TTQ B4U Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 So in terms of warranty work where there's a definite issue that's being experienced on an intermittent interval, how would you handle a dealer telling you the typical "can't recreate the issue" so you're on your own until it happens again where we can actually see it? I'm frustrated as this is an issue that the vehicle has been in the shop for prior. The ignition switch has been replaced once, but the key still get's stuck and won't come out. It takes minutes of playing with it to get it out. Again, maybe once per week. My understanding is that it could be a couple things but I find it unacceptable to "deal with it" until I can arrive at the dealer with the key still stuck or have it towed. How would you handle it? What is reasonable to expect from the dealer? The manufacturer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Honestly if they can't find the problem, then they can't find the problem. I don't think they are really at fault. Is it an automatic transmission car that you're having this problem on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar231 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Happens to my camaro every now and then. Key will get stuck and ill have to play with it, or start the car then turn it back off to get it to come out. Weird shit. EDIT: When i used to do maintenance at a apartment complex, when peoples door locks would get hard to put the key in and out we would spray graphite into the lock and that would normally help it. That probably would be a bad idea in a cars ignition wouldnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotart Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 What about taking a video of the issue as it is happening? I run into this at work when fixing computers. It is very difficult to fix an issue that is no longer occurring when I get the machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye1647545503 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 You have 2 choices. 1: live with it 2: drop car off atdealer and tell the service manager to drive your car every day till it does it and they fix it and be prepared to be without a car for at least a week, maybe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinner Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 whats the car and who's the dealership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior62 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 1 find a different dealer 2 leave it with them until they get it to happen for them.(they can have a tech drive it till it acts up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Doh, Well, if they have already replaced the ignition/ cylinder you don't have much choice but to tell them to trade you cars for a week or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy1647545504 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Talk to your service writer, and tell him that you'd like to have him open a ticket (repair order) on your vehicle, and let him know that since it is an intermittant issue, and the vehicle is still currently under warranty, you want to have every instance that this issue occurs documented. Let him know that you will take the car and his card, and you will call him every time the issue occurs and you expect him to document their system with the complaint (You'll want to document this as well). Once you can reliably "force" the condition to occur, take the vehicle back to the dealer to have the issue addressed under warranty. The key to intermittant problems under warranty is documentation. If you can show documentation that you've been having an issue since the warranty was in effect, it shouldn't matter how far out of warranty you go, the manufacturer should honor it and repair the vehicle. If they're unwilling, pick the vehicle up and take it to another dealer and go through everything again. Make sure the second dealer is aware that you're there because you were getting unsatisfactory service from the first, and you're hoping for better from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted September 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Thanks everyone for the input. Really a frustrating situation. Especially since I'm in sales/customer service and never let a customer walk unhappy. What about taking a video of the issue as it is happening? I run into this at work when fixing computers. It is very difficult to fix an issue that is no longer occurring when I get the machine. Video is something I've not thought of. Great idea. I wish I would have done that Friday when it acted up as my wife drove into the garage and asked me to go try it. It was a PIA. You have 2 choices. 1: live with it 2: drop car off atdealer and tell the service manager to drive your car every day till it does it and they fix it and be prepared to be without a car for at least a week, maybe 2 I don't trust Dennis Hyundia one fucking bit. They lied flat out about the brakes needing done. Even went so far as to say there were millimeters left on them and they wouldn't recommending driving it. Kyle at PPC checked it out and found nearly 50% pad left. I was pissed and brought their write up into the dealership and asked for clarification. None was ever provided. They all danced well though. whats the car and who's the dealership? Hyundia Entorouge Minivan with 54k on the ODO. We've owned it since 4K on the clock and it's well maintained. Dennis Hyundai :fuuuu: Doh, Well, if they have already replaced the ignition/ cylinder you don't have much choice but to tell them to trade you cars for a week