blue03636 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 22 minutes ago, J_Copeland said: Doesn't Mid-Ohio have steel rails? Every track does and yes you can hit them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niles Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I heard a rumor Nelson Ledges was being rebuilt to host MotoGP in 2017, is that true? What is their policy on steel rails? I thought they used transparent aluminum? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Ok, this is getting exciting. Real MC racing there would be awesome, and it makes sense. This guy is a developer, he is going to develop it to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 11 hours ago, niles said: I heard a rumor Nelson Ledges was being rebuilt to host MotoGP in 2017, is that true? What is their policy on steel rails? I thought they used transparent aluminum? This is a joke right? 11 hours ago, Tonik said: Ok, this is getting exciting. Real MC racing there would be awesome, and it makes sense. This guy is a developer, he is going to develop it to make money. Very true. He is a business man. In it to make money, and maybe have a little fun too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 If it all goes as planned, fees are going to be up quite a bit... repave alone will be millions. More than the track sold for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue-yamaR6s Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Got out on the bike for the first time this year and drove by there tonight. Doesn't look like much has happened yet except the barn is gone. Silo is still there. Couple dumpsters are onsite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Zapp Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 16 hours ago, Chrome said: He is a business man. In it to make money, and maybe have a little fun too. a guy who buys a $35M collector Ferrari probably buys a place like this for fun first, bragging rights second, and making money third. (does anybody actually MAKE money running a racetrack?....) It'll likely be a class act but expensive to ride at just to keep it exclusive (somewhere between midO and COTA). I hope that bikes will even be given the time of day. How sweet it would be to have a track 45 minutes from home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, i-Zapp said: a guy who buys a $35M collector Ferrari probably buys a place like this for fun first, bragging rights second, and making money third. (does anybody actually MAKE money running a racetrack?....) It'll likely be a class act but expensive to ride at just to keep it exclusive (somewhere between midO and COTA). I hope that bikes will even be given the time of day. How sweet it would be to have a track 45 minutes from home... They do, but I think that happens by hosting spectator events and selling $19 tickets and then (here's the real money-maker) $9 of food and water for $40. I'm pulling numbers out of my ass on this, but for the sake of example, let's say the track sold for $500k, and the repave will be $2M. Then they spend another $100k building structures, and $400k cleaning up hazards (tires) and making other improvements (drainage, run-off, etc.) I intentionally used bullshit round-numbers to keep the math simple, but we're at $3,000,000 just to get the track re-opened and operational. I don't know what MotoSeries or NESBA were paying to run a trackday there, but maybe $10k-$15k? Possibly less, toward the end. They're going to be able to (with a straight face) charge considerably more to rent a completely renovated facility. $25k-$30k? I don't know. Again, pulling numbers from my ass - but even if they're selling days for $50k, that's 60-booked days before tehy recoup the $3M invested ...except that won't happen in 30 weekends (mainly because my numbers are off, but also), because they're going to have operating expenses on top of those investment expenses. corner workers, cutting the grass, insurance, utilities, weather, ongoing track maintenance and improvements - it's all going to delay the break-even date. Honestly, that math worked out to a quicker break-even point than I had expected, but my expense numbers are all over the place, and who knows how accurate... My guess is that the actual track maintenance will be a lot more than I forecast above, and the track rental will be a lot less - plus they may not book every weekend at the higher rate. It's certainly not a risk-free business model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Zapp Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 ...lol, except for insurance, maintenance, utilities, track maintenance, track workers, safety crew, promotion expenses, management, repairs, about double the capital investment you estimated, etc etc. The track owners that come to mind are racing / motorsports enthusiasts that became track owners because of their passion, not because it was a means to become richer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 And don't forget the EPA needing to be there should any changes to the track occur - which will need to be done once they repave as the speeds are going to SOAR! Not to mention disposal of the tires. I cannot remember what the amount guessed on a per tire amount was... As far as the steel rails comments, yes - all tracks have them to some degree. But think Watkins Glenn and then compare to Mid-O... The point is that steel rails for a car built and focused track line the track on both sides... Very dangerous for bikes. If the repave is $2.5 million, they are going to have well above $500k in fixing up the area and making sure everything is up to code. The thing that I believe Nelson was avoiding was renovations as they open up a can of worms on permits, random checks on safety and of course the fact that they are near a nature reserve that run off will be a huge concern. Run off and the river near BlueGrass was a major hurdle in that track and a big issue why it died off... EPA will be watching with a new owner and I am willing to guess they will have a lot of say in any changes to the track itself and especially regarding potential run off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YSR_Racer_99 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 First rumor I heard was around 1995, and it was that Mario Andretti was buying it. Plethora of rumors since then. Don't believe it til it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, YSR_Racer_99 said: First rumor I heard was around 1995, and it was that Mario Andretti was buying it. Plethora of rumors since then. Don't