nurkvinny Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 recently started buying cars out right so that I can be more like Nurkvinny and get new-to-me cars when ever I want. Wait, what? Didn't read the whole thread, but I know a lot of what you're feeling. We bought our home in late 2005 at the tippy-top of the pricing curve. When I see what I can buy today for what I paid for this place, it is VERY tempting to take some loss here to get into a badass-to-me home with more room for all of these people that my wife keeps growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Times are hard. P.s. My neighbor foreclosed and the guy that moved in payed $75k less for the house!!! WTF!!! Nothing makes sense. If Im responsible I pay for it. If Im irresponsible I get rewarded... is this real life!?!?! We bought in May and in less.than a.year our house lost 15k in value. This is a totally different world.we live in now. If you are going to.do.a.strategic default do it now before the government finds a way to legislate them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wait, what? Didn't read the whole thread, but I know a lot of what you're feeling. We bought our home in late 2005 at the tippy-top of the pricing curve. When I see what I can buy today for what I paid for this place, it is VERY tempting to take some loss here to get into a badass-to-me home with more room for all of these people that my wife keeps growing. Nurkvinny flip a car philosophy: (as I have seen over the years) Buy x car for y Have fun with x car Sale x car for y amount Replace with z car for y amount rinse and repeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wheres the personal responsibility in this country? Always quick to blame the other guy for their mistakes (not saying you but in general). If someone doesn't understand the terms of their loan or the risk their getting into don't buy or have the common sense to seek proper advice. If someone buys something they cant afford thats their own damn fault. If you don't think banks were purposefully and systemically lending in a predatory manner you are a fool. If you don't think this should be illegal you are also a fool. The free unfettered market being able to 'save us' or even being logically and morally correct is a farce. People are greedy and if given the opportunity some will take advantage of others less informed to make a profit. Even if that situation is short sighted and will fuck everyone in the end. There needs to be checks and balances in place to make sure that immoral things don't happen. There needs to be checks and balances in place to make sure the system doesn't collapse and fuck everyone in the process. All so some rich people could get richer, faster, on the backs of everyone else. Yes, the people who took the band loans should have known better. BUT they are the least culpable in these situations. The banks really should have known better (they are the experts), and the government really should have known better. They have more responsibility in this than some average person, lay-man. I have less dog in this fight than most. I have 0 debts, I'm not a home owner. I kept my job through all of this, though my wages were cut for a year and frozen for another year after that. I'm actually going to benefit from this because I'm buying my first house this year. But I realize that if it weren't for what the banks and 'wall st' (for the lack of a better term) did to cause this financial collapse we would be much better off as a country, as a society. Brian's done nothing wrong in this situation and he's fucked because of other peoples mistakes. No, not mistakes, that would imply an accident. It's more correct to say their reprehensible, and purposefully reckless actions. No, I don't advocate him defaulting if he has another choice, and I believe staying in his house and paying what he's agreed to is a choice. I also wouldn't blame him for doing it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 P.S. That Guy and I have exchanged pm's and all is good in the world. I used him as an outlet for my frustration and could have approached it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Why would I take it out of their name until I was able to get a good rate? How are my credit cards going to be impacted? I dont believe in credit cards. I have 3 cars and recently started buying cars out right so that I can be more like Nurkvinny and get new-to-me cars when ever I want. Dont read to far into it. The only real issue is would you really feel comfortable paying someone $40k for nothing, when you could put that towards something of value. What if they became unable to care for themselves and had to be placed in assisted living, or even worse if they passed away and the home now becomes property of their estate. I'm just trying to be objective so you see sides of it you may not have considered. I also had a friend go through the same thing. He did a short sale. He was also then taxed on the 40k that the bank forgave as "income". There are instances where short sales/ forclosures are the right answer, but from what I can collect of your situation, your's isn't one of them. But in the end it's your decision and if anyone else doesn't like it, tell them to kiss your ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Says