or two. I agree it's not likely the ignition switch, but could it be related to the gear shift, brake pedal, electronics elsewhere? Talk to your service writer, and tell him that you'd like to have him open a ticket (repair order) on your vehicle, and let him know that since it is an intermittant issue, and the vehicle is still currently under warranty, you want to have every instance that this issue occurs documented. Let him know that you will take the car and his card, and you will call him every time the issue occurs and you expect him to document their system with the complaint (You'll want to document this as well). Done and done. Three instances since the replacement and I am sure to email them and fax them and keep copies of both. I always call them too. Joe there is not happy to hear from me I'm sure. Once you can reliably "force" the condition to occur, take the vehicle back to the dealer to have the issue addressed under warranty. The key to intermittant problems under warranty is documentation. If you can show documentation that you've been having an issue since the warranty was in effect, it shouldn't matter how far out of warranty you go, the manufacturer should honor it and repair the vehicle. Good point and I agree. That's what pisses me off. It could lock up in the garage and not kick out the key, but I could in turn get back in the car, start it and drive to the dealer and then it could pop right out. I usually restart the car shift it out of gear, etc....a couple times to get it out. It's not so regular that I can force it though. We went nearly 2 weeks without an instance just recently, then Friday it got stuck. If they're unwilling, pick the vehicle up and take it to another dealer and go through everything again. Make sure the second dealer is aware that you're there because you were getting unsatisfactory service from the first, and you're hoping for better from them. I see your point, but I live near the one off Billingsley and while I completely understand the above, I shouldn't have to drive to another dealer. This dealer and the manufacturer should fix it. Overall, they called me again today (Hyundai Corporate) which led no where. They pretty much have convinced me to fuck them when it comes to buying another car. So far the vehicle has been fine. no complaints. Service from the dealer here is what is horrible. Corp. hasn't been much help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted September 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Honestly if they can't find the problem, then they can't find the problem. I don't think they are really at fault. Is it an automatic transmission car that you're having this problem on? Forgot your point.....yes, it's an auto. No the wheel isn't turned, locked, etc.... I don't buy they can't see it. They tell me that too when all they are going to see is the key stuck in the ignition. No different than I'm telling them. It's not like they can't troubleshoot it by my own words or a video vs actually seeing it. I can disconnect the battery and restart it or even just restart it and eventually get the key to pop out, so it's not like they can troubleshoot by doing anything different and have 100% assurance what they did will fix it. All I'm asking is they begin diagnosing the issue. :dumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinner Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 is there any TSB's for this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted September 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 is there any TSB's for this issue? No. They did replace two door sensors without seeing them fail. I guess recalls don't need to qualify. I think the video idea might work. Just doesn't make a damn bit of sense to call Roadside, cancel a day of court hearings and flat bed a car with a battery that is being drained to show them a stupid key stuck in the ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Dealerships have different reasons for different repairs. Common issues I just fix regardless if it acts up or not, but when I'm not pretty sure of what something is and it's not common I won't just hang parts on a car. Unfortunatly I have to send quite a few complaints out the door as "can not duplicate", I can understand being frustrated, but unless you want to leave your car with the dealer for extended periods of time to likely be told the same thing there isn't much to do. I'm not going to say the following as an excuse for the technician but, as a technician that gets paid flat rate and seeing as how GM will not pay me very much to diag a car especially if I can not find a part to replace I refuse to spend much time on things like this, in most cases after a half an hour I'm no longer getting paid anything and your car isn't acting up. Best thing to do as a customer is keep bitching, keep bringing it back, and start calling customer service. The noisey wheel will get the grease, because at this point the service manager will get involved and he will spend time with the car until it acts up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Dennis is the dealership that sold DJ his car and certified it (Certified used GM), then when the car started to rust it came out that they never did an inspection, or the paperwork, and the car did not qualify since it had been in an accident. I went with DJ to talk to them, Aaron masterson (who is a smug fucking prick) threatened to sue me, personally, before we got out the door. I felt he had been successfully trolled at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm going to stick up for the tech here..... The