Need some family legal opinions

[XChris1632X]

First off, here is short story:

 

My wife has a child from a previous marriage. His biological father has never had much responsibility for him and has only had contact with him when his family pressured him to since he was born almost 6 years ago. He is in and out of jail for non payment of child support, robbery, and drugs. Her son only knows me as his father as I have been around since he can remember. He recognizes his biological father only as the guy who used to baby sit him when we had stuff to do. The guy turned all custody rights over to her over a year ago to save a hundred dollars a month on child support that he doesn't pay anyways. He said at that time that he wanted to sign over all parental rights and not be responsible for anything especially having to pay child support. We have had no contact with him since.

 

 

He cannot sign over his rights until someone is there to assume rights for him. I want to adopt him. For me to adopt him someone has to give up their rights.so they both have to happen in one motion. We have been planning to try to go through with this after the beginning of the year since we have just met all the criteria to be permitted to go through with adoption. We had previously been working with a lawyer who took care of the custody situation that went very smoothly. The only problem was that we were told the 900 it would take to complete that turned into 2500 dollars. She previously told us that the adoption process could go very smoothly as long as he signed over his rights and it would he around 1500 and I would have to keep that as a retainer. Recently she said our retainer now will have to be around 5000. I have never had any other experience with lawyers so I don't know if this is just how they all are but I don't think I want to use her again. I close on our house in 4 days so money is tighter than normal. I can't afford 5k to get this done.

 

Our biggest problem is that his biological fathers family is starting to harass us after a year of no contact. We keep getting phone calls and internet messages from his sisters about wanting to see him. So far we have ignored all after being advised by the lawyer to do so as they have no rights to him. My boy doesn't even remember them. We were even advised by a Columbus detective to refrain from contact due to the pending case against the "father" and the stuff he was involved in. The place where they live is not safe. I'm worried that now the family will get involved and push him not to sign over his rights and to fight it. Then we have to prove him an unfit father, which shouldn't be that difficult, but will skyrocket the price to do so as well as the time and effort and most importantly the chance of possible psychological stress on my kid. We just got past everything from a few years ago. Before he was 3, he didnt understand why his dad was mean and never could see him. I dont want him to remember any of that again. He is happy now

 

Sorry for the novel but does anyone have any personal experience with this? Anyone have a lawyer to recommend, or should I use the lawyer who already has experience with us and knows the case? I guess maybe all lawyers charge double of what they say. I would just like to try to know more accurately of what this is going to cost me and if there could be someone better to help. I just never trusted this other lawyer.

[wnaplay1647545503]

No matter the cost, it sounds like you should move forward with the adoption as fast as you can.

[XChris1632X]

I would love to, but with buying this house my available funds are limited for a little while.

[russian rocket]

I would love to, but with buying this house my available funds are limited for a little while.

 

do you have any family that could lend you some money temporarily?

[KillJoy]

Why must someone take over responsibility as soon as it is given up?

 

There are plenty of single mothers who have not listed the Father. Why MUST there be two?

 

KillJoy

[Snowflake]

system is seriously flawed, its all about the benjamins

[XChris1632X]

do you have any family that could lend you some money temporarily?

 

If it comes down to it yes. I just hate borrowing money at all. It is also hard to know if I have enough to get it done, or even know how much I would need to borrow when the lawyer can't give an accurate estimate. That's what I need more than anything. If she said it will cost 2k I would move on it tomorrow. If she said up to 5k, I would say fuck vacation this year and get it done now. The problem is I am worried after last time that her estimate of xxxx dollars will turn into 10k. Then I would have to borrow a little. And that seems high as it is. I will do anything for either of my kids but it isn't in their best interest for me to throw money away either.

 

 

Why must someone take over responsibility as soon as it is given up?

 

There are plenty of single mothers who have not listed the Father. Why MUST there be two?

 

KillJoy

 

Because as they see it now, even though he isn't doing shit, they still have someone to hold accountable. He just got out of jail for 30 days again for non payment. He would rather go to jail for 30 days a year than get a job. He lives of just 125.00 a month VA disability check and drug money.

[TTQ B4U]

system is seriously flawed, its all about the benjamins

 

Not entirely true. My wife is a family lawyer running her own business and I know first hand she is more than fair when it comes to fees. There are several here on CR that can vouch to that. She as other attorneys do have to make a living though.

 

Lots in the OP thread that can lead to fees changing. I will say if the attorney tried to turn such a case into a flat fee situation they were either dumb or misunderstood. These cases are most always billed hourly. Often time just one change in the case can extend the time needed for it and thus increase costs.