believe it til it happens. Well it's already been purchased, this is no rumor. As for fixing it up, who knows until it's done if it happens at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMN8TR Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Somebody like this doesn't buy the track without checking into epa rules and regs first. If they are planning to fix up the track, repair/rebuild or otherwise improve the facility, repave the track, remove tires or anything like that, permits were checked on before the purchase was made. The sale was under contract for a long time with the buyer having an option to back out if the epa or anything else was going to prevent him from moving forward as planned. The guy is a commercial real estate developer, I'm sure he thought of this stuff before plopping down 500k or whatever the purchase price was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Yep. He knew exactly what his plan was and what it would cost and what the permit issues were going to be. He has people for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 One would think people like that know what they need or have people that do. But case in point? BlueGrass... Had the money (Far more than $500k), had the people, had the land, had a plan, had people come out that were experts in laying it out... Where is it now? EPA issue with the Ohio River was a major situation there. Just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 It's hard to compare the two, one is already existing and can continue to do so. Now if they remove say the tires, they can't just bring them back as that would violate the EPA but keeping them where they are is fine since they are already there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 3 hours ago, blue03636 said: It's hard to compare the two, one is already existing and can continue to do so. Now if they remove say the tires, they can't just bring them back as that would violate the EPA but keeping them where they are is fine since they are already there. Are you sure on that? Real property isn't my area of practice, but I have always been under the impression that a change in ownership initiates an evaluation process similar to new construction. The EPA might give the track 10 years to get into compliance and dispose of the tires, but if they're deemed 'hazardous,' I think there has to be a remediation plan in place for the business to operate. A good example would be adding handicapped ramps to an old building when the business changes hands, or having ADA compliant restrooms. A friend of mine works in environmental law. I'll have to ask if he knows anything more directly on-point. I don't know that tires themselves are inherently hazardous to the environment, but I do know that no matter how you lay/store/stack them, they will hold and pool standing water. That's a major breeding ground for mosquitoes, and that on its own can be an environmental 'hazard' that will shut down a business if they don't spray or something to kill the larvae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Ohio has specific exemptions for the beneficial use of scrap tires that includes race tracks. http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/3745-27-78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 The property is still under the same name of ownership but that company now has a new owner. This may also be another loophole. In anything we have done with the EPA if they sell it to another company they have never had to reevaluate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niles Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) So I've got an idea... What if we left Nelsons in rough shape and marketed it as the ultimate test of adventure style bikes? We could have 'Beak Week'. Everyone on a v-strom could come and splash through potholes, camp among mosquitos, and tell everyone how badass it was? We can sell "I survived an EPA disaster zone" t-shirts to raise money for anti-guard rail campaigns. Isn't Ohio already some kind of haunted house capital of the midwest? we could have a sort of haunted run down race track to accompany it... Seriously though, still happy that someone is taking steps to move the place along, small things add up... Edited March 22, 2016 by niles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHill Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 hurry up and wait time...... just hope the new owner has a bug in his ear when it comes to motorcycle related safety concerns 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonStopable Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Unless the new owner self financed. There is not a bank out there that would touch that property unless a Phase I environmental assessment had been completed. Which at a minimum would include wetlands delineation, potential liability regarding the tires, records regarding above and underground storage tanks. Once you buy it, the problems are yours. We can all thank Love Canal for that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, RonStopable said: Unless the new owner self financed. There is not a bank out there that would touch that property unless a Phase I environmental assessment had been completed. Which at a minimum would include wetlands delineation, potential liability regarding the tires, records regarding above and underground storage tanks. Once you buy it, the problems are yours. We can all thank Love Canal for that one. I don't know that you can finance buying the company that owns Nelsons (I'm sure you can but the company really has nothing so unless he put up his house or something it would be tough). The property was never sold but the company that owned it was. Edited March 23, 2016 by blue03636 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Also Ron, if there was an EPA assessment that would have been done before the sale not after. That being said if there was one it must not have been bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 14 hours ago, RonStopable said: Unless the new owner self financed. There is not a bank out there that would touch that property unless a Phase I environmental assessment had been completed. Which at a minimum would include wetlands delineation, potential liability regarding the tires, records regarding above and underground storage tanks. Once you buy it, the problems are yours. We can all thank Love Canal for that one. OH SHIZNIT! It just got real up in here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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