TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Also Tim putting an elderly woman in a basement is a bad idea. Mobility issues, and safety are the top two in my mind. I hear ya. Save the basement for the girlfriend that is tied up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Chief2011647545501 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 You must not have heard the part about lenders putting, typically higher risk people into worse loans to make more money off of them. Pushing them towards larger loans knowing they were going to default. Illegally and knowingly incorrectly labeling debt as good when re-bundling this debt that was bad. This was purposeful and systemic, all to make a quick (billions of) buck(s). I don't see what you don't understand about the lenders having a pretty big part in the mess we are in right now. Its simple economics when it comes down to it. The banks didn’t value the homes the free market did. If there was no supply and a large demand prices would increase, if there was a large supply and no demand there would be a price decrease. The value of an asset is not a guarantied price and is subject to personal opinion and multiple outside factors that can be skewed. When you purchase an asset you take the risk of it being devalued due to unforeseen market conditions. No one said Brian did anything wrong, he simply took a risk of purchasing an asset at a price he saw as favorable with current market conditions. Furthermore, not once did I say there were no illegal practices going on or that I agreed with their lending practices. Even with that said the lenders didn’t force clients into signing the papers when they didn’t do their own due diligence. It's sad that America has become the land of blame others for our mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Do some of you posting know the the lender that writes the loan almost always sells it to another lender in less than a year? See the issue now? They make a small amount of cash and leave the big banks with loan they swindled someone into buying. The orginal lender is likely gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Do some of you posting know the the lender that writes the loan almost always sells it to another lender in less than a year? See the issue now? They make a small amount of cash and leave the big banks with loan they swindled someone into buying. The orginal lender is likely gone. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ours was sold in less than 60 days in 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Market Value is $150. It was listed at $200k when I took the loan out on it, but that was a bunch of B.S. I talked them down to $180 and thought I was getting a steal The joke was on me Gotcha. So you're about $30 under and in payment terms perhaps $400 below market. All said, you're feeling as if you're overpaying for what you have and against the market you might be (today) that however could change in 10yrs and even if not, in 10yrs, you'll be past the halfway point of your note so equity might not even come into play. The only time any of this is going to really matter is when it's time to sell. Buy a new car and you're upside down for 42-48 months, but you still enjoy it the same and continue making payments. All in all, better than a Chpt 7 or 11 on the books. At two different points my wife lost her job and we have to put things on hold. Keep in mind that could happen again to either one of you too. Not a great feeling I know. I got let go in Aug 2008. Sucked big time. Landed just the same quickly but still, the only thing holding my sanity was our financial position. Not so for many. Thus to Ben's point, it's a great time to buy, but it's also the shittiest economy in how long? Risky that's for sure. Not sure I'd want to buy another house and have another mortgage. they added the missed payments on top of the base rate and lowered our interest rate like .5%. When asking if they could fix it in a way that didnt impact our payments they said no. Even though I paid for the insurance for events like a lost job it was put back on me for not being more clear when I called in. I just sucked it up and have been paying the increased amount. Clarity....okay, so I follow what they did and it sounds like you may be pursuing how to remedy the "oops" thing? Either way now, you're sucking it up and paying more than you were to account for the hiccup in life that came along more than once. I'd work on pounding them until they address the insurance thing as that sounds like what's contributed to this matter significantly. IDK....you asked for opinions, so I'm giving mine. You've heard the saying that " it's cheaper to keep her " and that may also hold true for your situation if you can afford it. Looking at all this along with your interest in a new car/toy.....again, IDK, it's your call. I'm way more for being one to live below the means and get free of debt quickly vs making new debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim's mantra: Live like no one else WILL today.... So you can live like no one else CAN later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Even with that said the lenders didn’t force clients into signing the papers when they didn’t do their own due diligence. It's sad that America has become the land of blame others for our mistakes. I'm with you in terms of accountability, but in the end, the lenders did contribute to the market value of homes by floating "everyone gets done loans" thus increasing demand for new builds and existing. They controlled both the supply of customers