Drunken road rage crash - Lessons learned

[Scruit]

Input from police / EMS folks would be of great value here.

 

(Sorry this is so big.  your momma didn't seem to mind)

 

First, the video.  The crash is too far away to see except the plume of snow...

 

 

 

Cliffs:  S10 tried to force a F150 off the road in a road rage incident but only wound up wrecking himself into the median and getting stuck.

 

I didn't see the events leading up to the plume of snow, but an independent witness said: 

 

 

Ford F150 (left lane) and Chevy S10 (right lane) westbound on 36/36 3mi east of Delaware.  The F150 passed the S10 and merged with more than enough room.  The S10 got into the left lane, passed the F150, cut over right again too close and brake-checked the f150.  For a short time the S10 actively prevented the F150 from passing by switching lanes and brake-checking while trying to slow the F150 down.  Eventually the F150 was able to get into the left lane alongside the S10 (which was in the right lane) and was attempting to pass when the S10 swerved left in an apparent attempt to push the F150 into the median. The F150 braked and the S10 effectively PITted himself against the F150 and lost control himself, crashing into the median which was 18" deep in show.  S10 became stuck, F150 and independent witness stopped in the left lane.

 

I got stopped and went to check on the driver of the S10.  No injuries. The F150 driver joined us and the two drivers started arguing angrily.  I got them both to calm down and asked if they needed to exchange insurance details (I didn't see the collision with the F150 and thought he was just a witness).  When F150 said there had been contact I sent him over to a parking are about 200 yards down the road.  I asked the second car if she was a witness and sent he over to the same parking area when she said yes.  The S10 was apparently will stuck so I told him to sit tight and I'd call for help.

 

I moved my car out of the roadway and set up flares, then called the highway patrol and reported a non-injury two-car accident, not blocking the road but stuck in median, requesting patrolman for accident report and peacekeeping.

 

The F150 driver was still angry and reported the S10 driver was drunk or something.  I spoke with the witness and got the 30-second description of the accident above.  I spoke with the F150 driver and got the same story.  I told them highway patrol were coming and said I'd go speak with the S10 driver.  Once I got there is took me about 5 seconds to decide he was very, very drunk.  He was wobbling when he was standing, he asked me the same set of questions several times, including;"What happened?"  There was a distinct altered mental state which was not from any head injury.  He then decided he was going to get his truck unstuck and "I promise I'll park over by the other guy."   I then spent the next 15 minutes talking with him trying to get him to stay at the scene.  I never indicated that I thought he was drunk, nor did I argue his account of the accident (The F150 rear-ended him with no warning).  When he got angry I redirected the conversation over to something innocuous like commenting on how little damage the truck had suffered, or humoring him about his version of events while telling him I didn't see the accident ("If he rear-ended you make sure you tell the police that.").   He told me he was a firefighter and told me that I wasn't needed several times and that I should go.  When he asked why I wasn't leaving I said because my (LED) road flares were out for safety and visibility and I needed to stay until I could collect them again after the tow truck had arrived.  He kept saying things like; "You're an EMR, I'm a firefigher, you know what the deal is, you know how things are, just go away."

 

When the police arrived he was arrested and carted off to jail. 

 

Lessons learned:

 

- Even though I have 5 pens in my car, only one of them worked!  More pens?  Or different kinds of pens?  They are cheap ballpoints.

- I had gloves and a fleece in the car and they are great for walking around but after 30 mins in the 10F cold I was very uncomfortable and shivering too much to write anything down until I got back in my car to warm up.  Need to leave a much bigger coat in the car.

- I assume that confronting him about being drunk or about his story being BS or about him causing the accident would have been a bad move.  My intent was to just keep him calm long enough for the police to arrive.

- He announced he was going to get his truck out and tried to run around to the driver's door.  Knowing how drunk he was and concerned he was going to flee I tried to open the passenger door and take him keys but the door was locked, he came running back around demanding to know why I did that and I told him I was gonna turn his engine off because his clutch was burning up (it actually was). I don't think he believed me but all he did was mouth off about it.

- At one point he was standing on the fog line of 36/37 and in his drunken state he started to topple backwards into the path of a semi truck.  I grabbed him by the shoulder and pulled him upright and away from the truck.  This pissed him off enough that he called the police himself and reported that I assaulted him.  I assume I should not simply let him fall into traffic, but he wouldn't listen to me when I told him to get away from traffic. 

- When he again tried to get into his truck and get away I just stepped out the way.  I'm not getting hurt over an insurance claim.  I could see he was turning against me as he figured out I was stalling him for the police so I stepped out of the way and let him do what he wanted, while at the same time trying to keep the conversation going wherever possible.  I don't know if there a a good single answer for "when do you give up".

- I was acutely aware of my ability to defend myself (or inability) being aware that I was not armed except for a pocket knife, and we were standing between a lane of traffic and a 2' snow drift.  My only saving grace was that he was clearly too drunk to run effectively and I had a clear path to escape (down the fog line away from his vehicle) regardless of my MA training, I am NOT going to get into a fight next to an active highway!

