westerville city schools levy?

[wnaplay1647545503]

I agree with everything in your post Brian. Now how do we make it happen? I think do to the makeup of our current society it would be very hard to get the support needed to effectively make change. There are just to many people out there that just dont care partially due to not having children currently dealing with these issues. Those of us that have schoolage kids care but admittedly I dont know if I will in another 7 years when all of mine are graduated. People would need to see this as a serious issue detrimental to us all for any serious changes.

[unfunnyryan]

Why is it depressing? She has a salary on par with others? Teachers making more than Law Enforcement Officers, is a crying fucking shame. Someone who works 186 days out of the year, make more than someone risking their life daily.

 

Teaching jobs are a lot easier to lose than law enforcement jobs. Poke a kid? Fired. Shoot a hobo? Desk duty for a bit.

[1fast5gp]

I dont want my kids taught by a person whose sole credentials for being an educator is being able to tolerate school for an additional 5 years beyond me. I also dont want my kids taught by a person who feels that their ability to retain useless facts somehow means they would make a good educator. I do want them taught by someone who is able to practically apply lessons in a manner that allows my kids to learn and develop. Our education system shouldnt be setup to make a student with a good memory appear more intelligent than someone with actual intelligence but a poor memory.

 

 

I agree completely!

[TTQ B4U]

So my option on the question that was asked no teachers do NOT make too much money. If it chaps your ass that badly then why didn’t you become a teacher and make ALL of that money? Additionally do you really want your child’s education to be provided by the lowest bidder?

 

I don't think the point is so much what the teachers are making as it is that the school districts continue to come back asking for more and more tax dollars to run their business. I really don't care what they make and feel mid 80's is fine. Honestly, in 2012 a job that pays 80k isn't anything to brag about if you spent 4-6 years in college. Whether they make it in 9 or 12 months, it's still average wage for a college educated person.

 

My point is the retirement system and the school boards mis management of the funding they do get. Their management does include what they pay their people thus ultimately how they distribute their dollar is something they have to work within and it shouldn't be something that we as tax payers have to continue to pay for year after year after year.

 

In today's economy I agree that sports and extras should be made pay to play until the school board sorts out their budget issues. The illness of that should not be put upon the taxpayers as then the board will have no interest in actually fixing the problem. I agree with Brian that the extras are healthy and good for the kids but feel the school board is trying to push that financial responsibility off on the taxpayers every year. The bullshit has to stop.

 

The same goes for taxes. By voting NO we the public are essentially telling the school board enough is enough and we are in fact imposing our own sanctions on them. For the school board to continually position their interests between parents and their own kids in a sense taking them hostage is inexcusable. By doing so the school board is hurting the students and their own teachers.

 

Fix the problem and fuck you on more taxes.

[wagner]

Fix the problem and fuck you on more taxes.

 

This would require a total reset on how schools are funded. If you think your elected officials are going to step on that land mine you are on crack.

 

Goverment has added so much red tape and other shit from bitchy parrents schools are in a no win situation.

 

I don't see anybody here bitching about how much of your tax dollar goes to OSU. You do realize that right? We talked about this in class how much our tax money goes to OSU and that was mind blowing.

 

But hey, it is easier to pick on overpaid teachers than overpaid coaches, professors, and students right?

 

People need to start placing the blame where it belongs, at the feet of a broken system.

 

Also, what is the first thing people ask about when they buy a house? "What school district is it in?" Do you think good teachers are cheap? Why and how do you think these districts get such good marks on testing? Again, it is easy to just blame the bad teachers that work 186 days a year.

 

My brother is a teacher and I am pretty sure he is not making the baller dollars some of you think teachers make.

 

If teaching was easy everybody would do it.

[TTQ B4U]

Here comes several paragraphs of I don't give fuck for Gabe

 

This would require a total reset on how schools are funded. If you think your elected officials are going to step on that land mine you are on crack.

 

Yes, it's going to take a total reset to fix the system.

 

- That said oo you really think voting yes and continuing to accept more taxes and funding a broken system is the answer?

- What other options do the taxpayers have right now?

 

I don't see anybody here bitching about how much of your tax dollar goes to OSU. You do realize that right? We talked about this in class how much our tax money goes to OSU and that was mind blowing.

I agree, we likely fund them heavily, and I'm not discounting the importance of college as I do feel it should be made cost effective but let's face it, it's still a choice and still a system that is funded a great deal by the student, unlike public K-12 where currently the burden falls 100% on the taxpayers.

