Need new cell service.

[BiG BeN]

Originally posted by Orion:

umts is not fourth gen. ts more like 2.5 gen, like a wcdma or a cdma2000. 3g is only available in a few european and souteast asian countries right now. cdma and gsm are true 2g technologies. according to most experts, tdma is as well, but i myself dont think thats entirely accurate. posting from my pocket pc, i cant he!p but think that you wouldnt be able to do this from any tdma device.

ok, i'll go with that. i'm accustomed to working almost exclusively with AWS and Cingular. wich for them UMTS is 4th gen, as it's the newest of 4 technologies that they are using. wich is an implementation NIGHTMARE BTW.

[TurboTank]

nextel>all

 

who wants to race....who can call someone the quickest

[Orion]

rob, listen carefully, you wont hear any t- mobile "propoganda" in my arguments, so id appreciate it if you took a more objective approach to your side of the discussion.

 

evdo is really cool. no doubt about that. so is EDGE. and cdma200. and wcdma. but none of these is truly 3g. all are adaptations of current 2g technology. thats why i tend to view them as more of a 2.5g kinda thing. anyways, its really all relative anyways.

 

my other argument is that none of these is truly "whole network" encompassing. cingular's (at&t's) edge network is only a portion of its calling area, and the same can be said about their wcdma. same goes for verizons evdo. when i mentioned 3g earlier in this thread only being in europe and asia, i was meaning on an "entire network" level. of course its a lot easier over there, because theres a lot less land in most cases.

 

as far as covering more square miles, i totally agree. any network that has an analog backup is going to be huge compared to one thats solely digital. (like gsm) but as the world becomes more and more of a neighborhood, which network do you think will be the one most people move too? have fun trying to use your regular sprint or verizon phone overseas. ask anyone in europe if theres a tdma tower around, and theyll laugh in your face.

 

(i really like this convo, btw)

 

for those who are just kinda following along, rob is correct. phonescoop is an excellent source of info, might try gsmworld as well, to see how the rest of the world does it.

[03spydr]

Are we looking at what's better right here right now, or what we can take across the ocean with us?

 

The truth is, GSM works great when you can saturate the area with towers. (i.e. Europe) Anyways, Sprint and Verizon both offer GSM loaner phones you can take overseas with your same phone # and everything if you really need one. If you don't like the phone they give you, just swap your sim card into just about anyone's phone you find while you're there. GSM phones open the consumer up to integrity issues just like the old fashioned days of cloning we're trying to get away from.

[Orion]

a loaner? why go through the trouble? anyways, do you think the world will change to be on the same network as us, especially when we cant even decide on a standard amongst ourselves? or, will we ultimately find our way to gsm as a nation? my money is on the latter.

 

as far as integrity goes, samsung just released a sim chip that has some very serious encryption built into it. not to mention that sim cards now have three or more levels of security. (pin, pin2, puk) the reason people have data stolen is because they dont set that security up. you can lead a horse to water......

[Akula]

wow, some very good stuff. People that have never seen the phone system in Europe will never get how crappy it is here in the US. All of europe is one standardized network with NO roaming. If you are in England on your English phone and you travel to Sweden, you don't even see a change in the rate. It is crazy, full signal E V E R Y W H E R E.

 

Not the same here because no one will agree to a standard and develop 1 2 1 agreements. TMO has this in areas where AT&T is prominant and for that I am greatful cause I have been all over the US and never roamed (when I had signal).

 

Why do my topics either get NO love or turn into multi-page heated arguments?

[Orion]

i dont think this is really a "heated" argument, just a discussion on the way of things as far as cell service goes.

 

in the end, rob has made a good point. you live in the states, then you have to do whats best for you. and if thats something other than tmo, then i can respect that.

[03spydr]

Do you think the US will find the way to the promised land of solid GSM coverage in the next two years? Verizon spends $4 BILLION on their network each year, more than most companies even bring in. Who is going to lend money to a technology trying to play catch-up in the US?

 

Will he need to use the phone overseas very often? The "hassle" of a loaner involves calling a toll free #, giving your phone # and address, and being given the choice of picking one up at a retailer or having FedEx deliver it overnight. What would you have to do to actually be able to use your GSM phone overseas? Possibly have to deal with a service provider and customer service over there for a SIM card? Yeah, much less hassle.

 

If anyone can't think of valid reasons otherwise, then go for two years on Verizon and re-evaluate then. WLNP lets you port your number around if you want, so the market is really competitive right now. You get what you pay for.

