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Car Dads - 2-seater question


zeitgeist57

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I've asked this question before, but too lazy to search...

 

My daughter is almost 40lbs and will be 3 years old in June. Getting ready for Cars and Coffee, I wanted to hear some positive stories from other dads out there about it being OK to have their kid ride with them in their 2-seater.

 

My '95 Vette has dual airbags, and she will be sitting in a booster seat with a back (she's graduated from a baby car seat). Aside from the 'Vette being small, I can't see how this setup would be any less safe than sitting in a booster in the back of any other car. I would only be taking her on side streets to Lennox Town Center in UA/OSU area.

 

Good idea, bad idea? I'm inclined to do it, but wanted community validation. :)

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My 4.5 year old is only 30 lbs. What are you feeding that kid? Even at 3, she seems awfully young to be transitioning to a booster seat. You can get regular 5-point toddler seats that go beyond the normal 40 lb weight limit if you want to keep her in one longer.

 

In any case, there's no laws against putting kids in the front seat with the airbags turned off, although many people around where I live will look at you like you're a goddamn child molester if you do. I actually ran into this issue a few months back when I wanted to put my 4 year old in the front seat because I was too lazy to move the car seats around, so I looked up the law and some studies on how safe it was.

 

Prior to the advent of airbags, the rear seat was undeniably safer than the front seat:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14642880

 

That study showed that moving to the back seat reduced the risk of death in an accident by 40%. A later study, adjusted for airbag use, modified the numbers slightly:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16595421

 

That study found that with a front airbag in place, the front seat was actually safer for adults, overturning a long standing assumption that by putting kids in the "safer" back seat you were just putting adults into the death seat. However, you'll note that for kids under 12, the front seat is just as deadly with an airbag as without.

 

Those are the numbers. 40% increase in the risk of death for putting your daughter in the front seat, regardless of what you do with the airbag.

 

It's a judgement call. We all have to accept some risk, even for our kids. Given that the odds of getting into a fatal accident on 1 trip to Cars and Coffee are already very, very small, a 40% increase doesn't amount to much. I wouldn't do it with a 3 year old personally, but I wouldn't think ill of you as a parent either.

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My 4.5 year old is only 30 lbs. What are you feeding that kid? Even at 3, she seems awfully young to be transitioning to a booster seat.

 

+1, Mine's going on 6 and is only 38lbs...LOL. And we didn't put her in a booster seat till she was 5...

 

But size wise I guess it makes sense as she's as big/bigger than my 6 year old.

 

But good question, I've been debating this personally as well and pondering the risk.

 

Do the c4's have the airbag off option, I'm pretty sure the c5's do, but doubt earlier.

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I turned the airbag off, and took my 4 yr old for a spin around town. I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing it very often, during busy hours, or too far a distance, or anywhere near hwy speeds. She is hilarious though, told me I needed to sell my "red car" (accord) and buy another "blue car".
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Yes I want to know what you mean by Booster.

 

Booster to me is:

http://TRUS.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pTRU1-6937820dt.jpg

I own this for my 6 almost 7 YO Nephew who weighs 45 LBS, he transitioned to this at age 6 per his mother, I disagree but it is the seat she says is fine for HER child whom I pick up from school because I am active in his life and my Job affords me the ability to pick him up and care for him until his mother comes to get him a few days of the week.

 

My daughter who will be 4 very very soon is in this for a few more years because it will be fine and safer at the maximum of 65 LBS. "Safety 1st, Complete Air"

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410fSKZ1q4L.jpg

 

My 6 Year old nephew above will move to the front seat of the STi because my Son will be born in 5-6 weeks and will be in the backseat, the Airbag will only arm and be on if there is 90LBS in the seat.

