Mowgli1647545497 Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 ...and joins Oldsmobile in the big Parking Lot of Dead Motor Brands in the Sky. Lutz' got balls. I give him that. He' making the tough choices. But the right ones. GM's had WAY too much redundancy for way too long. Here's the Announcement. Can we get a pool started here? My bet's Buick. If he wants my opinion he should kill off GMC while he's at it - the brand serves no purpose as a standalone entity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old dirty bastard Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Buick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FBody Addict Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 gm has been mismanaged for way too long, i see them selling out to a foriegn company before the end of my life buick's probably gonna get the ax, they were marketed to the wrong group too long and a stereotype (old people's cars) was created Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted March 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Agreed - they should have consolidated these brands in the 70s. The divisions have been cannibalizing their own sales for 30 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug1647545489 Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 GM is still running their company like they have 40 percent of the market share. Times have changed, they need to cut their product line and let some of their upper management go. Also give Lutz more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Pontiac?? PONTIAC???!!! How could you even think that would be a possibility? They released the GTO last year, the G6 this year, and the Solstice next year; companies looking to axe a division won't do that. I'm sure it will be Buick. They just don't sell anything people remember; bunch of grandma cars. GM won't get rid of GMC; trucks/SUV's are their bread and butter, and getting rid of that division would do nothing but hurt, at the Chevy equivalent of all of the GMC models probably wouln't make up for all of the lost sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 isn't the chevy equiv the same damn thing as the gmc? why not get rid of one - gmc - seeing how it's the same vehicle just different badging anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maro Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 GM has been making complete crap for the past 2 years. Not 1 GM car at the autoshow I would consider, with the exception of the GTO or vette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 they should just start over as general motors without the different brand identifiers it would be easier to market things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I doubt Buick would get the axe anytime soon seeing as how they are revamping their entire product line. Eventually I could see it but not sometime in the next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FBody Addict Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Originally posted by Nitrousbird: They just don't sell anything people remember; bunch of grandma cars.like i said about the stereotype except for the GN, the riviera, or the oldschool skylarks? Originally posted by 12499470: they should just start over as general motors without the different brand identifiers it would be easier to market things.+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted March 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Honestly I think Buick is in the bigger trouble of the two. It doesn't have a unique selling point. Exact same problem Chrylser had with Plymouth and Chrysler and Dodge: whats the difference between the three divisions? At best- they're cannibalizing their own sales. Chevy - affordable family do-it-all productline Cadillac - upscale luxury (and now) technology Pontiac - the "performance" division (ala Chrysler's repositioning of Dodge). What's left for Buick to be that doesn't bite into the other three's image? GMC - no reason to exist. Badge difference only from the Chevy trucks. Chevy can sell the trucks just fine. People aren't stupid - the owner-loyalty ones who want to rebuy will know where to go. After all - look at Ford. Ford doesn't need a "FMC" or somesuch psuedo-division to sell its trucks alongside Ford selling the same trucks. And Ford sells more trucks than all the other truck makers combined. 54% marketshare. Ford sells moretrucks than Toyota sells of all its stuff. And thats just the F series. GMC could go and not hurt GM at all. But it doesn't look like its on the chopping block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted March 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 So here's how it'll go down: ---------------------- GM's given notice, fired the shot across the bow - "make money or sink." Pontiac responds by pushing their new products almost ready to hit streets or newly on the streets. But doesn't post the numbers. G6? Ain't selling. GTO? Ain't selling. Solstice? May make a bit of a splash but it'll be too little too late. Across the street at Buick they've got nothing coming down the pipe worth a spit or different in any way. They go into overdrive trying to redo their image thru the sheer power of marketing. Buick Lacross? Yeah it sucked the first time they released it as the Oldsmobile Aurora. Buick too doesn't post their numbers. Big meeting mid year up at GM. Restructuring plan made to reposition the brands like I outlined in my above post. Fall - announcement made: Division XYZ is getting the ax. This time next year: great deals on leftover Buicks. ---------------------- Sorry - but thats just how its going to happen. Lets see how close I guessed it - meet me here next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I was going to mention the Buick LaCrosse, and close down all discussion about who should get cut. smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohones Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I'm with the majority here / it's Buick going down - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BLUE