 

The retainer is there to insure payment. It goes into a trust account. Anytime an attorney puts in time they bill the client and collect from the trust account. To continue billing when there is no money in the trust account is risky and IMO foolish. My wife has done it but rarely if ever gets paid on time for the amount she provides after that. It's most always a struggle. Thus why its rare and again foolish.

 

Sounds like variables in this case caused the attorney to reevaluate the time needed and thus he/she is being upfront about what it's likely going to cost ahead of time. Clients are protected too as they can walk at anytime and be reimbursed any unused trust money.

 

My insight is to consider the work that's been done and if you are happy with it. Understand that the attorney likely has quite a bit of work yet to do. They also likely know your financial situation and honestly are just being wise to collect a retainer. They are running a business after all.

 

If you are not happy with their work, you mint want to consult another attorney, however most everyone, based on the info you provided, are going to ask for at least 8-10 hrs upfront. That's easily $2,500-$5,000.

[TTQ B4U]

It is also hard to know if I have enough to get it done, or even know how much I would need to borrow when the lawyer can't give an accurate estimate. That's what I need more than anything.

 

In all fairness just knowing what I do from you post this case has a lot of variables involved and there's no way for the attorney to know what "might happen" to impact costs. Sure there's a range but again, just one change and a custody case can go from being pretty cut (which none are) really, to complicated and lengthy. Your third paragrapgh is filled with issues that could easily and likely are escalating the costs

[Dr. Pomade]

There's a lot that we don't know regarding the particulars, so I'll try to offer advice while offering the caveat that it could change if I knew more.

 

The OP seems concerned that the retainers he is being quoted keep becoming inflated. I'd be concerned about that as well. The inflation might be legitimate - as pdgpgpgpgp has intimated - or might not be, which is - I think - the OP's concern. Regardless, here's what you can do:

 

1. Ask your current lawyer to explain the difference in the retainers, and ask what exactly you can hope to accomplish once you hand over a retainer. Just be up front about it: "Hey, I don't have a lot of cash, but I want this done. Tell me what you need to get it done and let me know why, if I give you the money you ask for, you might not be able to get it done." The goal: make an informed decision about whether to stay with this attorney or not. You can't make that decision until you have information, like what exactly the retainer will be used for, what can expect to happen, etc.

 

2. Shop around for another attorney. I have a potential referral, if you're interested - just PM me.

 

Also, kudos to the OP for trying to do something right in the world. Too little of this going around nowadays, it seems.

[Trouble Maker]

Having a hard time feeling sorry for the OPs money issues when he has 8 vehicles listed in his sig.

[Dr. Pomade]

Having a hard time feeling sorry for the OPs money issues when he has 8 vehicles listed in his sig.

 

Even if he's a billionaire he should still be concerned about inflated retainer fees.

[BloodRed]

Wow lots of stuff there that could make the case a lot more complicated than originally planned. Can't say I have much I can add, but my wife and I started the process when we were going to adopt a baby and it went wrong very quickly. Anyway, a good friend of mine is a family attorney and I would recommend him any day. Let me know if you are interested in his contact info.

[Trouble Maker]

Even if he's a billionaire he should still be concerned about inflated retainer fees.

 

I get spending your money wisely, I get getting your moneys worth. I have a thread right now that's about whether to drop full coverage on one of our cars. That's only $80/6 months.

 

I also get lawyer fees spiraling out of control. I've seen it happen to friends first hand. Then they feel like they are locked in because they've already spent $10k when the original quote was $5k and feel like that firm knows the case.

 

I also think if this guy had some more money sitting in the bank by either sacrificing buying a house later or selling some toys this thread very well may not exist.

[RS69]

Not entirely true. My wife is a family lawyer running her own business and I know first hand she is more than fair when it comes to fees. There are several here on CR that can vouch to that. She as other attorneys do have to make a living though.

 

Lots in the OP thread that can lead to fees changing. I will say if the attorney tried to turn such a case into a flat fee situation they were either dumb or misunderstood. These cases are most always billed hourly. Often time just one change in the case can extend the time needed for it and thus increase costs.

 

The retainer is there to insure payment. It goes into a trust account. Anytime an attorney puts in time they bill the client and collect from the trust account. To continue billing when there is no money in the trust account is risky and IMO foolish. My wife has done it but rarely if ever gets paid on time for the amount she provides after that. It's most always a struggle. Thus why its rare and again foolish.

 

Sounds like variables in this case caused the attorney to reevaluate the time needed and thus he/she is being upfront about what it's likely going to cost ahead of time. Clients are protected too as they can walk at anytime and be reimbursed any unused trust money.

 

My insight is to consider the work that's been done and if you are happy with it. Understand that the attorney likely has quite a bit of work yet to do. They also likely know your financial situation and honestly are just being wise to collect a retainer. They are running a business after all.