 

If you cannot turn the airbag off in the front seat, your child should not ride in the front seat period. Remember you can talk about how safe you are going to be, and your route, but others actions are not in line with yours. You can be proactive about your child's safety, however you cannot control others actions. I don't like my nephew to be in the front seat, but with 2 Car seats in the back there is not room for him in the back unless he sits without a booster, and To be honest I am kicking that idea around. Why? Because of this research and video (Starts Slow and is long but Good IMO) and the stuff Greg posted above my post:

 

Edited by Benjamin
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Clay I do feel it's your kid, if you pull the fuse and take her, that is a risk you are willing to take, no one should speak of ill parenting. After all she is your child. I do think an armed airbag in a front seat is a poor choice. My .02, and it stinks like every other asshole.

 

You can always look back to the pre 80 and 90s era and wonder, "How are we all here?". Cars were death traps back then and so were the practices of parents. Although I have no facts on this I have checked, but I think I would be correct in thinking there were less cars on the road.http://smiliesftw.com/x/dunnored.gif

Edited by Benjamin
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Thanks, guys - especially Greg - for the constructive input. Ben, the booster I have is nearly an exact match to the Graco you listed.

 

I can't turn off the airbag, though C4 Vette guys say they've done it by pulling the fuse for the PS airbag. Dubious. However, my daughter would be facing forward...I would assume that an airbag would be helpful in this situation. I know that rear-facing baby seats up front are deathtraps for infants as an airbag deployment catapults the child into the seatback...

 

Meh...she likes driving her Jeepie at CC&C...may stick with just taking the truck if she wants to go so I can bring that along as well. :)

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I double checked, and I can't find any law against putting kids in the front seat even with airbags.

 

http://www.odh.ohio.gov/odhprograms/hprr/cpsafe/childbooster.aspx

 

You are required by law to keep her in a child seat (not a booster) until she's 40 lbs, though.

 

 

That said, if you do put here in the front seat, yank the airbag fuse. The problem is that airbags have gotten extremely powerful, and they're carefully positioned so that the center of the airbag hits below head level. You want to take the brunt of the force in your chest, not your head. Children will hit the bottom of the airbag with their heads and have their necks snapped. They're also underweight for the strength of the airbag. They're just not designed with kids in mind. If I find the stats later today I'll post them.

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Children will hit the bottom of the airbag with their heads and have their necks snapped. They're also underweight for the strength of the airbag. They're just not designed with kids in mind. If I find the stats later today I'll post them.

 

Holy shit. Don't even worry, Greg...I'm done now. No Corvette for my little girl!

 

FYI, I swear that half of her growth was from drinking this stuff since she was off of breast milk. Picked it up at Giant Eagle in UA for $3 to $3.50 a half gallon but well worth it IMO: http://www.snowvillecreamery.com/milk.html

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How the hell did us old guys survive childhood? No front airbags, no seat belt laws, kids standing on the front seat leaning forward with our hands on the dashboard.

 

Clay, pull the passenger airbag fuse, buckle her into her booster seat and let her learn to enjoy life in the front seat. It'll be a bonding experience. I can't speak to the legality of it all, but I would say you are being as safe as a parent can reasonably be. Although you are right about no room for the power wheels in the 'vette.

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Lol, both my girls drank Snowville whole milk almost exclusively and they're still in the bottom 10% for weight. My damn scrawny genes must be poweful. It's delicious, though.

 

I heard about it on NPR before my daughter was born and bought nothing but that stuff for the last 3 years. I still think it helped, but maybe it's like using fuel additives; more placebo than benefit. :)

 

My wife likes it, and when we go to Florida we're forced to get normal milk. She definitely tastes a difference between store-labeled and Snowville...they must be doing something right...

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How the hell did us old guys survive childhood? No front airbags, no seat belt laws, kids standing on the front seat leaning forward with our hands on the dashboard.

 

Clay, pull the passenger airbag fuse, buckle her into her booster seat and let her learn to enjoy life in the front seat. It'll be a bonding experience. I can't speak to the legality of it all, but I would say you are being as safe as a parent can reasonably be. Although you are right about no room for the power wheels in the 'vette.

