off!

 

Furthermore, why does 40 hours of work magically mean you should have enough to live on?  If you really think about it, 40 hours/week is less than 1/4 of the time you spend in a week(24hr/day x 7 days = 168, 40/168=.238.  Maybe our traditional clutch to the 40 hour work week is really the problem here.  This is coming from a guy who's working 60-80 hours a week.

Edited December 19, 2013 by smashweights

[magley64]

You have a point. These laws have an under 19 exception in some cases...

But like it or not we as a society have established that 40 hours constitutes a standard work week...

One of the side effects I actually like is what pauly mentioned. This would make "work" a lot more appealing vs welfare...and give the people who can work more incentive to do so.

[drc32-0]

I'll agree with this, but there are a bunch of lazy ass people out there that really don't deserve what they are paid now.

Edited December 19, 2013 by drc32-0

[redkow97]

yeah, who needs heat? or health insurance? or food?

 

I agree that everyone needs those things, but I do not agree that everyone on public assistance or even everyone making minimum wage makes those things their first priority.

 

I encounter a LOT of lower income individuals in the course of my job.  While Mom usually works as a cashier or a server at IHOP, the kid may be fined or assessed costs separately.  Mom literally said "we missed the first court date because I couldn't afford gas to get here, and we missed the bus."  I believe her.  What I find infuriating is that the kid (when he finally did show up for a later hearing) told the Magistrate that he couldn't pay a fine, because he has two phones.  "I had the GS3, but when the new iPhone came out, I wanted that, so I have 2 phone bills that are about $175/month total."

 

There's a lot of that kind of shit.

 

Kids whose parents claim they can't afford to feed them report that their neighbor stole their X-Box - because you can't afford food, but Call of Duty is a necessity. 

 

 

I'm not saying that everyone abuses the system, but those who do don't even realize it half the time.  Their priorities are all out of whack.  It's like the line from "white men can't jump" where Woody tells Wesley  he's so busy trying to look like he's winning, that he doesn't even realize he's losing. 

[redkow97]

I think the major disconnect is that some people think "minimum wage" and "livable wage" should be one in the same.

 

I think wages should be "fair" for the job being performed, and that the competition for a given job influences that.  A lot.

[smashweights]

I agree that everyone needs those things, but I do not agree that everyone on public assistance or even everyone making minimum wage makes those things their first priority.

 

I encounter a LOT of lower income individuals in the course of my job.  While Mom usually works as a cashier or a server at IHOP, the kid may be fined or assessed costs separately.  Mom literally said "we missed the first court date because I couldn't afford gas to get here, and we missed the bus."  I believe her.  What I find infuriating is that the kid (when he finally did show up for a later hearing) told the Magistrate that he couldn't pay a fine, because he has two phones.  "I had the GS3, but when the new iPhone came out, I wanted that, so I have 2 phone bills that are about $175/month total."

 

There's a lot of that kind of shit.

 

Kids whose parents claim they can't afford to feed them report that their neighbor stole their X-Box - because you can't afford food, but Call of Duty is a necessity. 

 

 

I'm not saying that everyone abuses the system, but those who do don't even realize it half the time.  Their priorities are all out of whack.  It's like the line from "white men can't jump" where Woody tells Wesley  he's so busy trying to look like he's winning, that he doesn't even realize he's losing. 

 

I've seen this in hospitals a lot.  Folks can't afford health insurance or co-pays but can afford an iPhone and AT&T data plan.

[madcat6183]

I understand that whole "hard knocks" education. It's an honorable way to educate yourself. No shame in taking the dirt road, but a little leg-up can't hurt. Fuel is the lowest it's been in years, and it still takes $60+ to fill my tank.. and I average 15-17mpg with my truck. Food is ridiculously priced (thanks FedGov) and working parents might as well stay home with the cost of child care nowadays. Listen, I'm all for self-reliance, but asking a man to dig a ditch 8-10 hours a day, 5-7 days a week, for $7.50 an hour is fucking criminal. Yes, some jobs shouldn't pay higher wages "just because", but I'd rather see minimum wage increased versus just handing people money for nothing. At least somebody is working for that money. I'm not going to play my fiddle, but I remember Ramen noodles and $6 cheese pizzas needing to last at least 3 days to be affordable. Did I learn how to properly live within my means? Yeah, I had to. I also remember how much of a huge difference it made when my hourly wage was raised by a dollar an hour.