 

If you are not happy with their work, you mint want to consult another attorney, however most everyone, based on the info you provided, are going to ask for at least 8-10 hrs upfront. That's easily $2,500-$5,000.

 

Well said..

[XChris1632X]

There's a lot that we don't know regarding the particulars, so I'll try to offer advice while offering the caveat that it could change if I knew more.

 

The OP seems concerned that the retainers he is being quoted keep becoming inflated. I'd be concerned about that as well. The inflation might be legitimate - as pdgpgpgpgp has intimated - or might not be, which is - I think - the OP's concern. Regardless, here's what you can do:

 

1. Ask your current lawyer to explain the difference in the retainers, and ask what exactly you can hope to accomplish once you hand over a retainer. Just be up front about it: "Hey, I don't have a lot of cash, but I want this done. Tell me what you need to get it done and let me know why, if I give you the money you ask for, you might not be able to get it done." The goal: make an informed decision about whether to stay with this attorney or not. You can't make that decision until you have information, like what exactly the retainer will be used for, what can expect to happen, etc.

 

You are spot on. Inflation of the cost has been my biggest issue. I have had little experience with lawyers so the problem for me was knowing whether or not the way things were previously handled was fair or not.

 

An example of an issue was that $600 of the inflated price was due to my attorney not knowing that we would have to go to court over the custody change. She said that this was something different in Union County that she was not aware of. My feeling was that I went to her for expert help. I surely did not know that or could have prevented it. I was expecting the expert to know the laws and the practice of this situation like she projected she did. Then after much more money was added on for various things and we were at the end of everything I still had a little over $500 dollar balance in the retainer. She had assured us a few weeks before that she wouldn't need anymore and that we were basically done and well under the retainer. Here I thought I was going to get money back and I got a bill for another $300. Honestly, I don't even remember the facts on why. At that point I was so exhausted that I didn't question it and figured that arguing with an attorney wouldn't get me anywhere anyways.

 

2. Shop around for another attorney. I have a potential referral, if you're interested - just PM me.

 

I am going to send you a PM

 

Also, kudos to the OP for trying to do something right in the world. Too little of this going around nowadays, it seems.

 

Thanks. I can't even explain my feelings towards this boy. As far as I am concerned he is every bit of mine and I will not let someone jeopardize his future and well being. He wasn't made by me but I am his father. I have not done everything that I have because it is something right, but just because I couldn't imagine doing it any differently.

 

Having a hard time feeling sorry for the OPs money issues when he has 8 vehicles listed in his sig.

 

Just to clear things up, I do not have money issues. I have a decent bit of money that I am always sitting on. Other than the new house, the only debt I have is a bit owed on my boat. No other payments at all.

 

The problem in this situation is that I was planning and budgeting to go through with this after the start of 2012 and realistically saw it happening come late spring. With everything going the way it has been recently I am starting to feel that I need to take care of this right away and not waste any time. My budgeting for this time of the year makes it harder to feel comfortable with that. The biggest problem isn't that it could cost 5k to do so. I would write a check tomorrow. I am worried that after the way things went last time, it would easily flow right past 5,000 and who knows where it would stop. Eventually I could run out of money just like everyone else. What if I was in the middle of a drawn out case and the attorney says she needs a few more thousand? Then do I just walk away saying I have no more to give and worry about it next year? While 10k or higher is not likely to be spent on fighting white trash with no money, it is the unknown and possibility that makes me me uneasy

 

I would spend 10k on either one of my kids if I had to but I would rather it not take that. I would also not feel comfortable in taking that much out of our finances. In the end, I still have to ensure that their future is in good standing and that I am prepared and able to take care of them regardless of what comes my way.

 

I get spending your money wisely, I get getting your moneys worth. I have a thread right now that's about whether to drop full coverage on one of our cars. That's only $80/6 months.

 

I also get lawyer fees spiraling out of control. I've seen it happen to friends first hand. Then they feel like they are locked in because they've already spent $10k when the original quote was $5k and feel like that firm knows the case.

 

I also think if this guy had some more money sitting in the bank by either sacrificing buying a house later or selling some toys this thread very well may not exist.

 

I would sell everyone of my toys in a heartbeat if needed to take care of this. However, it is also not realistic to think that tomorrow, in the dead of winter, someone is going to give me what I need to get out of my boat. Giving it away for half of it's value is not productive to my family either. Being realistic, I am trying to prepare to do something right now. I have a good bit of money in the bank. Like I said though, it has a limit like everyone elses. How much money should a person have in the bank to feel comfortable with an attorneys who virtually has no limit to the amount of money they can take? Buying our house is something that is just as important to our family's future and well being. You have to consider the possible situation that I may be in as far as the deal I got along with interest rate and so on.