 

T-Mobile uses single band phones so you will never roam. The phone just will not work unless you are on a home area tower. Remember how bad Voicestream was? Well they changed a few years ago to T-Mobile...the only thing they changed was the name. They felt it was a bad reputation with the name that was keeping them down. The sad thing is that their sales actually picked up. +1 for stupid public.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally posted by 03SPYDR:

Remember how bad Voicestream was? Well they changed a few years ago to T-Mobile...the only thing they changed was the name. They felt it was a bad reputation with the name that was keeping them down. The sad thing is that their sales actually picked up. +1 for stupid public.

That's reminds me. My first cell phone was an Aerial. I was pleased with the service (very good at the time), and the rates were REALLY good. Then they moved over to Voicestream. I stayed with Voicestream for a bit, but could see how the service was going downhill and jumped ship to Verizon. I've been a Verizon customer for 4 years now.

[ZYUL8TR]

The wife and I have had every possible carrier. We switched to AT&T and was on their digital TDA system for 1 year. We recently switched to AT&T's GSM network. I must say this is the best reception/coverage to date. It is a shared, nationwide plan, 900 anytime miunutes, nights/weekends start at 7pm, and free mobile-to-mobile calls to the other phones in the plan. The monthly is $59.99, $9.99 for the additional line, and a $10 monthly promotional credit for two years. For $60/month, this is the best I've seen yet.

[03spydr]

AT&T is in the process of selling their customers to Cingular and selling phones on the PCS network of Sprint. The partnership agreements are already signed with Sprint PCS. Good luck.

[Orion]

rob, if we only use single band phones, explain to me why cingular and att networks are open to us? in your haste to bash tmo, you are only showing yourself to be uninformed.

 

4 billion spent a year on a network is impressive, unless youre deutsche telekom, which spends triple that. tell me where verizon ranks in the world in terms of telecommunications provided. hell, we even own our own shipping company. (dhl)

 

to travel internationally with our phones, you get on a plane and go somewhere. i guess you could call that a hassle. especially around holiday season.

 

it seems being a phonescoop subscriber doesnt automatically qualify you as an expert in the field.

[03spydr]

What new bands do your T-Mobile phones operate on? That's right, only one. (Single Band)

 

How much did Deutsch Telekom spend on networks in the US? (The only info relative to the original topic)

 

Can you go to ANY country with GSM service with a GSM phone and just use it? (Without swapping SIM cards or contacting a foreign service provider)

 

Phonescoop was referenced once in an earlier post as an aid in researching phone hardware. It is by no means the source of all my information nor do I subscribe to it. Do you have a better site for researching PCS, CDMA, AMPS hardware? If so, post it to help him out on choosing a phone to use on a superior network.

[Guest Ponyfreak]

Europe is tiny compared to the USA. I have spent a couple months over there and I will share some info with you guys. A GSM phone from Europe does not work EVERYWHERE like you say it does. That is bullshit information.

 

There is no roam on a T mobile phone in Europe, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, or singapore. I did not have to change out chips or anything. I know this for a fact. THe T mobile phone i had here in the states had shittier reception than my verizon phone in my other pocket did.

 

THe only place I have been where a T mobile phone or my verizon phone did not work was in Japan. THey are like the USA and want to have their own special band.

Verizon does work in Hong Kong, but that is the only place besides Canada and Mexico that I have been to where it works.

[RS69]

Originally posted by 03SPYDR:

Are we looking at what's better right here right now, or what we can take across the ocean with us?

 

The truth is, GSM works great when you can saturate the area with towers. (i.e. Europe) Anyways, Sprint and Verizon both offer GSM loaner phones you can take overseas with your same phone # and everything if you really need one. If you don't like the phone they give you, just swap your sim card into just about anyone's phone you find while you're there. GSM phones open the consumer up to integrity issues just like the old fashioned days of cloning we're trying to get away from.

You dont need a loaner phone for GSM in Europe anymore from VZW. Verizon Wireless has dual mode phones, I tested several of them(Samsung A790, and Motorola A840) Worldphones and they worked fine. The Motorola also is a camera phone with 1.2 megapixels. The problem with GSM is you need more towers than a CDMA based network for coverage.

 

Back to the original question, Akula, you have your numbers ported more easily with VZW than others. Okay, I am done being on my soapbox...

[Orion]

question:

Can you go to ANY country with GSM service with a GSM phone and just use it? (Without swapping SIM cards or contacting a foreign service provider)

answer:

well, i said you could, and according to joe (who i know for a fact thinks tmo sucks) you can, so i must know a little bit about what im talking about. you do not need to contact a local provider in a new country to use your tmo phone there. as long as you have a phone that is multi band and works on their network, you are good to go. your number doesnt change or anything. hell, if you get a call from home, its not even long distance.