BY U Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 for the record the gto did better than exspected on sales! i only know cause i got one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkendubber Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 buick is going to get the axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I edited Mowgli's original post to my thoughts as to what the restructure should end up looking like, but I generally agree with what has already been said in this thread. Originally posted by Mowgli: Chevy - affordable family midrange cars Cadillac - upscale luxury (and now) technology Pontiac - the "performance" division (ala Chrysler's repositioning of Dodge). GMC - All of GM's trucks and SUV's go under this name, with the exception of whatever Cadillac feels like taking from GMC's line and improving on. Saturn - Low end econo-boxes, so that people that buy Chevrolet badged cars can still feel like they aren't driving a low end POS. This line should still operate completely independantly from the rest of GM, just as they have so far. Corvette - Drop the Chevy badge and make it independant of everything else. They have already had talks of coming out with the C7 while producing the C6 at the same time. Two cars with the same name sounds like a good basis for a brand name to me.With this idea, Buick is gone. Right now it's somewhere inbetween Chevy and Cadillac, which is a rather small market. Chevy can move up a bit from where they are now to fill the void, and Saturn can expand a bit to make up low end Chevy's. Kill the Malibu and replace it with a nice Saturn. Make all Saturn's FWD. Chevy's can go either way, same with Cadillac. Pontiac should be all RWD. Platform sharing won't work to well, which will hurt expenses, but I believe this will also cut out repitition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted March 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 GTO sales Quoting Autoweek: Sales for 2004 were 13,569, quite a disappointment compared to the 18,000 planned, and it took a lot of incentives to get the sales that high. Of course, we could play a guessing game about what the initial price gouging did to overall sales, but I think in the end the car would not have sold well even without dealer markups. On the upside, the crappy sales performance motivated GM to do something to rescue the launch: dump in the new stronger engine and "re-launch" the car in 05. Which they did. (I credit Lutz. Pre-Lutz, GM would have just lurched along with its head in the sand.) Seems to be working - sales are starting to climb up in 05. Of course they'll easily beat the "refactored" expectations for 05, giving GM some much needed press release opportunities in the next few months. But press releases aren't dollars. 200% sales increase over the same month in the previous year sounds great. But when its 800 units vs 400 units, that ain't so great. Its gonna play out like I laid out. Neither Pontiac or Buick is gonna make thier numbers and when they're deciding which to send to the gallows, Pontiac is the brand with the following. Adios Buick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGraw Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Originally posted by Mowgli: Ford sells more trucks than all the other truck makers combined. 54% marketshare. Ford sells moretrucks than Toyota sells of all its stuff. And thats just the F series. World Automakers #1. GM #2. TOYOTA #3. Ford Toyota took over Ford a while ago, Ford might sell more trucks but Toyota sells more over-all. LEtsa face it GMC is engineering Saturn to go after Lexus, because it's been a 'fear' that Toyota will over-take GM. I still think GM owns them all think about it, they own more porn channels than any other source, in owning DirecTV. They own Ford, it's just they can't make it public hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGraw Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 ok Campbell (think that was the marketing director) said GM had nothing to fear for sales because they were releasing the Cobalt SS and the Monte Carlo SS to compete with the Mustangs sales ... sorry, i'm a GM fan ... but it's going to be really hard to compete with with the Cobra's with out supercharged V6's ... just my humbled opinion though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGraw Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 ok Campbell (think that was the marketing director) said GM had nothing to fear for sales because they were releasing the Cobalt SS and the Monte Carlo SS to compete with the Mustangs sales ... sorry, i'm a GM fan ... but it's going to be really hard to compete with with the Cobra's with our supercharged V6's ... just my humbled opinion though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wease Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I hate to say it, but it will probably be Buick. They used to make cars that younger people actually enjoyed, but not anymore. However, one of these days, I'm still gonna get a 97 and up Regal GS for a great daily driver. They are a nice car... graemlins/nod.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FBody Addict Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 i will, one day, own an 87 GN, which is actually the car i was looking for when i bought the T/A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Originally posted by McGraw: Toyota took over Ford a while ago, Ford might sell more trucks but Toyota sells more over-all. Not domestically. In 2003 (the most recent year anyone has totals for - well 2004 might be out by now) Ford sold more F Series trucks than Toyota sold of its whole vehicle lineup. Worldwide, yeah in 03 Toyota edged by Ford with 6.78 mil vs 6.72mil. Both closing in fact on GM's 8.6 mil. If rates keep up Toyota will pass GM worldwide by 2009. %$^&-ing search on here never works when you want it to. [ 25. March 2005, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Mowgli ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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