 

But hey, it is easier to pick on overpaid teachers than overpaid coaches, professors, and students right?

- So who is the bad guy that we should be picking on then?

- What role do the coaches and teachers play in all this?

- Shouldn't teachers be identifying and helping fix the problem? Are they? How?

 

Again, I think they too are an innocent victim being put in the middle but I they continue to support those that put them in the middle by fighting for the tax dollars instead of them being part of the fix to the problem. The school board has done a great job of putting teachers in the middle and using them as pawns in fighting the war of a broken system. IMO, teachers need to come up with the solution, not the taxpayers.

 

- Again, what's their role in their own employment issue?

- Are they doing all they can to fix it?

 

Their salary and pensions are part of the problem yes, so of course the taxpayers are going to target them.

 

- Why shouldn't there be a system of paying for performance put in place?

- What makes anyone "entitled" to a raise simply for putting in time?

 

Entitlements for longevity are what got us here in the first place. That madness needs to end.

 

People need to start placing the blame where it belongs, at the feet of a broken system.

By cutting off the funding to the broken system, we are.

 

- What else would you suggest?

- Better yet, what else do the teachers and the board suggest? Put the illness on them, it's their problem. Let them own the solution otherwise, if they don't come up with the solution, fingers will continue to be pointed.

[AWW$HEEET]

Thanks tim just what i needed this AM.

[zeitgeist57]

Is it springtime yet?

[wagner]

Here comes several paragraphs of I don't give fuck for Gabe

 

 

 

Yes, it's going to take a total reset to fix the system.

 

- That said oo you really think voting yes and continuing to accept more taxes and funding a broken system is the answer?

- What other options do the taxpayers have right now?

 

I agree, we likely fund them heavily, and I'm not discounting the importance of college as I do feel it should be made cost effective but let's face it, it's still a choice and still a system that is funded a great deal by the student, unlike public K-12 where currently the burden falls 100% on the taxpayers.

 

- So who is the bad guy that we should be picking on then?

- What role do the coaches and teachers play in all this?

- Shouldn't teachers be identifying and helping fix the problem? Are they? How?

 

Again, I think they too are an innocent victim being put in the middle but I they continue to support those that put them in the middle by fighting for the tax dollars instead of them being part of the fix to the problem. The school board has done a great job of putting teachers in the middle and using them as pawns in fighting the war of a broken system. IMO, teachers need to come up with the solution, not the taxpayers.

 

- Again, what's their role in their own employment issue?

- Are they doing all they can to fix it?

 

Their salary and pensions are part of the problem yes, so of course the taxpayers are going to target them.

 

- Why shouldn't there be a system of paying for performance put in place?

- What makes anyone "entitled" to a raise simply for putting in time?

 

Entitlements for longevity are what got us here in the first place. That madness needs to end.

 

By cutting off the funding to the broken system, we are.

 

- What else would you suggest?

- Better yet, what else do the teachers and the board suggest? Put the illness on them, it's their problem. Let them own the solution otherwise, if they don't come up with the solution, fingers will continue to be pointed.

 

 

What would I suggest?

 

1. Blow up how schools are funded and use a solution that makes sense. How? That is up to some people who are a hella smarter than me but something needs done. Will that happen? I don't think it will until the system melts down.

 

2. Don't ask school boards what to do, they are there for their kids and their own interests.

 

3. Teachers will tell you to cut the crap that is not needed, make it about the education only. Now the problem there is you would have to cut sports or limit them. Then here come the parents bitching...

 

4. Best way to fix it? Look at the other countries that are plowing our asshole in teaching their kids and use that method. Again, this would require change and god forbid parents ACTUALLY doing something.

 

5. Who should getting the blame? The people who set the policy. Admins and teachers at the schools are put in a box and told how to do their jobs. The second they step out of that box people raise hell. That Saving Superman documentary is pretty interesting. That lady got her balls busted for trying to think out of the box and fire bad teachers.

[RyM3rC]

I don't think the point is so much what the teachers are making as it is that the school districts continue to come back asking for more and more tax dollars to run their business. I really don't care what they make and feel mid 80's is fine. Honestly, in 2012 a job that pays 80k isn't anything to brag about if you spent 4-6 years in college. Whether they make it in 9 or 12 months, it's still average wage for a college educated person.

