Mid Ohio Aug. 22-24 or Sept. 1

[durk]

I appreciate the offer but I'm gonna hold off at this point. Thanks though. 

[Limitedslip7]

Yesterday was packed! First time I've ever not been able to walk on in intermediate. Got bumped down to novice which sucked pretty bad, especially since there was 32+ in N. Finally got a bump back up to I group with two sessions left and got back down to 1:46s so it wasn't a total waste... still better than being at work!

[Vagabound]

26 minutes ago, Limitedslip7 said:

Got bumped down to novice which sucked pretty bad, especially since there was 32+ in N. Finally got a bump back up to I group with two sessions left and got back down to 1:46s so it wasn't a total waste... still better than being at work!

I feel ya, big pride pill to swallow. Little to much money to spend to follow the leader in my opinion. 1:46's, you had no business in the N group. 

[Limitedslip7]

Yea it wouldn't have been bad if they still had the open track in N after lunch, but $350-400 for a whole day of following with no clean laps sucks. Coach Tony did show me a few line improvements though. 

Hopefully the weather will be nice for the customer appreciation day in Sept!

[Vagabound]

^ And finally someone is smelling what I've been stepping in. Really hope they re-evaluate this policy. Money don't grow on tree's. I know newbs need this, but they are very evident to whom they are. 

[Trackbikez]

32 minutes ago, Limitedslip7 said:

Hopefully the weather will be nice for the customer appreciation day in Sept!

Speaking of -- has anyone received the e-mail about it yet?  I haven't received anything.  I'm hoping to do both 9/6 and 9/7 back to back, weather dependent.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Trackbikez

[ludwb675]

1 hour ago, Limitedslip7 said:

Yesterday was packed! First time I've ever not been able to walk on in intermediate. Got bumped down to novice which sucked pretty bad, especially since there was 32+ in N. Finally got a bump back up to I group with two sessions left and got back down to 1:46s so it wasn't a total waste... still better than being at work!

Same here. I ended up in group 2 novice. 3 of the 4 in the group were normal intermediate riders. The one guy said he called early in the week and they told him there were plenty of spots open and walking in should be fine. Se he was pretty pissed as well about being sold out. 

There were 43 pre-registered for Intermediate and ended up with 32 in novice. Unfortunately, our instructor did not want to bump anyone up. He finally started picking up the pace the last two session but the final session ended up red flagged. My fastest lap was still 10 seconds slower than my normal pace. But anyday at the track is better than being at work. I worked on my lines and stretching out my new suit. It was my fault for not registering and i chose not to complain about it (too much). 

Planning on being there next thursday and then customer appreciation day.

[Limitedslip7]

I wonder why they changed the N group format? I remember the open track after lunch with only passing on the front/back straights working out pretty well... 

 

[Vagabound]

That was my thoughts. I have no problems with the lead follow, slowly ramp it up. But after lunch---game on! 

Apparently it's on the web site of the format. I assumed and wasted a bunch of money. Especially when taking a chance because rain was forecasted. And the N group was practically dead 4th of July. 

[RHill]

Not trying to be a dick, but the forecast was looking perfect all last week....did you guys really not expect the days to sell out?

to add to that; intermediate riders, bumping to novice because their group is sold out, and complaining about the rules?  lol

The rules are there for everyone, including the first timer who is just figuring out the track....the guy who looks behind, slows down or veers "out of the way" when he hears a bike behind him.  The rules aren't there to make you happy, they are there to make the track a safer place.  You think a first timer is ready for open track after 3 sessions?  I definitely wasn't.  If you make open track all afternoon in novice, you are expecting everyone who is having a difficult time to speak up and request a CR to help...that won't happen and there will be issues caused by it.  If you don't need the structure and feel you are capable, bump to intermediate.  

1 hour ago, Trackbikez said:

Speaking of -- has anyone received the e-mail about it yet?  I haven't received anything.  I'm hoping to do both 9/6 and 9/7 back to back, weather dependent.

haven't seen or heard of anything, last year they sent out an email the week before requesting an RSVP/rider info 

[F4iguy]

Walked on in intermediate Monday morning, but I stayed at the track Sunday night and was standing in line at 6:45 AM. It was a great day.