 

So basically, other than learning that I'm not as prepared as I think I am, I also got a chance to dust off some of my "dealing with drunk people" skills that I honed while working as a night barman in a downtown bar during college.  It's just like dealing with people who are angry at someone else, or a situation, but must be handled carefully lest they become angry at me.  The only difference being that they can switch to being angry at me very quickly. 

Edited February 2, 2014 by Scruit

[snot]

Why not use a pencil or record the conversation with your phone then play it back instead of pens. You could place different brands/types in the freezer to test too.

I keep a blanket in my car this could help in your case too. You never know if someone else might need it. Even though I do not plan on walking miles in the cold, I always dress as if I am. Again, never know when you will have to. I remove layers once I get to my destination if necessary.

[Scruit]

I have a few space blankets in my kit.  The pen was for the police report so I don't think they'd want pencil.  I heard good things about the fisher space pen. 

 

I also need to do the following:

 

 - Put the non-emergency phone numbers of the police departments for the areas I drive through in my phone.

 - Have a pad of paper in my car to write stuff down with.

 - I have a cheap gopro knockoff that I can set recording and clip to my belt to capture voices etc to make sure what I report is accurate.  Just need to leave it in my car plugged in to charge

 - I need to seek advice on how and where it is appropriate to stop.  I don't have safety lights on my car, just hazards, so I don't like to stop in the roadway.  In this case the road was blocked at first but as soon as it was clear everyone was uninjured the priority was to get the cars out of the road.  My EMR training had very little specifics on vehicle positioning except to 'protect the scene from further danger' but given that everyoen was unhurt we were *creating* the danger by being stopped there.   Just like those freeway signs say... "Fender bender?  Pull over to the shoulder!"

 

Above all:

 

 - I need to quit being such a fuckin' jinx around other road users...

Edited February 2, 2014 by Scruit

[Dizzledan]

 

Above all:

 

 - I need to quit being such a fuckin' jinx around other road users...

 

If only there was an effective way to do it. 

 

I'm glad you're out there stopping and helping when things happen, keeps my faith in humanity up. 

It helps to know what one should be thinking about and doing in a situation like this too, thanks for the recounting. 

[Pokey]

Your timing for things like this is a bit scary.

[Scruit]

They just posted the police report.  It was written up as a simple accident and he was cited for an unsafe lane change.  I guess the road rage angle is just being dropped.  He also blew .213 so I have to assume he will be facing a DUI also. 

[bloodninja420]

Why are you putting yourself in the middle of this situation, taking notes like some kind of cop, and borderline grappling with a belligerent drunk?

Helping with the flares was a class move, but anything beyond that I don't get considering you weren't a witness to the collision.

Not trying to bust balls, I just know stories of well intentioned guys who have paid for it after sticking their neck out too far in situations involving marginal characters.

[HeavyDuty]

Lucky usually in situations like this no good deed goes unpunished.

[oldschoolsdime92]

Your timing for things like this is a bit scary.

This.

[Scruit]

Why are you putting yourself in the middle of this situation, taking notes like some kind of cop, and borderline grappling with a belligerent drunk?

Helping with the flares was a class move, but anything beyond that I don't get considering you weren't a witness to the collision.

Not trying to bust balls, I just know stories of well intentioned guys who have paid for it after sticking their neck out too far in situations involving marginal characters.

 

 

I stopped because the accident looked pretty severe and I thought someone could be hurt.  I'm certified NREMT-Emergency Medical Responder.

 

I understand the nature of your concern - but talking to a guy about his truck and answering his questions 7 times over isn't "borderline grappling".  I know when to back off.  Trying take his keys was a move that is up for debate, for sure.  Beyond that, when he announced he was leaving I just stepped aside.  I'm not gettign my ass kicks over a traffic ticket.  It was more like verbal aikido, keeping him busy so his drunk ass didn't get back on the road and cause another accident.

 

"Taking notes like some kind of cop" = Completing the police report the trooper gave me to fill out.  The pen and paper is for exchanging details and taking notes after an accident, etc.  I guess I could use it for an accident I was not involved in too, but I don't that.  Wghen this kind of crap happenss I call EMS and police as needed and try to make sure nobody dies before EMS arrives.  Keeping Mr.OMVI talking was as much about keeping him off the road as a pedestrian as it was as a driver.  Blocking roads, handling belligerant folks etc is not my thing.

 

I am aware that what I do is dangerous.  I am also aware that riding a motorcycle is dangerous.  That doesn't stop you, does it?

 

Again, not busting balls back at you - the feedback is welcome.  I have spent a lot of time thinking through my actions whever this kind of stuff happens and will always do so.  I always run these thngs past a couple friends of mine who are cops and take their advice.  Sometimes they tell me I went too far, sometimes they say I did just fine.  I adjust my response to accoutn for that feedback.

[Scruit]

Your timing for things like this is a bit scary.

 

You don't know the half of it.  Just today I drove up behind what looked like a big rear-end accident with an Escalade at the back and a Prelude turned at 45deg in front of it.  Prelude driver was standing at the door of the Escalade, so I asked if anyone was hurt and that is when I found out it was not an accident, it was some kind of domestic and she was saying things like "He won't let me leave".  

 

I asked him if he was stopping her from leaving and his answer was "This is my truck".  I don't want any part of that garbage - I'm out.  I went back to my car and called the police.  He saw me calling and drove away.  She drove away too.