willing to buy if they could and made that fake dream their reality. They also, by doing that and other things, drove the prices and values upwards. So true, while they didn't force anyone to make a decision, they absolutely controlled the variables those people saw when signing. They made the American Dream appear to be real and the pipe dream of upwardly rising values just as real looking. Both of which were bullshit and many of those out there wouldn't ever have been able to see that. They made poor decisions on misinformation controlled and manipulated by the banking system and lenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim's mantra: Live like no one else WILL today.... So you can live like no one else CAN later. Do you not see it as a good thing? My wife and I are not alone. There are a lot of others that live well below their means. We however, make up a very small percentage of Americans it seems. I grew up in that type of household and gotta say the things I remember are this: My parents always paid in cash and we never were not able to buy something or do anything. Mom barely ever worked other than to keep busy and what not. Dad wasn't a high paid businessman, but was a smart investor that worked hard. My parents have been very well off for many years and retired in their 50's with me still in college they paid for. I want that a more. I was a little kid when I heard my dad talk about "it's not how much you make, it's about how much you save and invest" The reality is this, we rarely spend or have spent any of my wife's income. Everyone out there can save the same as we do but either choose not to or chose not to and put themselves in a position where now they can't. My mantra as the father of the group (yes I am one of the older guys here) is to do just that. Live on one income and don't just save but invest the other. Do that and call me on your 23 anniversary. Yeah, my wife and I are approaching 23....Wholly shit! BTW, she grew up in Caldwell, father worked in Cambridge. Small world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Gotcha. So you're about $30 under and in payment terms perhaps $400 below market. All said, you're feeling as if you're overpaying for what you have and against the market you might be (today) that however could change in 10yrs and even if not, in 10yrs, you'll be past the halfway point of your note so equity might not even come into play. The only time any of this is going to really matter is when it's time to sell. Buy a new car and you're upside down for 42-48 months, but you still enjoy it the same and continue making payments. All in all, better than a Chpt 7 or 11 on the books. Keep in mind that could happen again to either one of you too. Not a great feeling I know. I got let go in Aug 2008. Sucked big time. Landed just the same quickly but still, the only thing holding my sanity was our financial position. Not so for many. Thus to Ben's point, it's a great time to buy, but it's also the shittiest economy in how long? Risky that's for sure. Not sure I'd want to buy another house and have another mortgage. Clarity....okay, so I follow what they did and it sounds like you may be pursuing how to remedy the "oops" thing? Either way now, you're sucking it up and paying more than you were to account for the hiccup in life that came along more than once. I'd work on pounding them until they address the insurance thing as that sounds like what's contributed to this matter significantly. IDK....you asked for opinions, so I'm giving mine. You've heard the saying that " it's cheaper to keep her " and that may also hold true for your situation if you can afford it. Looking at all this along with your interest in a new car/toy.....again, IDK, it's your call. I'm way more for being one to live below the means and get free of debt quickly vs making new debt. Its a catch 22. I could spend 4 years catching up on a house. Or I could go elsewhere, and spend the 4 years repairing my credit, while doing something responsible with my added savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Do you not see it as a good thing? My wife and I are not alone. There are a lot of others that live well below their means. We however, make up a very small percentage of Americans it seems. I grew up in that type of household and gotta say the things I remember are this: My parents always paid in cash and we never were not able to buy something or do anything. Mom barely ever worked other than to keep busy and what not. Dad wasn't a high paid businessman, but was a smart investor that worked hard. My parents have been very well off for many years and retired in their 50's with me still in college they paid for. I want that a more. Maybe I came off wrong. I see it as a 100% good thing and try my best to follow the same thinking myself. It's just rare anymore to see someone truly execute it. Your posts remind me of my dad telling me that saying. It was a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Maybe I came off wrong. I see it as a 100% good thing and try my best to follow the same thinking myself. It's just rare anymore to see someone truly execute it. Your posts remind me of my dad telling me that saying. It was a compliment. Cool. Thanks. I'll take the part of sounding like your dad as a compliment too since I put it out there as being the old guy of the group first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Its a catch 22. I could spend 4 years catching up on a house. Or I could go elsewhere, and spend the 4 years repairing my credit, while doing something responsible with my added savings. If you are