[ludwb675]

I never register before the late fee kicks in (10 days?) as the weather changes 15 times in that 10 days. I refuse to ride in the rain and i have saved a few days by doing that. And with being 3 days, i figured it would be more spread out and not sold out. With that, i did the novice thing and made lemonade out of it. 

But i was surprised that they did change up. I remember when i was doing novice, i loved the leapfrog thing. It gave the instructor a chance to follow you and help with body positioning. And the classroom time was much more formal. We talked about apexing, body positioning, braking, etc. as a group. Now it was just talk with your instructor for a few minutes after each session. I liked it as it gave me more time to relax, but looking back when i was new, it really helped me learn to ride a track. Our instructor said he didn't like leapfrog as it separates the groups and people get lost and all mixed up; which i can understand. And with 32 people in novice, i think there was too much speed differential between everyone to just do an open track anyways.

Edited August 24, 2016 by ludwb675

[RHill]

20 minutes ago, ludwb675 said:

I never register before the late fee kicks in (10 days?) as the weather changes 15 times in that 10 days. I refuse to ride in the rain and i have saved a few days by doing that. And with being 3 days, i figured it would be more spread out and not sold out. With that, i did the novice thing and made lemonade out of it. 

But i was surprised that they did change up. I remember when i was doing novice, i loved the leapfrog thing. It gave the instructor a chance to follow you and help with body positioning. And the classroom time was much more formal. We talked about apexing, body positioning, braking, etc. as a group. Now it was just talk with your instructor for a few minutes after each session. I liked it as it gave me more time to relax, but looking back when i was new, it really helped me learn to ride a track. Our instructor said he didn't like leapfrog as it separates the groups and people get lost and all mixed up; which i can understand. And with 32 people in novice, i think there was too much speed differential between everyone to just do an open track anyways.

 

No leapfrog?  OK, now that is lame.  How can an instructor even give good input if they are in front the whole time?

Leapfrog gives a new rider a taste of freedom while still being reigned in....best session for both the rider and instructor.  Everyone, no matter the pace, can learn a ton from a session of leapfrog IMHO

[i-Zapp]

a couple of interesting comments from Intermediate group on Tuesday:

• i late registered (with a certificate) and didnt pay a late fee, although EVERYONE else i know got dinged. maybe they like me.
• they tech ALL your gear now
• this one is good: during the riders meeting the CR doing the talking was like "so there'll be no passing in the corners..." WHAAAT? luckily Mike jumped in and said, "whhoah, listen, there's no way that's going to work...etc" and it got revoked
• even with 43+ riders, it seemed like they were only half sold-out; there's was surprisingly PLENTY of room; for whatever reason everyone stayed very spread out (maybe due to good clean, quick passing)
• there were lots of comments about how "good" everyone was riding (no bad passes, no close passes, no stuffs, etc)
• only 1 (?) red flag

overall fantastic day, weather couldnt have been better. unfortunately, thats it for MidO for me this year.

Edited August 24, 2016 by i-Zapp

[Vagabound]

Awesome you had a good time! 

Just noticing a trend...

[Limitedslip7]

18 hours ago, RHill said:

Not trying to be a dick, but the forecast was looking perfect all last week....did you guys really not expect the days to sell out?

to add to that; intermediate riders, bumping to novice because their group is sold out, and complaining about the rules?  lol

The rules are there for everyone, including the first timer who is just figuring out the track....the guy who looks behind, slows down or veers "out of the way" when he hears a bike behind him.  The rules aren't there to make you happy, they are there to make the track a safer place.  You think a first timer is ready for open track after 3 sessions?  I definitely wasn't.  If you make open track all afternoon in novice, you are expecting everyone who is having a difficult time to speak up and request a CR to help...that won't happen and there will be issues caused by it.  If you don't need the structure and feel you are capable, bump to intermediate.  

haven't seen or heard of anything, last year they sent out an email the week before requesting an RSVP/rider info 

I'll agree with you on getting bumped, I was kicking myself in the ass all day for not showing up earlier or registering the day before. Totally my fault. Although, I've been walking on to I group for the past few years without any issues. 