 

I'd much rather see minimum wages increased to livable standards than see some fat, lazy bitch soak up my tax money to sit in her air-conditioned apartment stuffing Cheetos in her face for free.

Actually a good point comes from this.  If we raise minimum wage, will it actually get any of the "lazy" people who do just sit at home and live off the system off their couches and job hunting?  Not a chance, won't matter, there will always be leaches sucking the $ that others are paying for programs intended to do good, and just being abused.

 

Not directed at IP, just making a general statement. 

[Tonik]

The real problem is that minimum wage jobs are now the primary source of income for a great many people. Back in the old days when most of you were still swimming around in your dads gonads minimum wage jobs were for us kids (at the time). It's how we got beer gas and drug money. Now with single uneducated moms trying to get by that is all they can get, or even educated people that can't get jobs in this great economy of ours.

 

We are not creating enough high paying jobs.

[smashweights]

The real problem is that minimum wage jobs are now the primary source of income for a great many people. Back in the old days when most of you were still swimming around in your dads gonads minimum wage jobs were for us kids (at the time). It's how we got beer gas and drug money. Now with single uneducated moms trying to get by that is all they can get, or even educated people that can't get jobs in this great economy of ours.

 

We are not creating enough high paying jobs.

 

Are we not creating enough high paying jobs or are we not effectively getting people the training to move into these positions?  Or maybe too many people are pursuing training in things that simply have no jobs?  I've got plenty of friends who wanted to go into teaching only to find there's no job opportunities in that field.  Or folks getting BS degrees from colleges in art theory etc that end up having "college degrees" but can't find a job cause no one cares about their degree.  We do a decent job, IMO, of pushing people to getting advanced degrees, but not educating them in which degrees are in demand and which will open up opportunities for them.

Edited December 19, 2013 by smashweights

[smccrory]

I think it's both. I would never steer someone towards commercial aviation, for example, unless they wanted to be an aircraft and power plant mechanic.

[ScubaCinci]

The real problem is that minimum wage jobs are now the primary source of income for a great many people. Back in the old days when most of you were still swimming around in your dads gonads minimum wage jobs were for us kids (at the time). It's how we got beer gas and drug money. Now with single uneducated moms trying to get by that is all they can get, or even educated people that can't get jobs in this great economy of ours.

 

We are not creating enough high paying jobs.

That's pretty much what I was saying.

 

I blame Obama and the Keebler Elves.

[Tonik]

It's all of the above.

 

I should rephrase my statement. We are not creating enough high paying jobs for uneducated labor. Used to be you could get a job at a factory and make a pretty decent middle class income with just a high school diploma. Heck, even without a high school diploma. Those jobs are gone. Jumping ahead to the next response I think I will get....yea people need to get an education now to get a good job. So in response let me ask, how does the child of a single mom in the Cleveland School District get a good education? In the news today it shows the Cleveland School District is the second worst in the country. That there has not been ANY improvement in the education in that district in 10 years.

 

The children in that district are doomed. Fucking doomed, they have no chance. None. Yea, some of them will rise above it. But most of them will be left behind, and they will have more children who will be in the same boat. We now have institutionalized poverty and lack of education, generational poverty and lack of education. You/We can blame anyone we want. Blame the parents, blame the teachers, blame drugs, blame crime, blame guns, heck blame the minimum wage. Personally I don't care anymore whose fault it is. I only want to hear about solutions. That said, I have no idea how to fix it.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Tonik

[smashweights]

Another issue is people burying themselves with undergraduate education debt.  I have a few friends who decided to go to expensive private schools for their BS or BA and finished with $100k+ in undergraduate debt.  There's just no justifying that decision, IMO, and I don't think recent HS grads really understand the long-term financial implications of going to a state school like Wright State for $8,500/year vs a private school like University of Dayton for $36,000/year.

[smashweights]

It's all of the above.

 

I should rephrase my statement. We are not creating enough high paying jobs for uneducated labor. Used to be you could get a job at a factory and make a pretty decent middle class income with just a high school diploma. Heck, even without a high school diploma. Those jobs are gone. Jumping ahead to the next response I think I will get....yea people need to get an education now to get a good job. So in response let me ask, how does the child of a single mom in the Cleveland School District get a good education? In the news today it shows the Cleveland School District is the second worst in the country. That there has not been ANY improvement in the education in that district in 10 years.