seriously considering this, call my wife and then post back when you're done with your initial meeting. Seriously. Granted she makes her living off Bankruptcies and Divorces (lots go hand in hand) as the stress is huge and doesn't end when you file. Also, if you think it's a four year process before all is good, you will be surprised. In the end, you'd be better off figuring out how you can net a job that pays you and extra $7k year which after taxes, etc...will ease the burden of your budget now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Its a catch 22. I could spend 4 years catching up on a house. Or I could go elsewhere, and spend the 4 years repairing my credit, while doing something responsible with my added savings. This is what I was eluding to earlier. You can't repair credit without getting credit. Getting credit during a repair process also means paying higher interest. Paying higher interest means throwing money away. Avoiding throwing money away is the only reason why you are considering doing it in the first place. Like you said, catch 22. What's that saying about not cutting off your nose to spite your face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm set to retire at 52-57. The wife and I met for months with planners to put our plan together, for will, trusts, retirement, and life INS. That stuff is painful to sit through if you have never done it. Only thing we will touch is our liquid nest egg. Which will get rebuilt. We had planned to use it for a bigger house. We are folllowing our plan. I doubt it takes us 30 years to pay off the new house. As I said before everyone's plan is a little different. We are just buying our "payoff" house a bit later in life. Just like we waited to have kids to be sure we were going to stay married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEMAN1647545504 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Brian, call me tomorrow. I'll talk to you in regards to this. I deal with situations like yours every day at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilbWs6 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Going through a forclosure doesn't mean you have to file BK. I see shit like this all the time at work. We had a guy come in to lease a new car. Had all of his old shit (CC's, his own home, cars) paid perfectly and didn't have a ton of CC debt. The guy had not one, but two forclosures in mid to late 2010 on rental properties. One had a total of 11 late payments, the other only had 6 before it went back to the bank. Because he already had other things in his name to bring his score back up, his worst score is just below 700. I refinanced my house in 2010 @ 4.25% with my score being a 660 (much higher now, was still fixing the screw ups of being 19 with credit cards). The guy leased a brand new car without any issues. That's the problem with the whole situation. If executed with someone who knows what they're doing, there is little to no penalty for just handing the keys to your house. Not to mention the banks are still willing to give the guy loans! Edit: Not saying the guy could go out and get a mortgage right away but if you have an avenue to get the house you want through someone else or already have it before you kill your old house, your conscience will be the only thing you'll have to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Going through a forclosure doesn't mean you have to file BK. I see shit like this all the time at work. We had a guy come in to lease a new car. Had all of his old shit (CC's, his own home, cars) paid perfectly and didn't have a ton of CC debt. The guy had not one, but two forclosures in mid to late 2010 on rental properties. One had a total of 11 late payments, the other only had 6 before it went back to the bank. Because he already had other things in his name to bring his score back up, his worst score is just below 700. I refinanced my house in 2010 @ 4.25% with my score being a 660 (much higher now, was still fixing the screw ups of being 19 with credit cards). The guy leased a brand new car without any issues. That's the problem with the whole situation. If executed with someone who knows what they're doing, there is little to no penalty for just handing the keys to your house. Not to mention the banks are still willing to give the guy loans! Edit: Not saying the guy could go out and get a mortgage right away but if you have an avenue to get the house you want through someone else or already have it before you kill your old house, your conscience will be the only thing you'll have to deal with. A guy I know did something similar. Stayed in a house without paying until he was kicked out. Saved up all the money, got a nice apartment (paid 3 months up front... money talks), and a new car loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPierson Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I wouldn't walk away from a house simply because it has dropped in perceived valued from $180K to $150K. There are a TON of houses that have dropped that much, or more - you are not alone. We paid $211 for our house, dropped $30K in adding a 4th bedroom and full bath while finishing the basement, and the house recently appraised for $190K. Two thoughts regarding your situation - you mentioned that your property value has gone down, but your taxes have gone up. How is this so? What does the county appraise your house at? I've challenged county appraisals before and had a property reduced from $9x,000 to $6x,000 and all it cost me was a $400 bank appraisal. Well worth it. If you could get the county to lower the taxes on the house it