I disagree with you on open track time though. The open track time at the end of the day is a great way to actually apply what you learned without having your hand held and is what got me hooked on track days. You learn a lot from getting a tow all day but it doesn't force you to find/use your own markers instead of just watching the bike in front of you. As for getting passed, N group would probably be the place to get used to it. With the lower speeds and straights-only passes, the occasional brake check or swerve likely won't end in catastrophe. Better to get used to it then than get bumped to I group and get buzzed mid corner right off the rip. I feel the new format might turn some of the new guys off to track days before they get to experience the joys of open track... I guess that would mean more space in I group though? 

[ludwb675]

I remember my first inside pass. It was at Nelson's. It was probably my third track day. If i remember right, it was a really light day for Moto Series and they combined N and I and did 30 minute sessions. I was just starting to tip into 3 and a bike came flying through. Completely threw me off and i stood the bike up. I ended up on the outside edge almost into the grass. Fun times. I miss Nelsons. 

[RHill]

15 hours ago, Limitedslip7 said:

I'll agree with you on getting bumped, I was kicking myself in the ass all day for not showing up earlier or registering the day before. Totally my fault. Although, I've been walking on to I group for the past few years without any issues. 

I disagree with you on open track time though. The open track time at the end of the day is a great way to actually apply what you learned without having your hand held and is what got me hooked on track days. You learn a lot from getting a tow all day but it doesn't force you to find/use your own markers instead of just watching the bike in front of you. As for getting passed, N group would probably be the place to get used to it. With the lower speeds and straights-only passes, the occasional brake check or swerve likely won't end in catastrophe. Better to get used to it then than get bumped to I group and get buzzed mid corner right off the rip. I feel the new format might turn some of the new guys off to track days before they get to experience the joys of open track... I guess that would mean more space in I group though? 

I'm in complete agreement, there should be open track in N...last one or two sessions depending how the day went IMHO.  Before that there should be some "controlled" open track via leap frog to let the riders get a feel for the open track while gauging them, catching any issues and providing feedback.  Go straight to open track after lunch and there isn't time for that feedback loop.

[Vagabound]

5 hours ago, RHill said:

I'm in complete agreement, there should be open track in N...last one or two sessions depending how the day went IMHO.  Before that there should be some "controlled" open track via leap frog to let the riders get a feel for the open track while gauging them, catching any issues and providing feedback.  Go straight to open track after lunch and there isn't time for that feedback loop.

I'm going to disagree with you. Basically anyone first time at the track doesn't know what their doing and needs monitored and hand held? If your in the sport its most likely because you have done other things in your life successfully. IMO, morning sessions are used to identify those who need additional coaching, it's very evident. 

Track days shouldn't be about "Making lemonade out of lemons". Especially at the amount of coin it takes. That format is really turning people off, especially experienced track day riders and ex-racers. People were pissed the day I went and by the sounds of it, going down hill. 

The saying use to go, the only two levels you wanted to be in were N and A groups. The I group usually was the meat grinder. No way would I recommend this to experienced guys going to Mid-O being stuck in N group. 

[i-Zapp]

1 hour ago, Vagabound said:

.. Basically anyone first time at the track doesn't know what their doing and needs monitored and hand held? If your in the sport its most likely because you have done other things in your life successfully. IMO, morning sessions are used to identify those who need additional coaching, it's very evident. 

Any novice at a new track does. The Novice program shouldn't be about letting new riders use a rented track, but rather a concerted, regimented program to methodically "train" new riders to become competent and safe at speed. Three watered-down coaching sessions in the morning, then throw-them-to-the-wolves after lunch is not that. I brought a brand new rider to MidO a few months back, and based on his feedback the current program is a far cry from the classroom sessions and track drills I went through 10 years ago.

[Vagabound]

2 minutes ago, i-Zapp said:

Any novice at a new track does. The Novice program shouldn't be about letting new riders use a rented track, but rather a concerted, regimented program to methodically "train" new riders to become competent and safe at speed. Three watered-down coaching sessions in the morning, then throw-them-to-the-wolves after lunch is not that. I brought a brand new rider to MidO a few months back, and based on his feedback the current program is a far cry from the classroom sessions and track drills I went through 10 years ago.