 

$80k might not seem like a lot to you, but I can name half a dozen people I know who have masters degrees and are making $12/hr. There is absolutely no shortage of people who would do the job for half that ($40k), not to mention the awesome benefits package teachers have. Most of the teachers I looked up at my uppity-ass HS were making $46-68k, and I know some of them that have been there for 20 years.

[smokinHawk1647545499]

Yes we defiantly need to fix the broken system, but wait SB5 failed, so we are never going to be able, the unions are to powerful and everyone else gets screwed...

 

I believe we should have separation of school and sports. There should be no funding of anything but education. School wants to have sports either have pay for play, or have it self supporting by sales of tickets at the game or both. Or put them in nonprofit after school activities if they want to be active, keep schooling and sports separate.

To many parents try to get kids to have interests in sports because they failed in it and want their kids to be the amazing star they weren't and become the hero of the school. stop wasting time with that and focus on their intelligence.

 

We really need to get rid of the unions and fire the bad teachers, the school system needs to become more efficient. and the first step would be to get ride of the unions and fire a lot of people. The teacher profession is such a saturated market, why? because its cakewalk job if you dont care which most teachers dont (the good ones make the job difficult by working hard, but its not a requirement for the job)

[wagner]

I believe we should have separation of school and sports. There should be no funding of anything but education. School wants to have sports either have pay for play, or have it self supporting by sales of tickets at the game or both. Or put them in nonprofit after school activities if they want to be active, keep schooling and sports separate.

To many parents try to get kids to have interests in sports because they failed in it and want their kids to be the amazing star they weren't and become the hero of the school. stop wasting time with that and focus on their intelligence.

 

 

This by far is the best point made in this thread.

[LJ]

But hey, it is easier to pick on overpaid teachers than overpaid coaches, professors, and students right?

 

 

Yes.

At OSU, the athletic dept. funds itself. Coaches salaries are not taxpayer funded. High School coaches don't get a very big stipend. Hell, at Big Walnut, before coach Wetzel retired from head coach, he had been there for 10+ years, multiple conference championships, multiple regional championships, a stat championship, and he made $5,000 for coaching.

As for professors, the ones who merely teach don't make a ton. $60-70k. The ones who do research and bring grants and funding to the universities are the ones who make bank.

[wagner]

Yes.

At OSU, the athletic dept. funds itself. Coaches salaries are not taxpayer funded. High School coaches don't get a very big stipend. Hell, at Big Walnut, before coach Wetzel retired from head coach, he had been there for 10+ years, multiple conference championships, multiple regional championships, a stat championship, and he made $5,000 for coaching.

As for professors, the ones who merely teach don't make a ton. $60-70k. The ones who do research and bring grants and funding to the universities are the ones who make bank.

 

My point was made more towards the college level, HS coaches don't make a ton for the time they put in.

 

Football and basketball yes, the over 20 other sports I don't know about for OSU and other schools.

 

But wait, those professors don't work year round! Under some people's logic in this thread they are overpaid and can be looked at on the same level as cops.

 

Yes, research profs make stupid money when they publish and help bring money to the university. They should since those guys and gals drive innovation and help solve problems.

[TTQ B4U]

$80k might not seem like a lot to you, but I can name half a dozen people I know who have masters degrees and are making $12/hr.

 

It's not just a matter of my opinion on how far $80k goes when raising a family, saving for retirement, owning a house and providing for kids, aka having a normal life in America. It's a fact; $80k isn't squat. To those you know that make $12/hr. with their degree, I'm sorry, but that's on them, not me and certainly not relevant to the fact that $80k is still not anything to write home about for someone with a college degree equiv. to what teachers have. It also isnt' realvant to what we need in our schools systems. I'm not in support of hiring those with degrees but not utilizing them and instead making $12hr. because they will do the job for less. That's not the solution. (see my comments below)

 

I know a lot of folks who painted themselves into a corner by not maximizing the degree they have too. Technically the degree I have has the highest layoff and unemployment rate all around. (can you name that degree?) The difference is I know how to use the transferable skills it provided me to make 4-5x what those who have that degree and are practicing in the field make. In fact I worked less than 2 years in that field.

 

There is absolutely no shortage of people who would do the job for half that ($40k), not to mention the awesome benefits package teachers have.

