kshymkiw83 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Why shouldn't you hold the teacher responsible? I have no control over the attitude and performance of my sales team, I have no control over whether my lab workers show up for work every day or binge drink the night before, but I'm still ACCOUNTABLE for both. It's called responsibility and a job. Deal with it. Ignoring performance is ridiculous. Teachers need to be held accountable. It's their job to instill a child to want to learn when they are in front of them. Absolutely no different than me in my role as a Sales Director. If I can't win over my team to work FOR ME, then I'm doomed and should be fired. I was more or less playing Devil's advocate. The thing you can do though is fire someone from your sales team. A teacher can't fire or tell a student to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Why is it depressing? She has a salary on par with others? Teachers making more than Law Enforcement Officers, is a crying fucking shame. Someone who works 186 days out of the year, make more than someone risking their life daily. She works a whole lot harder than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R. Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Got an example? An actual name? Teachers are REQUIRED to get their masters and have continuing education. Drop those requirements and salaries will go down. But can you say they don't get overcompensated? I'm so pissed off right now to know what the teachers in Westerville make. I have had a lot of teachers there that made in between 60-86k and have been doing the same EXACT teaching / lesson plan for their whole career. I had a teacher at Westerville South and I can tell you that she ranks below deadbeat welfare recipients to me. Her name is Cynthia Williams and she was paid 65k her last year of working. I can tell you for a certain fact that every last thing we did in her class was the same exact thing the last 8 classes did. On top of that she would sit at her desk and have us come get a paper off the corner of it and we worked silently. Absolutely no interaction. To know that all she did was come to work and sit at her desk to make that kind of money is pathetic. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are teachers that deserve what they are paid and quite possibly some that are underpaid. They need to change some of the union laws and fire the deadbeat teachers. It's wrong for anyone to pull a paycheck and not work for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshymkiw83 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 She works a whole lot harder than you think. So a teacher, does a lot more than a Cop, who is out there risking their life every time they pull a car over? I am shocked you would sit there and say that a teacher who spends 186 days a year doing something, deserves more than a cop, who is risking their life with every call they take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I was more or less playing Devil's advocate. The thing you can do though is fire someone from your sales team. A teacher can't fire or tell a student to leave. Based on your posts I figured you were, but I'm attempting to be clear for others who are not. Actually, I don't fire anyone and never have. They fire themselves by not meeting their Key Job Accountabilities (KJA's). When they are not doing well THEY write their own plan of corrective action too. I simply approve what they say they are going to do in order to come back on track. It's all a part of accountability. Kids have it too. In the case of schools, they hold them back. Believe me, my son is in third grade and its competitive. No one in his class wants to be the one dummy. They boast of test scores and do compete. Essentially they police themselves. No different than a work force that eventually polices out those that don't pull their weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 So a teacher, does a lot more than a Cop, who is out there risking their life every time they pull a car over? I am shocked you would sit there and say that a teacher who spends 186 days a year doing something, deserves more than a cop, who is risking their life with every call they take. You are really showing how ignorant you are of what teachers really do. Are you really using a cop to teacher to make a point? I love how people just throw teachers under the bus. Teachers have to try and teach kids who don't give a fuck because there are no fucks given at home. Let me guess, the teachers need to fix that to right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 So a teacher, does a lot more than a Cop, who is out there risking their life every time they pull a car over? I am shocked you would sit there and say that a teacher who spends 186 days a year doing something, deserves more than a cop, who is risking their life with every call they take. I don't recall saying that. It's getting to that TL;DR phase. If you think I'm saying that Police, Fire Fighters, etc. are over paid/ get what they deserve you would be wrong, even though some of them do. What I am saying is, for 40K paying for the bulk of her own class supplies, dealing with shitty parents, kids who refuse to learn, idiot administrators, it's not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshymkiw83 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 You are really showing how ignorant you are of what teachers really do. Are you really using a cop to teacher to make a point? I love how people just throw teachers under the bus. Teachers have to try and teach kids who don't give a fuck because there are no fucks given at home. Let me guess, the teachers need to fix that to right? Teachers are paid more than cops in most scenarios. If the kids parents don't give a fuck, then let the kid fall behind and fail. Pay for jobs needs to be based on performance. I don't know one private company that would give you a raise, simply because you have been there for 5 years. Most companies these days, aren't even doing cost of living pay increases. Not to mention the pension that the taxpayers have to pay for down the road. Teachers grade papers, write up some cirriculum, and come in 186 days a year, stand in front of a class, and say the same shit over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshymkiw83 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't recall saying that. It's getting to that TL;DR phase. If you think I'm saying that Police, Fire Fighters, etc. are under paid/ get what they deserve you would be wrong, What I am saying is, for 40K paying for the bulk of her own class supplies, dealing with shitty parents, kids who refuse to learn, idiot administrators, it's not worth it. You can't be more Catholic than the pope. If the school system isn't going to provide you the tools to do your job, then it is their issue. Maybe they could relieve some of the pressure on the new teacher making 40k, if they didn't pay some of the other teachers 80k or more. Take 5k off those teachers salary, and see how much money you have..