guy doesn't have a freaking crystal ball and if he starts your car 50 times in a row and they key doesn't get stuck he can't do shit.... You even just said it will go for weeks without a single problem..... you really have two choices dump it at the dealer untill they can duplicate the problem, or wait for it to get stuck and then have it towed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverAudiMike Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Put the car in park before removing key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Gump 9 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I had the same problem with my 97 4runner winter beater. I found that if you crank the steering wheel until it locks then the key will turn freely. The real problem was the key was too worn. New key fixed the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustlestiltskin Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm going to stick up for the tech here..... The guy doesn't have a freaking crystal ball and if he starts your car 50 times in a row and they key doesn't get stuck he can't do shit.... You even just said it will go for weeks without a single problem..... you really have two choices dump it at the dealer untill they can duplicate the problem, or wait for it to get stuck and then have it towed... Good Post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm going to stick up for the tech here..... The guy doesn't have a freaking crystal ball and if he starts your car 50 times in a row and they key doesn't get stuck he can't do shit.... You even just said it will go for weeks without a single problem..... you really have two choices dump it at the dealer untill they can duplicate the problem, or wait for it to get stuck and then have it towed... So where would he begin knowing the ignition switch has just been replaced? What's seeing a key stuck in there in person going to show him? Why not begin there? My point is the issue is happening, so there is something wrong. I had the same problem with my 97 4runner winter beater. I found that if you crank the steering wheel until it locks then the key will turn freely. The real problem was the key was too worn. New key fixed the problem. Not he steering wheel being turned/locked nor a worn key. The ignition unit was just replaced and the car re-keyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 So where would he begin knowing the ignition switch has just been replaced? What's seeing a key stuck in there in person going to show him? Why not begin there? My point is the issue is happening, so there is something wrong. Not he steering wheel being turned/locked nor a worn key. The ignition unit was just replaced and the car re-keyed. Have they replaced the P/N switch that prevents the key from being removed in gears other than Park ect. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky31186 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm going to stick up for the tech here..... The guy doesn't have a freaking crystal ball and if he starts your car 50 times in a row and they key doesn't get stuck he can't do shit.... You even just said it will go for weeks without a single problem..... you really have two choices dump it at the dealer untill they can duplicate the problem, or wait for it to get stuck and then have it towed... x10000.. Ive ran into this numerous times at toyota.. If there is no problem when its in the shop (which happens so many times) There isnt anything you can do.. BUT if its a common issue, I replace the part under warranty and go from there.. I agree with cordell.. Im flat rate... If I cant get it to act up within 30-45 min, im not working on it anymore... I diagnose it as no problem found. If it were to occur in shop, there are multiple things we can check while its in the shop...But if it works great everytime its in the shop, its frustrating, but nothing can be done.. And you dont need to keep records of EVERYTHING like Ziggy said.. Anytime it is in the shop, there is a RO open, and you get a print off of what your vehicle is in for.. Anytime you have an issue after your warranty is up, the service writer will look up history and know its covered because of previous issues.. I know how frustrated you are.. But the only thing you can do like others have said is hand over the keys and let the mechanic drive it... I wouldnt want to do that with my jeep.. but thats your only option really.. And the mechanic needs to drive it, not manager or service writer... They typically dont know much about diagnosing.. just what the mechanics tell them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky31186 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Did I miss if this was on the mazda or the ford? I can ask some mazda people tomorrow at work if they know of any issues with keys getting stuck.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Get a 'push button start' kit for the car? Id be pissed as hell but this might be your easiest solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Did I miss if this was on the mazda or the ford? I can ask some mazda people tomorrow at work if they know of any issues with keys getting stuck.. Hyundai Entourage Minivan. Ford has been a dream to work with. Only two issues, but one of them was simliar, a squeaky HVAC fan. They couldn't recreate it and said to just drive it and let them know if it comes back. It did and makes a squeaky noise off/on. Again, not all the time. They just replaced it and said no worries. It's been fine since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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