We all have different opinions and learning styles. Just because you haven't rode at a certain track, does not make you a "NOVICE". My opinion. And as a paying customer this is how I felt.

I just jumped back into the track after a long layoff. Did a track day at Texas World Speedway with Ride Smart. I was blown away with the technology that group used. In the past a instructor would say "you are off line in turn three and parking it turn 12--carry more speed", and the student would reply "No I'm not". Ride Smart coaches actually follows with go-pro's, then sitting in a air condition classroom is mandatory after each session. The coaches would dissect your video---and videos don't lie! Gradually throughout the day they would loosen up on the passing rules. If you came up to a group that was being "coached", a clean pass of the whole group was expected--or get the wrath. There is room for improvement how they run the novice group---in my opinion.

[RHill]

 

2 hours ago, Vagabound said:

No way would I recommend this to experienced guys going to Mid-O being stuck in N group. 

Novice has to be geared toward fresh meat, not the experienced rider.  I wouldn't recommend it either, and honestly I'm surprised the let riders bump down to N because of a sold out group.  I remember 2 years ago around the last AMA race, I & A sold out.....A riders bumped to N and created a bunch of issues.

 

9 minutes ago, Vagabound said:

We all have different opinions and learning styles. Just because you haven't rode at a certain track, does not make you a "NOVICE". My opinion. And as a paying customer this is how I felt.

I just jumped back into the track after a long layoff. Did a track day at Texas World Speedway with Ride Smart. I was blown away with the technology that group used. In the past a instructor would say "you are off line in turn three and parking it turn 12--carry more speed", and the student would reply "No I'm not". Ride Smart coaches actually follows with go-pro's, then sitting in a air condition classroom is mandatory after each session. The coaches would dissect your video---and videos don't lie! Gradually throughout the day they would loosen up on the passing rules. If you came up to a group that was being "coached", a clean pass of the whole group was expected--or get the wrath. There is room for improvement how they run the novice group---in my opinion.

Do they now require novice for a rider new to the track?  Never heard of that before.  I could understand "hand holding" for the first session in intermediate, but throwing someone in novice because it is the first time at a track is pretty extreme. 

The video thing is awesome.....I've always recommended video, and always have at least 1 camera going when on track.  My first trackday ever with MotoSeries, Jinu was rolling around novice with the camera going...seeing yourself really puts things in perspective.

[J_Copeland]

I had to do Novice at Mid-Ohio last September because it was my 1st time there.
I was told that you have to do 2 novices before you can move to I.

[Vagabound]

7 minutes ago, RHill said:

 

Novice has to be geared toward fresh meat, not the experienced rider.  I wouldn't recommend it either, and honestly I'm surprised the let riders bump down to N because of a sold out group.  I remember 2 years ago around the last AMA race, I & A sold out.....A riders bumped to N and created a bunch of issues.

 

Do they now require novice for a rider new to the track?  Never heard of that before.  I could understand "hand holding" for the first session in intermediate, but throwing someone in novice because it is the first time at a track is pretty extreme. 

The video thing is awesome.....I've always recommended video, and always have at least 1 camera going when on track.  My first trackday ever with MotoSeries, Jinu was rolling around novice with the camera going...seeing yourself really puts things in perspective.

If the more experienced riders respect the rules of N group shouldn't be a problem. Usually passing in the straights is the rule of thumb. In all actuality I don't believe in passing in the corners on track days. Racers don't do it unless the guy ahead breaks too deep and blows a corner.

Yes, when I registered Intermediate was requested. They asked if I had rode Mid-O and I was honest. She told me everyone new to the track had to be in Novice. But because I did not research and read all the rules I went in thinking a way different mindset. I never seen a Novice group run that way.

The video is a phenomenal tool. All coaches should have one and a laptop. Seeing your body position, how early you are REALLY braking is a great leaning tool. Plus someone always has video evidence of rules being broke. Sitting out a session is a great way to enforce rules.

[J_Copeland]

Let's just say my coach "Bam Bam" was not running novice pace.
We were on it from 1st session,while the other groups were going snail pace or less.
Now that would be a waste for the more experienced rider.