 

 

question:

What new bands do your T-Mobile phones operate on? That's right, only one. (Single Band)

answer:

what exactly do you consider, "band", rob? almost all of our phones are tri-band models (except our stupid samsungs) that work on 1900, 900, and 1800. we have more than a few that work on 850 as well. in fact, the only single band phones we have are the nokia 6010 and 6800.

 

to you question about networks, t-mobile added over 4000 towers last year, as well as signing roaming agreements with two regional carriers that will cost our customers nothing.

 

the merger of att and cingular is complete. went through last week, making cingular the largest cellular service provider in america.

 

cruiser, correct me if im wrong, but doesnt verizons new dual mode phone cost upwards of 500 dollars? not bashing, just wasnt sure of the price. wether it does or not, its at least a step for them in the right direction. (i think it may be a samsung phone, too) as far as number porting being easier with vzw, i just dont see that. all you need to port a number with us is the number and an account number. granted ive never ported to verizon before, because ive never had their service, but im not sure how much easier it gets than that.

[BiG BeN]

1850-1990 = 1 band

806-895 = 1 band

there is no public use wireless phone that operates in any other frequency range.those are the only frequency allocated for this purpose by the FCC.

[Orion]

in america, tmo and att use 1900 mhz, and cingular uses 850. 900 and 1800 are mostly international bands.

[Boost-n-Juice]

Verizon has the lowest Churn rate over any carrier at just over 1%, where as the industry average is around 8%. Verizon is also by far the fastest growing Company and up until the ATT/Cingular merger, they were the largest in terms of customer base and network size.

 

Bottom line, more customers are satisfied as Verizon Customers and Verizon always comes out on top in almost every survey conducted in terms of Customer Service, Network Quality and Coverage.

[Orion]

not according to j.d. power and assoc.

[Prodeje79]

I have been pretty happy with my Cingular Phone.

I have been with them since they were Ameritech.

 

You might want to checkout http://www.howardforums.com

 

Cingular is http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=50

 

I am sure you will people that hate and like each carrier.

[BiG BeN]

Originally posted by Orion:

in america, tmo and att use 1900 mhz, and cingular uses 850. 900 and 1800 are mostly international bands.

not that it means much to the thread but every PCS carrier uses 1800, and 1900. downlink frequencies are a 5MHZ band near 1865mhz(depending on FCC allocation) and uplink frequencies are another 5MHZ band near 1950mhz)again depending on FCC allocation) so the phone and the BTS both cover the whole 5mhz range in the uplink and downlink,and use one little piece of this 5mhz band for transmit and one for receive.it's the same for the 850 band but with bigger blocks closer to 30mhz. and ALL carriers in the PCS range operate this way. i can actually upload an image of phone call from my spectrum analyzer if anyone is interested. this is my little niche. i've been workin rf propagation as it applies to wireless communication for about 8 years now.

[Orion]

Originally posted by BiG BeN:

not that it means much to the thread but every PCS carrier uses 1800, and 1900. downlink frequencies are a 5MHZ band near 1865mhz(depending on FCC allocation) and uplink frequencies are another 5MHZ band near 1950mhz)again depending on FCC allocation) so the phone and the BTS both cover the whole 5mhz range in the uplink and downlink,and use one little piece of this 5mhz band for transmit and one for receive.it's the same for the 850 band but with bigger blocks closer to 30mhz. and ALL carriers in the PCS range operate this way. i can actually upload an image of phone call from my spectrum analyzer if anyone is interested. this is my little niche. i've been workin rf propagation as it applies to wireless communication for about 8 years now.

then it serves to reason you know a little more about this than i do. thanks for droppin the knowledge, homie. in sales, those distinctions often are deemed frivolous, so we dont get that far into it. good to know, though.

[Billiumss]

I work for Lucent Technologies and I build and test this stuff everyday so you could say I know how this stuff works.

 

TDMA and GSM are the same except for the bandwidth. TDMA is 30khz and GSM is 200khz. Basically GSM is TDMA technology. (Time Division Multiple Access)

 

Sprint and Verizon use the exact same cell phone systems, CDMA. The main difference between the 2 is cell site placement, antenna angles, and software.

 

We are doing UMTS right now. From what the engineers are telling us, UMTS is going to be a overlay data network for GSM. Over time, UMTS will be the standard for voice and data.

 

Sprint and Verizon are already talking UMTS.

 

Digital cell phone systems are about 5 miles apart, closer in higher populated areas.

 

Analog can be up to 20 miles apart!

 

Don't know if you guys know this but when you drop a call, the cell site knows this and records why and makes a log. That log goes to the provider and they check into it so it won't happen again.

 

With ATT and Cingular merging, that is only a good thing for us consumers.

 

I curently have Verizon for my cell service but I will be swithcing to Cingular next spring. With the amount of cell towers they will have, having low signal won't be a problem.