 

I may treat her to it every so often, but the airbag visual just scared me straight. Sorry, Rick...it's a daddy thing you wouldn't understand. ;)

 

Also, I submit that we all survived thanks to 1) Bigger, slower vehicles back in the day, and 2) People knew how to drive. My wife remembers lying on the parcel tray in the back of a '77 Impala sedan when her family would drive from Ohio to Florida with 6 people in the car. :eek:

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The problem is that airbags have gotten extremely powerful, and they're carefully positioned so that the center of the airbag hits below head level.

 

You got it backwards. The problem is airbags WERE extremely powerful. Airbags are now less powerful and more intelligent. Before it was a crash sensor and a detonator. Oh, no crash inflate bag! Now there are weight sensors multiple crash sensors etc. Now they can deploy a passenger airbag slightly after a driver's for a frontal offset crash, not deploy if it is a lighter person or if they are not wearing belts, etc etc. They also deploy slower with less force.

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How the hell did us old guys survive childhood? No front airbags, no seat belt laws, kids standing on the front seat leaning forward with our hands on the dashboard.

 

Luck? There's two ways to look at this. One way is to realize that auto accidents are the #1 cause of death for kids. The other way to look at it is that 2000 kids die per year in the US from auto accidents, based on one source I found that didn't define "kid" very well. Given that there are about 70 million people under 18 in this country, 2000 dying isn't all that many. It's actually pretty close to insignificant.

 

So on the one hand, the odds of any one kid dying in a car accident in a given year are astronomically low. On the other hand, if your kid dies this year, odds are that it's going to be from a car accident.

 

You can also look at accident fatalities in the US over time:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_United_States

 

You'll notice that we went from approximately 5 fatalities per 100 million miles when I was born down to 1.27 as of 2008. That means that if 2000 kids die this year in car accidents, 8000 would have died in 1979. 6000 kids not dying this year because of safety advances isn't nothing.

 

Long story short, I'm torn. If there are simple steps I can take to help reduce the risk of the #1 killer of kids, I'm going to take those steps, even though my brain is telling me that I'm changing the odds from insignificant to insignificant.

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You got it backwards. The problem is airbags WERE extremely powerful. Airbags are now less powerful and more intelligent. Before it was a crash sensor and a detonator. Oh, no crash inflate bag! Now there are weight sensors multiple crash sensors etc. Now they can deploy a passenger airbag slightly after a driver's for a frontal offset crash, not deploy if it is a lighter person or if they are not wearing belts, etc etc. They also deploy slower with less force.

 

Good correction, you're right. A kid is probably safer going up against a modern airbag than one from 1995.

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My wife remembers lying on the parcel tray in the back of a '77 Impala sedan when her family would drive from Ohio to Florida with 6 people in the car. :eek:

 

I remember doing this when I was younger (I was born in 1987 so I probably was five or six). Dad would occasionally slam on the brakes for shits and giggles. Not very fun for me.

 

"Hey son, guess what?"

 

"what?"

 

*slams brakes"

 

*yelling*

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I remember doing this when I was younger (I was born in 1987 so I probably was five or six). Dad would occasionally slam on the brakes for shits and giggles. Not very fun for me.

 

"Hey son, guess what?"

 

"what?"

 

*slams brakes"

 

*yelling*

 

Sorry, but that is FUNNY! I can see myself doing that. No sweat Clay, I'm sure it is different being a parent. My thought is there is a limit of what you can do to keep your kid safe from harm. There is inherent risk in any activity, including riding buckled up in the back seat of a car. In my mind the difference between the back seat where there is no air bag, and the front seat of your vette with the airbag disabled is minimal. If the air bag is enabled, then I am with you completely, absolutely not, that is some scary shit. Either way this is all academic. She's your daughter, you have to live with every decision you make. If it makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it. Acceptable risk is different for everyone.

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I don't worry at all about putting the boys in the front with me. I grew up riding in a lot of trucks that DIDN'T HAVE A BACK SEAT. :)

 

I drove a Ranger for a year or so, and everyday picked up my older boy (then baby) from the sitter.

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