who? Your lender, most loans prohibit this, most are for the the owner to live in the house and state it. They can ask for the balance of the note if they find out you live in a different house. We would have to refinance to a different loan to rent our house out. Sure you could break your contract.... Edited January 30, 2012 by Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you don't think banks were purposefully and systemically lending in a predatory manner you are a fool. If you don't think this should be illegal you are also a fool. The free unfettered market being able to 'save us' or even being logically and morally correct is a farce. People are greedy and if given the opportunity some will take advantage of others less informed to make a profit. Even if that situation is short sighted and will fuck everyone in the end. There needs to be checks and balances in place to make sure that immoral things don't happen. There needs to be checks and balances in place to make sure the system doesn't collapse and fuck everyone in the process. All so some rich people could get richer, faster, on the backs of everyone else. Yes, the people who took the band loans should have known better. BUT they are the least culpable in these situations. The banks really should have known better (they are the experts), and the government really should have known better. They have more responsibility in this than some average person, lay-man. I have less dog in this fight than most. I have 0 debts, I'm not a home owner. I kept my job through all of this, though my wages were cut for a year and frozen for another year after that. I'm actually going to benefit from this because I'm buying my first house this year. But I realize that if it weren't for what the banks and 'wall st' (for the lack of a better term) did to cause this financial collapse we would be much better off as a country, as a society. Brian's done nothing wrong in this situation and he's fucked because of other peoples mistakes. No, not mistakes, that would imply an accident. It's more correct to say their reprehensible, and purposefully reckless actions. No, I don't advocate him defaulting if he has another choice, and I believe staying in his house and paying what he's agreed to is a choice. I also wouldn't blame him for doing it either. Damn, its like you're in my head. What if they became unable to care for themselves and had to be placed in assisted living, or even worse if they passed away and the home now becomes property of their estate. I'm just trying to be objective so you see sides of it you may not have considered. I also had a friend go through the same thing. He did a short sale. He was also then taxed on the 40k that the bank forgave as "income". There are instances where short sales/ forclosures are the right answer, but from what I can collect of your situation, your's isn't one of them. But in the end it's your decision and if anyone else doesn't like it, tell them to kiss your ass. Very good points. My in-laws are wealthy. When I say get a house, I mean they would buy a house and I would pay them rent. Then I would take a loan out in a decade so they could sale it back to me. They wont help with this house because they feel the bank took advantage of us and refuse to pad the companies pockets.. and if they died tomorrow I would be rich and get their homes in Delaware and Florida. My end goal is to improve the house enough to where a short sale isnt too much of a loss and they approve it. The problem is getting them to give me a number to shoot for. If they count $40K as income that would boost me to a different tax bracket, $20k wouldnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I just skimmed this thread, but FWIW, unless you're in some financial straights of some sort, I'd stick it out and figure out a way to pay it off sooner so that you're not paying all that interest. I've seen comments in here that the bank didn't cause all this, when in fact the banks did. The entire housing crisis and bubble of false values and ease of attaining the American Dream, that was fake all along is the cause of the banks. That said, the market is correcting itself. That is the owners that bought too much are paying the price and the value of homes is going back to what they should have been. We lucked out and bought fairly low and at the same time bought other properties low. Rolling the dice and investing is something we would have cashed in big on if we were able to do it even just 5yrs earlier, but at least we were able to pay ours off and even when we had a mortgage, weren't owned by it. Maybe it's just me, but I'd never want to have a mortgage of $1,800-$3,000 per month. Especially for 30yrs. That's an insane amount of interest and sure as hell don't want to be 65 and still have a mortgage. Our goal all along was buy smaller, invest the extra money we have, pay off the home and live cash rich. Thus the only bills we have now are utilities and tuition. I wouldn't trade that for a huge home even 10 years ago. The freedom is well worth it. To give you an idea, friends of ours with a similar size new home they bought the same time we did paid over $900mo more than us just to live there. They put all kinds of upgrades in where ours already had them thanks to the previous owner. Adding it all up, my friend paid over $150k more over 12 yrs than we did. That difference is why we paid ours off in less than 15yrs. Cliffs: stick it out and if you need some assistance due to being a spot....PM me....Tamie might be able to meet and discuss things. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 IIf I tell someone a turd is work $1000.00 and they can buy it for $800.00 is it my fault they bought the turd on my valuation alone? You must not have heard the part about lenders putting, typically higher risk people into worse loans to make more money off of them. Pushing them towards larger loans knowing they were going to default. Illegally and knowingly incorrectly labeling debt as good when re-bundling this debt that was bad. This was purposeful and systemic, all to make a quick (billions of) buck(s). I don't see what you don't understand about the lenders having a pretty big part in the mess we are in right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe it's just me, but I'd never want to have a mortgage of $1,800-$3,000 per month. Especially for 30yrs. That's an insane amount of interest and sure as hell don't want to be 65 and still have a mortgage. Our goal all along was buy smaller, invest the extra money we have, pay off the home and live cash rich. Thus the only bills we have now are utilities and tuition. I wouldn't trade that for a huge home even 10 years ago. The freedom is well worth it. Tim does your mother live with you along with your 2 kids in a 1500 square foot house? I bet not. Do my math. We have to have a much bigger house. 3.8% is stupid low right now. 2500 a month is VERY affordable to us. We were smart 10 years ago and bought a small house that was easy to make the payment, it was just the wife and me for 6 years. The reality is my car payment is almost as much as my house note LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim does your mother live with you along with your 2 kids in a 1500 square foot house? I bet not. Do my math. We have to have a much bigger house. 3.8% is stupid low right now. 2500 a month is VERY affordable to us. We were smart 10 years ago and bought a small house that was easy to make the payment, it was just the wife and me for 6 years. The reality is my car payment is almost as much as my house note LOL Im different in that Im paying $1000 a month for a house worth $500 a month. That extra money could be added onto my kids college funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I really do appreciate all the help everyone. Ive had a bit of a struggle with this for a while, good to see Im not alone. Who do I pay the copay to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 P.S. That Guy and I have exchanged pm's and all is good in the world. I used him as an outlet for my frustration and could have approached it differently. That's cool. Maybe I'm using him as a punching bag too as it's beyond frustrating to see good people like you trying to do the right thing and getting fucked by a situation 100% created by others (irresponsible lenders, borrowers and government). For me in the end this is just a debate. There is no black and white in this area. It's what's 'fair & right' and everyone is going to have a different definition of that. I think it's a little more black and white in this area than say, what should we tax people, but it's still not 100% cut-and-dry. If it were, there would be no debate. I still think he is wrong though. :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim does your mother live with you along with your 2 kids in a 1500 square foot house? I bet not. Do my math. We have to have a much bigger house. 3.8% is stupid low right now. 2500 a month is VERY affordable to us. We were smart 10 years ago and bought a small house that was easy to make the payment, it was just the wife and me for 6 years. The reality is my car payment is almost as much as my house note LOL Mother no, but we have two kids and tons of stuff. To me it was far cheaper to add the lower level and make it nice. Ours is a full basement so it added another 960sq. ft $11k + $6k in AV fun stuff and it was a far better for us. We even dropped $50mo on storage unit for a couple years. Still cheaper than bigger mortgage. Hey look, it wasn't directed at you, but in general just my opinion of which you know I have one. Call me biased because of our position and what my wife does for a living. She sees clients all day long and has for years who are owned by their home and possessions with nearly nothing saved for retirement. Again, not directed at you just a general statement. We just are doing all we can to stick to our plan to have $XXX in savings and investments to allow for $20-30 years of living after we achieve our plan to both stop working in our 50's. I'll skimp all day to make that happen and ever quarter we meet with our guy to find out what if anything we need to adjust to make that our reality. Back on point for Brian, I'd still stick it out and make the most of it so that when you do find it time to move on, you have equity and good credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Who do I pay the copay to? All donations can be made directly to our new not-for-profit "Make Brian Wagner Less Angry and Drunk for The