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 You can't be more Catholic than the pope. If the school system isn't going to provide you the tools to do your job, then it is their issue. Maybe they could relieve some of the pressure on the new teacher making 40k, if they didn't pay some of the other teachers 80k or more. Take 5k off those teachers salary, and see how much money you have..... The Pope is politics man. Power and money nothing else. It's old school business and Unions man. You get paid on time served, not what good you do. I didn't create the system, nor do I support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace1647545504 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Extracurriculars should be paid for out of the parent's pocket. The schooling is free mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Teachers are paid more than cops in most scenarios. If the kids parents don't give a fuck, then let the kid fall behind and fail. Pay for jobs needs to be based on performance. I don't know one private company that would give you a raise, simply because you have been there for 5 years. Most companies these days, aren't even doing cost of living pay increases. Not to mention the pension that the taxpayers have to pay for down the road. Teachers grade papers, write up some cirriculum, and come in 186 days a year, stand in front of a class, and say the same shit over and over. Wow, don't even know where to begin with this gem... So you want teachers paid by performance, yet you want them to let kids fall behind. Great logic there... When a district makes cuts teachers don't get raises in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 The schooling is free mace :dumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRed Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I hope it fails too. School districts need to learn that they need to be able to live within there own means. If you can only make 25 million a year from taxes, grants, etc, don't spend 30 million an expect the tax payers to foot the bill for the rest. Westerville 4th grade teacher lives right next door to me. She doesn't have her masters and makes over 60K a year. Her car is in her drive way when I leave for work at 7:30 am, and is sitting there when I get home at 5:30 pm. Doesn't work extra or anything. Oh yeah and was bragging about her big raises she has gotten over the last couple years, while companies around the city are either not giving raises and some even cutting wages. I am sorry, but I graduated from a High School where the only extra courses was French, Spanish, Art and Computer courses. That was only 11 years ago. Also we didn't have any of those "fancy" extracurricular activities. Football, basketball, baseball, track and that was it. If you want to have those extras and your kids want to participate in them, the parents are going to have to pay for them. Not everyone else that could care less about Westerville's Rowing team. Oh and look at all the other school districts that "threaten" they are going to have to cut all these sports because of a levy fail. Yet after it fails, some how they figure out how to keep them. Hilliard is a great, recent example of those actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 wow. I just realized my kids teacher got a 6000 dollar raise last year, and its only her 2nd year on the job. wish I got a raise like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 wow. I just realized my kids teacher got a 6000 dollar raise last year, and its only her 2nd year on the job. wish I got a raise like that. I am agreeing with a lot that has been said... but you don't just get a 6k raise for nothing. Chances are that person paid a TON in education to get their masters to go up the pay scale. Let's have a reality check here please. If teachers get overpaid and have an easy job.. why doesn't everyone complaining go become a teacher? :dumb: Oh yea because it is actually harder than you think. (I am not a teacher and even I realize that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 As stated I know teachers starting out at $60k and officers starting out at $70k, no not everyone does. My issue is that most kids are easily involved in schoolwork when approached by it in a manner they find interesting. They say you can't involve or teach to everyone which is true but it takes so little effort to include most and 99% of all teachers fail to make the attempt. I don't get being so much of a sheep that you follow exactly what your told to and don't create your own teaching style. If all your going to do is read from a book and do exactly as it states then don't waste years of education and the financial responsibly. I see so many teachers that go into it for a paycheck either intentionally or they manifest into it after being broke down in college that by the time they actually start to teach, they aren't anyone I want in front of my kid. Personality requirements should be required for anyone who has as much responsibility as teachers have. Even teachers that dont seek a raise get one in the board increases pay or a union contract is increased. If your the school board and you want to give yourself a raise, it's easily for the rest of the staff to swallow if you give them one as well. My buddy received a $7k raise after year one because it was scheduled to happen in their contract which happened years before he started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9381 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 i didnt read through but the first few posts, but im in westerville schools, and after this last BS passed, my mortgage is going up like $4x/mo, not a huge amount, but for principle/interest on my house alone, its $425.xx. with all the taxes and shit, its gonna be 710. thats horse shit. i dont have kids, nor will i. i dont mind paying a small amount, but fuckers who have kids should pay way more for using the system than those who dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Because Schools are the only expense to living in one community or another? Come on man that is redonkulous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9381 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 and i just looked up what my dads fiance makes as a (i believe) 3rd grade teacher in reynoldsburg. almost 80k? wow. but, from what he said, she puts in about 70 hours/wk working. between being at the school, grading papers/shit at home, going in on the weekends to prepare for the next week, i can buy it...theres been MANY times that i've went over on the weekend and ask where she is and he tells me shes at the school doing this or that. at like 3pm on a sunday. fuck that. and theres a couple GREAT teachers i had in HS i think should be making a bit more than they are, and im going off the oldest numbers (04) and i graduated in 03. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Your paying for schools in the hope that good citizens who contribute to the upkeep of this country are created, no different than why others payed for you to attend. Dont be mad that you have to pay more, be upset that they spend what you knew you were paying when you bought your home incorrectly and then ask for more. I dont mind paying for schools I just want accountability both from the educators and the administrators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeDot3083 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I aim to educate, not to aggravate. Here is the break down of the Westerville School District pay chart. BA w/ zero years exp: $37,659 BA +150hrs w/ 5 years exp: $48,343 MA w/ 10 years exp: $65,410 MA +15hrs w/ 15 years exp: $76,966 MA +30hrs w/ 20 years exp: $86,409 The full chart can be seen here:http://www.wcsoh.org/docs/10-11%20Salary%20Schedule.pdf So your base yearly salary for ANY teacher just starting out is going to be $37,659. That might not be shabby. With all the schooling that takes to get to this point it isn’t that much. Using the numbers from this article the author puts 1 year of schooling at $7,000 per year plus books and fees. Let’s just stick with the $7,000 number for now, so simple math gives you $28,000 for a four year degree less books and fees. So you have your four year degree now you need to complete a credentialing program. Let’s keep using that $7,000 number, so now were at $35,000. And as any teacher will tell you just having the bare minimum will NOT get you hired but that’s beside the point right now. So your making $37,659 IF you get hired and have $35,000 in student loans. Hell if you DONT get hired you still have the loans. We know you’re not getting to barrow that money for free so from USBank.com they are offering a fixed interest rate of 7.99%. So leaving this as broad as possible let’s say you’re going to pay it off in ten years. It’s going to cost you $424.46 a month pay it off in that time frame. Paying out $15,935.51 in total interest bringing your grand total for five years of schooling to $50,935.51. Again I want to point out I used the LOWEST of low numbers when figuring out how much your college education would cost. As pointed out by the original author a private college can cost more than $26,000 a year. So for five years that’s $130,000 and at a 7.99% interest rate it would be a grand total of $189,188.75! And let’s not forget if you want bigger and better pay raises you have to go BACK to school. So my option on the question that was asked no teachers do NOT make too much money. If it chaps your ass that badly then why didn’t you become a teacher and make ALL of that money? Additionally do you really want your child’s education to be provided by the lowest bidder? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I dont want my kids taught by a person whose sole credentials for being an educator is being able to tolerate school for an additional 5 years beyond me. I also dont want my kids taught by a person who feels that their ability to retain useless facts somehow means they would make a good educator. I do want them taught by someone who is able to practically apply lessons in a manner that allows my kids to learn and develop. Our education system shouldnt be setup to make a student with a good memory appear more intelligent than someone with actual intelligence but a poor memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 So a teacher, does a lot more than a Cop, who is out there risking their life every time they pull a car over? I am shocked you would sit there and say that a teacher who spends 186 days a year doing something, deserves more than a cop, who is risking their life with every call they take. If they work in a public school they could be risking their life every time they ask a kid to sit down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Most teachers are given a curriculum to follow. The good teachers know how to work within the curriculum to make education fun. They also mix praise with discipline while being mindful of children that learn at a slower rate. We could give these teachers all the money in the world and I wouldnt care. However, from my experience the kids in need just get more homework, not extra attention. If I was going to get a raise no matter what why would I stress myself out over your stupid kid.... right? I don't have time for that, I'm going to go home and study for my masters so I can make more monies!!!!!! I love when I cross a good teacher. Its happened twice since Ive been a parent and my kids are lucky to have had them. Best feeling in the world to trust the person your kids are going to be spending hours with everyday. Its a shame we dont have more of them. I dont think performance based pay is the answer as much as the evaluation process from parent, student, and principle. A good teacher doesnt always create good grades, there is a lot more that goes into a childs development than an A or B on tests. Speaking of tests... One thing that really makes me mad is that kids are basically being taught to score well on certain tests so the district looks good. Back on topic, why keep threatening kids activities to get more money? After school programs can be a changing point in their life. Not everyone is book smart. Activities can be great for self esteem, helping kids find their path, friendships, team building, etc. Money management is the real problem, stop taking it out on the children. Through all of this I have learned without a doubt that I will NEVER type a post this long on a cell phone ever again!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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