 

In all fairness just knowing what I do from you post this case has a lot of variables involved and there's no way for the attorney to know what "might happen" to impact costs. Sure there's a range but again, just one change and a custody case can go from being pretty cut (which none are) really, to complicated and lengthy. Your third paragrapgh is filled with issues that could easily and likely are escalating the costs

 

I understand a lot of this. Infact, I understand better now after reading some others opinions. Like I have said a few times, I have had little exerience with this type of stuff. I obviously know that the number 1 concern of an attorney is to make money at the end of the day. I just wasn't sure if this particular one had been doing it in a fair manor. It is especially hard to understand for someone like me who has worked his whole life in fields where most of the time a quote is given to complete a job and it is MY responsibility to know that I understand from expert experience how to quote the job accurately as to profit upon completion while ensuring that I stay within the price given. I never felt as if I could really trust that my childs best interest was the final goal with this particular attorney. I felt more like everything was a opportunity to charge more. It is just a very unsettling situation that does not carry much reassurance at all.

[TTQ B4U]

I am worried that after the way things went last time, it would easily flow right past 5,000 and who knows where it would stop. Eventually I could run out of money just like everyone else. What if I was in the middle of a drawn out case and the attorney says she needs a few more thousand? Then do I just walk away saying I have no more to give and worry about it next year? While 10k or higher is not likely to be spent on fighting white trash with no money, it is the unknown and possibility that makes me me uneasy

You're right, you could shell out $5k and the other side could continue to fight and keep you in court for weeks on end. Don't blame your attorney though as they have no control over what the other side is going to do and how much money they are will to spend to tie you up in attorney's fees on your end. Happens all the time, thus yes, many cases go on for years.

 

How much money should a person have in the bank to feel comfortable with an attorneys who virtually has no limit to the amount of money they can take?

In all fairness, attorney's don't take your money. They bill you for their time / services they provide. They can't put a limit on how much time it's going to take as they have very little control over the variables involved. Again, your situation isn't a simple case. Custody battles are tough, when you're not the legal parent it's even more difficult mix it up with a colorful history and an opposition that is combative in a number of ways including in the court system and the question isn't how much you should have in the bank, it's whether you're willing to do whatever it takes to win. No one can tell you a number. I've literally seen such cases go upwards of $40k in one year.

 

I obviously know that the number 1 concern of an attorney is to make money at the end of the day.

 

I wouldn't say the number one concern is to make money. Is running an efficient successful business wrong? No. Is making money the number one concern? No.

 

My wife and I operate on the belief that you do what you love and be the best you can be and stand for something. Do that and run a business wisely and the money will follow. Money isn't the why we do what we do, it's what comes from doing it well. She runs her practice with the best interest of her clients in mind. Kids normally trump parents as honestly, in most of her cases, parents fight to fight and usually over money and emotion but it's rare the litmus test ever shows the child's best interest. They say one thing have good intent, but their actions don't always match.

 

It is especially hard to understand for someone like me who has worked his whole life in fields where most of the time a quote is given to complete a job and it is MY responsibility to know that I understand from expert experience how to quote the job accurately as to profit upon completion while ensuring that I stay within the price given.

Manual labor is way different than practicing law. Thus the reason fee agreements are structured as they are. Scope creep is a way of life as a lawyer. Nothing is ever cut and dry in family law. I've yet to see a family lawyer do much of anything but a simple dissolution for a flat-fee. Custody and divorce cases are always per hour. In the fields there aren't as many variables and even with those that exist, it rarely ever takes as long to complete a task as it can for a lawyer. I've seen cases go on years.

I never felt as if I could really trust that my child's best interest was the final goal with this particular attorney. I felt more like everything was a opportunity to charge more. It is just a very unsettling situation that does not carry much reassurance at all.

My advice is to then take your mind and focus off the costs and look at what really drives the lawyer tempering things with the fact that they run a business within the law. Emotions for them can't be allowed into their world. What you're seeing in terms of charging is again, their business. All costs are passed on to the client. Normal. Same is done in any business, it's just more transparent in the legal system. It would be a foolish move to do otherwise. My parting advice is beware of a lawyer who leads with hopes of doing things on the cheap. Hourly fees may be low, but if they promise hours involved will be xxx and use that to lure you... run.

 

Further insight would be to find an attorney who actually has experiences in your type of case in the county where it's being tried. She likely was caught off guard with how things are done in Union County. That one issue wouldn't likely have changed your position if you did know about it (from what you say) in all honesty, you can't say then really fault the attorney for costs involved.

 

Good luck.

Edited December 13, 2011 by TTQ B4U