would allow you to pay it off faster (by paying more on principle) and could help get you closer to the break even point. Second, how much do you owe on the house still? What is your interest rate? I would explore all financing offers to get the absolute best deal to again pay off extra principle and try to get to the break even point. I, personally, would never allow any family member to buy a house for me and in return pay them rent. Too risky and stressful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I wouldn't walk away from a house simply because it has dropped in perceived valued from $180K to $150K. There are a TON of houses that have dropped that much, or more - you are not alone. We paid $211 for our house, dropped $30K in adding a 4th bedroom and full bath while finishing the basement, and the house recently appraised for $190K. Two thoughts regarding your situation - you mentioned that your property value has gone down, but your taxes have gone up. How is this so? What does the county appraise your house at? I've challenged county appraisals before and had a property reduced from $9x,000 to $6x,000 and all it cost me was a $400 bank appraisal. Well worth it. If you could get the county to lower the taxes on the house it would allow you to pay it off faster (by paying more on principle) and could help get you closer to the break even point. Second, how much do you owe on the house still? What is your interest rate? I would explore all financing offers to get the absolute best deal to again pay off extra principle and try to get to the break even point. I, personally, would never allow any family member to buy a house for me and in return pay them rent. Too risky and stressful. The amount taxed is being appealed. Interest is like 4%. And for the total amount, lets just say when the "oops" happened the interest that wasnt paid was added back on. So essentially the interest missed was added to the principle and reset about 2 years worth of payments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 If I stay and pay I'm giving away roughly 25% of what I pay. If I leave here to rent from someone else I lose 100% each month. If I rent to own from the family I have the option to determine how much I give away. But my pride will take a huge hit and I will feel like a bitch. If I take the easy way out I just keep paying and dont think about it. Hoping at some point while no one is at home Wagner comes to say hi and totals my house with his newly acquired Big Foot truck by mistake. P.S. I need someone to help me install a deck and a kitchen floor. P.P.S. I have to stay so I dont feel guilty when I waste money on hobbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Do you not see it as a good thing? My wife and I are not alone. There are a lot of others that live well below their means. We however, make up a very small percentage of Americans it seems. This has always been our way of life as well. We own 3 cars with a combined purchase price of $1500. I could have afforded a new car for both my wife and I but it never made sense. When we were first shopping for a house we were approved for an $850k new build. No way in hell I was going that route and literally walked right out the builders door when he suggested it. Looking back this lifestyle was the best decision I ever made especially since the last 3 years hasnt provided much in means of income. I always find it funny to see people envious of how someone else is able to live a comfortable life yet do just the opposite and feel the need to spend every last dime they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRN96WS6 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim has some good suggestions. I'm about 60K upside down so I feel your pain but I could never walk away call it pride or whatever but no way I could do it. I've read Dave Ramsey's books and his mantra makes sense. I'm working on getting my g/f to understand that do we can have fun later in life while not foregoing it now as well. I'd stick it out man but you have to do what is best for you and yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tim has some good suggestions. I'm about 60K upside down so I feel your pain but I could never walk away call it pride or whatever but no way I could do it. I've read Dave Ramsey's books and his mantra makes sense. I'm working on getting my g/f to understand that do we can have fun later in life while not foregoing it now as well. I'd stick it out man but you have to do what is best for you and yours. 60 has to hurt, hopefully you like the house so its easier to swallow. I like my neighbors for the most part, and the house isnt too bad. What hurts more than anything is its pushing back my goals. Financially Im ahead of my goals. I had my plans laid out for a move to Dublin, but my wife lost her jobs, and the price of the house just kept dropping. Things could be worse so Im grateful... but it still doesnt feel good knowing 25 year old Brian is messing up stuff for 32 year old Brian. That guy is such an idiot!!! :lolguy: J/k I would have had to be psychic. I thought I did everything right. I picked the house that was 45k under what I was approved for. Shopped around, stayed in my budget, avoided balloon payments, put my kids in one of the best school districts... but somehow I still feel shafted. I also read up on strategic default (like Killjoy posted). It appears 1 out of 5 people that got a house around the time I did are likely to do that. 20% is a crazy high number! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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