Perhaps, but hiring someone just because they will do the job for less isn't a recipe for success. I have an open position for a pretty kick as job that all-in will easily net $120-$150 for the right candidate. I don't want someone who will come in and do it for $75k-$100k. ( I litterally have 100's of resumes wanting just that ) I want someone who will kick ass as the job I have for the amount I'm willing to pay to meet the expectations I have.

 

In other words, I'll gladly pay teachers & school board members top dollar but I want performance, accountability and responsibility.I want people who will run the system like a business; like they own it. That is come to table with solutions not cries for more taxes or for others to fix it the problems they face. I don't want average paid teachers just punching a clock or someone with a degree that is under-utilizing it to come in and simply raise their standard of income. I want someone to come in and raise the standard of education and bring value to the dollars we are currently paying out. It's not about saving money it's about getting the most value out of what we currently have being spent. Right now we are spending a lot, showing poor results (generally speaking) and in return continually being asked for more money to continue the cycle.

[LJ]

My point was made more towards the college level, HS coaches don't make a ton for the time they put in.

 

Football and basketball yes, the over 20 other sports I don't know about for OSU and other schools.

Football and basketball fund every sport at OSU. I think the other state schools have to break even and cover the rest with booster donations. Also, OSU has 36 varsity sports.

 

But wait, those professors don't work year round! Under some people's logic in this thread they are overpaid and can be looked at on the same level as cops.

A lot do work year round, but sabbatical is what I would complain about with professors more than anything.

 

Yes, research profs make stupid money when they publish and help bring money to the university. They should since those guys and gals drive innovation and help solve problems.

agree

[V8 Beast]

Its pretty obvious there is a lot of bias in this thread.

 

Teachers are not overpaid (just because you know one doesnt mean they deserve to high paid babysitters).

 

Teachers are all overpaid (your good or bad experiences are a small fraction of what happens in the real world.)

 

Saying sports are worthless (because you are not good at them or dont like them doesnt make them worthless. Development and discipline comes from many shapes and angles).

 

Saying we have to have sports in schools (No we dont, parents can pay for it through other places. Sometimes you have to pay to play)

 

The system is broke (To you it may be broke. Somewhere there is a guy loving how things are going. Cut activities if tax payers dont give more... keep salary regardless. Brilliant!)

 

 

I should change my name to Captain Obvious or Commander Common Sense

[wagner]

Its pretty obvious there is a lot of bias in this thread.

 

Teachers are not overpaid (just because you know one doesnt mean they deserve to high paid babysitters).

 

Teachers are all overpaid (your good or bad experiences are a small fraction of what happens in the real world.)

 

Saying sports are worthless (because you are not good at them or dont like them doesnt make them worthless. Development and discipline comes from many shapes and angles).

 

Saying we have to have sports in schools (No we dont, parents can pay for it through other places. Sometimes you have to pay to play)

 

The system is broke (To you it may be broke. Somewhere there is a guy loving how things are going. Cut activities if tax payers dont give more... keep salary regardless. Brilliant!)

 

 

I should change my name to Captain Obvious or Commander Common Sense

 

My bias is pro education and doing what it takes to make sure kids get the best.

[kirks5oh]

our governor (wisconsin) has made leaps and bounds in taking care of the crazy amount of taxes that go towards these fat pensions---look what has happened to him, he's being re-called.

[TTQ B4U]

our governor (wisconsin) has made leaps and bounds in taking care of the crazy amount of taxes that go towards these fat pensions---look what has happened to him, he's being re-called.

 

Yep. Speaks volumes of what those involved in the school system are really concerned with. Follow the money...holds true in just about everything.

[mrhobbz]

Got an example? An actual name?

 

Teachers are REQUIRED to get their masters and have continuing education. Drop those requirements and salaries will go down.

 

Being as I'm in this database, from looking my self up they are way off.

[AngryBMW]

Being as I'm in this database, from looking my self up they are way off.

 

High or low?

-Marc

[AngryBMW]

Perhaps, but hiring someone just because they will do the job for less isn't a recipe for success. I have an open position for a pretty kick as job that all-in will easily net $120-$150 for the right candidate...I want someone who will kick ass as the job I have for the amount I'm willing to pay to meet the expectations I have.

 

...

 

-Marc

[RyM3rC]

Being as I'm in this database, from looking my self up they are way off.

 

Oh really? That's interesting because the teachers I looked up that I remembered were listed as making far less than they claimed when I was in school 10 years ago. I just attributed it to cutbacks. Interesting.

[mrhobbz]

High or low?

-Marc

 

Way low.