Good of The Kids Who Can't Read Good and Stuff Organization" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Everyone's situation is different, doesn't change the fact that right now the amount of house you get for the $$ and low interest is too good to pass up. I bet in 30-40 years my kids will be like, can you believe how cheap mom and dad bought this house for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Mother no, but we have two kids and tons of stuff. To me it was far cheaper to add the lower level and make it nice. Ours is a full basement so it added another 960sq. ft $11k + $6k in AV fun stuff and it was a far better for us. We even dropped $50mo on storage unit for a couple years. Still cheaper than bigger mortgage. Who was it that said the joke about getting a house so you can get more stuff so you have to buy a bigger house to put more stuff in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Im different in that Im paying $1000 a month for a house worth $500 a month. That extra money could be added onto my kids college funds. so what's market value of your home now? not the auditors value, but real market value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim we live in a split level, we do not have a basement to finish, the third level is basically my mom's apartment. That leaves us with a family room/kitchen (middle floor)and 3 tiny bedrooms(upstairs). 1 full bath for everyone. Our kitchen table is in our family room. It's stupid small. Perfect for a young couple as a starter house. Now it's unbearable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 That's cool. Maybe I'm using him as a punching bag too as it's beyond frustrating to see good people like you trying to do the right thing and getting fucked by a situation 100% created by others (irresponsible lenders, borrowers and government). For me in the end this is just a debate. There is no black and white in this area. It's what's 'fair & right' and everyone is going to have a different definition of that. I think it's a little more black and white in this area than say, what should we tax people, but it's still not 100% cut-and-dry. If it were, there would be no debate. I still think he is wrong though. :gabe: Not Cheif, That Guy.. his username is That Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) so what's market value of your home now? not the auditors value, but real market value? Market Value is $150. It was listed at $200k when I took the loan out on it, but that was a bunch of B.S. I talked them down to $180 and thought I was getting a steal The joke was on me At two different points my wife lost her job and we have to put things on hold. One we used the insurance we paid for (you know the one where they can put payments on hold in the event of a life event like lost wages). The other the company misunderstood us and didnt use this. We didnt realize we were past due on the mortgage until we got a letter in the mail telling us we were at risk of foreclosure. When we called back they were all like "oops", and we started paying. At the time since we were past due they added the missed payments on top of the base rate and lowered our interest rate like .05%. When asking if they could fix it in a way that didnt impact our payments they said no. Even though I paid for the insurance for events like a lost job it was put back on me for not being more clear when I called in. I just sucked it up and have been paying the increased amount after calling and escalating repeatedly with no luck. When I found out about it I called and attempted to do right by them, but couldnt pay multiple months of mortgage all at once (because I was the only one working). I took a credit hit, and a monthly payment hit. There was no back dating the job lost insurance or working with me outside of giving me what was given to people at risk of foreclosing. The little bit of an interest decrease and a have a good life was all they could offer me. You could tell the lady wanted to help but her supervisor kept shooting her down. Edited January 30, 2012 by V8 Beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim we live in a split level, we do not have a basement to finish, the third level is basically my mom's apartment. That leaves us with a family room/kitchen (middle floor)and 3 tiny bedrooms(upstairs). 1 full bath for everyone. Our kitchen table is in our family room. It's stupid small. Perfect for a young couple as a starter house. Now it's unbearable. I know man, I feel it too. Believe me, I struggle with the wife to hold ourselves back on things. Right now it's hard not to drop a ton into some upgrades and improvements. I'm like Clay (and I feel I can say this about him) that I hate spending money (on certain things), those being ones that include high dollar commitments like mortgages. I have a few years on you and gotta say I can't see me working forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Also Tim putting an elderly woman in a basement is a bad idea. Mobility issues, and safety are the top two in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilbWs6 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Who do I pay the copay to? Tilley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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