Casper Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 http://www.nbc4i.com/story/25741087/prosecutor-seattle-campus-shooter-went-off-medshttp://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/06/police-source-spu-suspect-has-fascination-with-mass-shootings/ Imagine that. He was on Prozac and quit taking it. I do believe that's a 90%+ track record for school shooters and mind altering medication. But yeah, better go after those guns.... http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/20/the-aurora-colorado-tragedy-another-senseless-shooting-another-psychotropic-drug/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) you mean the person that did the shooting wasn't mentally stable? Imagine that! I guess there is no winning in politics by focusing on fixing mental health instead of gun grabbing Edited June 11, 2014 by Bad324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 100% agreed. Mental health issues and how to deal with them - that's the real elephant in the room, not access to guns, machetes, knives, poison, etc. And isn't it shameful that even though just about everyone agrees that the mental health dimension (including chemical agents) HAS to be part of the national dialogue, that's all the further anyone in the media can get. The truth, in my mind, is that this is a very complicated issue that will cross pharma, the mental health profession, parenting quality and individual rights. For example, for the last one, it looks a lot like all the signs were there and the guy was pretty radically vocal in person, on the phone with authorities and online, but nobody felt they had enough legal authority to intervene. And let's be frank about it - there are quite a few people who call themselves libertarian who would scream "police state" if authorities intervened more to err on the side of caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 you mean the person that did the shooting wasn't mentally stable? Imagine that! I guess there is no winning in politics by focusing on fixing mental health instead of gun grabbing I can't help but wonder if it's the drugs, not the mental health issue. I had an issue with Zyban. Zyban is a low dosage of Wellbutrin that's supposed to help you quit smoking. Ten or more years ago I tried it. Within a couple weeks I was a violent prick who wanted to destroy everything. Threw my dresser down the stairs of my apartment type stuff. Called the doc who told me to immediately quit taking it. I was freaking out. It had completely changed my personality, my temper, my thoughts, etc. Two days or so after stopping it, I was back to normal. Doc told me it was a common side affect. Common. Side affect. The next time you see an antidepressant commercial on TV, listen carefully. There will be a part in there where they say the drug is THOUGHT to help by blah blah blah. It's THOUGHT to help. Think about that for a minute. They don't even know how or why these drugs "work" and violence is a common side affect, but they're force-feeding them to teenagers and adults alike. It's insane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I can't help but wonder if it's the drugs, not the mental health issue. I had an issue with Zyban. Zyban is a low dosage of Wellbutrin that's supposed to help you quit smoking. Ten or more years ago I tried it. Within a couple weeks I was a violent prick who wanted to destroy everything. Threw my dresser down the stairs of my apartment type stuff. Called the doc who told me to immediately quit taking it. I was freaking out. It had completely changed my personality, my temper, my thoughts, etc. Two days or so after stopping it, I was back to normal. Doc told me it was a common side affect. Common. Side affect. The next time you see an antidepressant commercial on TV, listen carefully. There will be a part in there where they say the drug is THOUGHT to help by blah blah blah. It's THOUGHT to help. Think about that for a minute. They don't even know how or why these drugs "work" and violence is a common side affect, but they're force-feeding them to teenagers and adults alike. It's insane. Indeed, many drugs can do really weird things to some people for indeterminate reasons, and have completely opposite effects on others. I'm on a prescription NSAID for my neck and back, and it makes me a little floaty if I don't eat food with it, but otherwise productive and much less pissy because my body aches are seriously lessened. To others, that floaty feeling is severe and debilitating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 The uptick in school shootings correlates with the mass closures of mental hospitals and the industry shift from therapy or commitment to medication. All I wanted was a pepsi, just one pepsi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 The uptick in school shootings correlates with the mass closures of mental hospitals and the industry shift from therapy or commitment to medication.All I wanted was a pepsi, just one pepsi. Bingo, bingo, bingo. I really do agree and believe that the movement towards more tolerance, more liberty, and more chemical forms of treatment without in-person counseling are big contributors. So, as it relates to intervention - the question then is when does society today have a right to intervene and restrict a person's liberties, i.e. to make them take (or not take) a prescription drug or attend counseling to treat aggression/delusion/whatever? A libertarian might say "never" and a career psychiatrist who works with violent patients might have a completely different take - both worth listening to. The thing is, because our society tends to shun, ignore and compartmentalize people with mental health issues, a low percentage of us actually know what we're talking about (myself included), so a "national dialogue" itself isn't going to fix this "won-and-done." It really gets to the heart of common good vs. individual rights in many cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I have yet to hear a real, viable answer to this problem. Yes, addressing mental health issues is important, but that doesn't magically solve things any more than outlawing gun ownership would magically solve things. As several of these shooters have demonstrated, a diagnosis does not mean that treatment is being complied with, or that it's going to be effective even when the patient complies. Mental illness is only one part of the equation. There is still criminal thinking involved. And when a criminal is willing to sacrifice his life to achieve his objective, what preventative measures are going to intervene? The other "solution" I hear bandied around a lot is to "install metal detectors." Okay... I walk through a metal detector every day on my way into work. The county pays Sheriff's Deputies to sit at that desk and monitor the X-ray machine and metal detector all day every day. That is a significant expense. Multiply that expense by the number of entrances at every school in America, and I don't think it's even remotely feasible to implement that "solution." But let's say we as a society decide that such actions are necessary and appropriate, and the funds are worth the money - then we're putting a couple of thousand students a day and a hundred or so faculty members through (what ought to be) a rigorous search process every morning. Keys and belts set of our metal detector at my office. A line of 5 people can take several minutes to get through security. Say it takes an average of 30 seconds per person - that's still 500 minutes for a school of 2,000 staff/students. Divide that by the number of entrances (let's say 4, or that the school can afford 4 security officers anyway), and we're looking at more than a 2 hour wait to get into school each day. It simply will not happen. You're talking about airport levels of security (and we all love airport security, right?) every day. Beyond that, I think all you really accomplish is moving the shootings from the school to the parking lot, or to some other public setting. Maybe a football game instead of when classes are in session. Or it won't make any difference at all. If someone were motivated, my building has 1 deputy manning the door at all times, and a second deputy that "roams" between our building, and the other courthouse across the street. We have up to 2 deputies in the building at a time, along with 0-10 police officers from various departments who might be here to testify. Even with all 12 of those people here (and that's a huge hypothetical) a gunman could easily take out a couple of LEOs and move on to multiple civilians before anyone had the opportunity to respond. The standoff would occur within seconds instead of within 10 minutes, but the result is still loss of life. I'm all ears for other solutions, but I don't know what they are. Bad people do bad things. They always have, and they always will. Society chooses to tolerate it, or not to. Ours thinks they're not tolerating it, but most people are really just complaining that the government isn't doing anything for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 That's a really thought-provoking post Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 It's sad that we're the only developed country where this shit happens on a regular basis. Seems like every week now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmh_sprint Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 It's sad that we're the only developed country where this shit happens on a regular basis. Seems like every week now. way to almost quote our asshat of a president word for word and not give him credit. troller's are gonna troll taken from an article on yahoo.com“I've got two and a half years left. My biggest frustration so far is the fact that this society has not been willing to take some basic steps to keep guns out of the hands of people who can do just unbelievable damage,” the president said. “We're the only developed country on Earth where this happens. And it happens now once a week. And it's a one-day story. There's no place else like this.” http://news.yahoo.com/obama-on-mass-shootings---we-should-be-ashamed-221406240.html 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) It's true, and is sad, and I've heard several people say it, not just the president.Fortunately, gun ownership is on the decline by household, fewer than 50% of households have guns now, gun owners are a loud minority. Edited June 11, 2014 by magley64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 way to almost quote our asshat of a president word for word and not give him credit. troller's are gonna troll taken from an article on yahoo.com“I've got two and a half years left. My biggest frustration so far is the fact that this society has not been willing to take some basic steps to keep guns out of the hands of people who can do just unbelievable damage,” the president said. “We're the only developed country on Earth where this happens. And it happens now once a week. And it's a one-day story. There's no place else like this.” http://news.yahoo.com/obama-on-mass-shootings---we-should-be-ashamed-221406240.html Mags can't even think for himself. He just regurgitates whatever the media tells him to. Here's some fact checking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_School_massacres Five of the top fifteen deadliest school massacres have happened in the US. That's far too many, but not nearly the only developed place on Earth where this happens. Germany, Canada, Finland, China, Israel, France, Poland, Australia, etc. all also make the list. It's also interesting to note that the worst school massacre in history was in 1927. The sixth worst was in 