 

The children in that district are doomed. Fucking doomed, they have no chance. None. Yea, some of them will rise above it. But most of them will be left behind, and they will have more children who will be in the same boat. We now have institutionalized poverty and lack of education, generational poverty and lack of education. You/We can blame anyone we want. Blame the parents, blame the teachers, blame drugs, blame crime, blame guns, heck blame the minimum wage. Personally I don't care anymore whose fault it is. I only want to hear about solutions. That said, I have no idea how to fix it.

 

Those really are the tough situations that I really feel bad for because, IMO, it's not the kids fault.  They have parents that don't emphasize the importance of education, teachers that don't give a shit, in a class of kids who collectively don't care either.  It's damn near impossible to get the right guidance, but the opportunities are still ripe if they can get directed appropriately because schools love giving out scholarships to kids that come from challenging backgrounds.  I really don't know the solution either, but in Dayton I know you can voucher your kid out of City of Dayton schools, but even that creates problems, you get all the kids who get expelled from CoD schools now going to nearby decent schools and dragging them down and kids who are above average who's parents care enough to leave CoD schools to try and get their kid a better education, further worsening the performance of the school district they left by taking the few higher achieving kids/families out.

[blue03636]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[smccrory]

I'll just leave this here.

 

Very interesting - I've bookmarked it for later.  Thanks for sharing the link.

[Gump]

Price of goods will simply react accordingly.

[redkow97]

Tonik, I still think you can start as a minimum wage cashier and work your way up to produce manager or beyond at a grocery store. The problem isn't (only) a lack of jobs, it's that people expect to start off as produce manager without working their way up.

How many of us (or our parents) started working in their current position? My dad worked at a department store when I was born.

[Tonik]

Very valid point. My mom started as an ER nurse and worked up to Director of nursing and then the head of the while damn hospital. No college, that was back when you only needed a two year nursing degree. And it was a big hospital.

[chevysoldier]

Now there's even less incentive to become more skilled and move up the chain. If I can make 11.50 flipping burgers, why try and do any better?

[magley64]

Now there's even less incentive to become more skilled and move up the chain. If I can make 11.50 flipping burgers, why try and do any better?

Wow, you must have been raised by some imaginary lazy asses if this is your imaginary viewpoint... or you just have low aspirations.

If 11.50 an hour is all you've ever dreamed of, and makes all your wishes come true, then yes, why try to do any better? Take pride in your burger flipping and enjoy your life as such.

Personally, I have higher aspirations. It doesn't matter if minimum wage was $20 an hour, I'm still pursuing the career I've chosen, and doing the best damn job I can at it.

It's not just about the money, money is just the currency I need to pay for things. If I had no need for any more money, I'd still be doing what I do... just on my own time and on projects I chose.

[magley64]

Tonik, I still think you can start as a minimum wage cashier and work your way up to produce manager or beyond at a grocery store. The problem isn't (only) a lack of jobs, it's that people expect to start off as produce manager without working their way up.

How many of us (or our parents) started working in their current position? My dad worked at a department store when I was born.

Sure, if you can get the current produce manager to quit... at the grocery store I started in he had been the produce manager for 8 years, and wasn't retiring for another 30 or 40. The store manager had been there 18 years, and wasn't retiring for another 25 or 30.

So if you want to keep bagging groceries and wrapping strawberries for 30 years until you get your "big break" be my guest. This is exactly the reason I finally decided that I needed to go to college, I wasn't working in a grocery store the rest of my life so in a few decades I might finally crack the poverty line.

As for my dad, he started in his current company 20 years ago, he was a press operator... the job kind of sucked, but he made a living wage, and got incentive rate on top of that (make 110% of "rate" earn 110% of your pay). He excelled at his job, cracked 200% on some occasions, and made a decent living. A few years ago a maintenance position opened up, and now we jockey back and forth over who makes more money. I'm extraordinarily proud of my dad for the work he's done, and grateful for the opportunities, and lessons he's provided me. He is proud of me for the things I've accomplished with those opportunities and lessons.

[bloodninja420]

Price of goods will simply react accordingly.

7 words, and the truest thing said in the thread.

Winners: a select few insiders already holding a job that pays minimum wage.

Losers: anyone who buys things. Entry-level job seekers who dont yet hold a job.

[DAC]

7 words, and the truest thing said in the thread.

Winners: a select few insiders already holding a job that pays minimum wage.

Losers: anyone who buys things. Entry-level job seekers who dont yet hold a job.

Losers also include entry-level job holders that get automated out of a job.

[smccrory]

Losers also include entry-level job holders that get automated out of a job.

Rerbats r tak'n r jaabs!