1966. Wonder why the media doesn't mention this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat0403 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 The most hilarious thing about his stance is that he wants people to stay out of his business and everyone elses, yet take away the ONE linchpin that holds the Constitution together? INFRINGING on the 2nd Amendment takes away any threat of consequence for bending, breaking, or eliminating the rest of the laws by the government that we hold so dear. Regardless of you willingness to have firearms or use them, I would hope you can at least understand that. In all honesty, the school shootings are tragic yes, but the number of people that are murdered every year in Chicago is more of an atrocity...yet firearms are all but banned in that city along with sale of ammo. IIRC you do not abstain, OR at least oppose, from breaking the law with illegal drugs because "what someone does in their own home is their business" and "doesn't hurt anyone". I think the victims and families of victims of the drug cartels disagree. Seeing their severed heads in the front yard and their lifeless bodies hanging from bridges I'm sure is acceptable for your high, or your lack opposition to others getting high. NOT TO MENTION the majority of violence surrounding gang warfare can be linked or a direct result drugs and the distribution of them. The type of government and freedom that we have comes with a price and limitations. I hope to God future generations keep a pessimistic view of the government, the minute the people give someone the road to ultimate power, someone will take it and exploit it. *no i am not the best writer* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 It's true, and is sad, and I've heard several people say it, not just the president.Fortunately, gun ownership is on the decline by household, fewer than 50% of households have guns now, gun owners are a loud minority. Dude.....you are on crack, and what Liberal smut is feeding you that misinformation? I can assure you that is not the truth at all, and the number of guns being bought/traded/given privately is higher than ever. And I assume the highest guns sales ever cannot surely debunk the hilarious theory you just gave? Put the blame where it ultimately lies..... Shitty parenting is the biggest issue in this country, and it creates the cause and effect of most of the major issues we have here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Dude.....you are on crack, and what Liberal smut is feeding you that misinformation? I can assure you that is not the truth at all, and the number of guns being bought/traded/given privately is higher than ever. And I assume the highest guns sales ever cannot surely debunk the hilarious theory you just gave? Put the blame where it ultimately lies..... Shitty parenting is the biggest issue in this country, and it creates the cause and effect of most of the major issues we have here.Unfortunately our resident crack head is right this time. Proof that even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.Total guns owned is way up, households with guns is down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat0403 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Unfortunately our resident crack head is right this time. Proof that even a blind squirrel finds a nut every nowand then.Total guns owned is way up, households with guns is down. Could that be because people are hiding or refusing the register in big enough numbers to skew the numbers? Honest question. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Could that be because people are hiding or refusing the register in big enough numbers to skew the numbers? Honest question.All of the numbers are from polls, so there its no doubt many said zero. All the legit polls mention that as a possibility. I certainly would say zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 All of the numbers are from polls, so there its no doubt many said zero. All the legit polls mention that as a possibility. I certainly would say zero. And THAT is why I know it to not be true, I don't have any guns in my household either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat0403 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) Fire? Arm? Why would I want my arm on fire? Edited June 11, 2014 by Tomcat0403 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) what kind of lunatic keeps guns in their home? How do they sleep at night knowing the possibility that gun might shoot them? Edited June 11, 2014 by Bad324 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmh_sprint Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 ... Shitty parenting is the biggest issue in this country, and it creates the cause and effect of most of the major issues we have here. another example of this statement http://newsok.com/20-students-taken-to-hospital-after-first-grader-brings-heroin-to-school/article/4898959 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Fewer households with guns, more guns total, simple answer, minority of people holding large arsenals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 what kind of lunatic keeps guns in their home? How do they sleep at night knowing the possibility that gun might shoot them?That's my conundrum, if I were to have one, I'd want it somewhere that it wouldn't be accessible to others, but if it's not readily accessible, what's the point of having one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Fewer households with guns, more guns total, simple answer, minority of people holding large arsenals. Only 33% of married couples don't have kids. I guess that means as being a part of the majority, I can force them to have kids. Makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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