TTQ B4U Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) To you this is just noise. To a lot of people --hard working, tax paying, voting Americans with friends and family who care a lot for them -- this is their civil rights, their LIVES. Go to the gun-related areas of CR and look at all the posts of people concerned with their RIGHT to bear arms and how this election will effect them. Then consider that this election spent between 0 and 1 minutes collectively debating gun control. I agree, to a lot of people they are important issues. In terms of where we are as a country are those the issues you think are the most important to address in the next four years? Do you think people on CR are going to give a shit about owning an AR15 if they don't have the money to buy one or do you think they might just need to be focused on getting a job and not paying more in taxes so they can actually then buy one after having enough to fund a 401k that's actually moving up not down? Perspective is all I'm saying. We each have one but collectively I put the economy ahead of social issues. Change "right to bear arms" with "right to marry who you want" or "right to make choices regarding your own body", then factor in the amount of rhetoric spewing from both sides and you can see that, while you may not care, a lot of moderate (and even some partisan) voters care on behalf of those people they care about. and the above focus on those issues is what I mean by people making a less than stellar choice on how to choose a president to run this country for the next four years. Those issues have been around, debated and talked about for fucking decades and aren't being buried for eternity by anyone. If collectively the public feels those are the key factors then God bless them. They can work on keeping those liberties whole while the rest of the economy falls to shit. AGain, that's what I mean when I say welcome to the new America, where polishing up a POS 2001 Audi with 167k miles and blown turbo is more important than having a reliable car let alone being able to afford gas to put in it. I can't trivialize the importance of the economy, but I can't imagine I'm the only one in this country who values fundamental rights before my take-home pay. I'm not trivializing anything either. However I'm not the only one that believes picking a POTUS based social issues first is what this country needs. Not when that same POTUS has yet to prove he has what it takes to do the job on the more important and impactful to everyone issues like the economy. Again, there's no point in worrying about your car if you have no job to drive it to. What do I know.....I'd be just peachy working two part time jobs raking in $50k yr living week to week as I raise two kids that I hope will be able to afford college and have a job after they graduate. But hey, at least my son will be able to marry a guy with a gun collection to protect his nieghbors who have free birth control yet maintain their American right to have an abortion, also likely covered by healthcare and all paid for by the collective. Awesome story Bro. I'm sure my kids will be thankful we put a POTUS in place that will insure that's all within their reach. Edited November 8, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewhop Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Reading this thread is like watching the Maury Povich show....the part AFTER he has told everyone if that guy is the father or not. By all means, continue. This guy gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Don't take this the wrong way but I really wish you could live the life of someone who's had everything destroyed.... Until you've done that you really don't understand... You talk about leeches and all this yet when I got laid off I was able to survive off my own savings for about a year doing side jobs and what not. Which facts are we referring to? I would offer you read the book The SPEED of Trust and then honestly compare the 13 principles trust is built upon to both candidates. You'd be surprised. It will also become completely apparent why Obama is not able or more correctly worded, capable of leading congress to working together for him. He's a great orator and can rally people for a cause, but he's not a leader and possess little to any of the skills that are required to lead. You don't even have to believe the book, just look at the facts. Romney has done more things for others during the course of his life both personally and through financial means and yet spoke very little of those things. He's actually quite humble. He could have run his entire campaign putting people in front of us but didn't. Very few points were used. ------ That doesn't mean he's a leader. If he does those things but is still out of touch to the needs of the common man he's really not the ideal person to lead. His takes on starting a business blow my mind. I'm far more likely to loan my parents money at this point in my life then to ask them for anything. With those his intent was pure. He makes shit ton of money but he also gives a shit ton to his beliefs too. You don't have to agree with his religion to respect the fact that he has donated a fair share and does so every year. ----- his beliefs is one of the reasons I don't like him. If you can rationally look at his belief system and walk away thinking that is makes sense I suggest you seek help. Mormons are some scary people. It's like what Bill Maher said, When your the new religion in town you have to up the level of crazy He has core capabilities. Obama has none of the real-world experience in business that Mitt has. His lack of competency is a key factor in why his own people (congress) don't respect or trust him. ----- The goverment is not a business for one and it shouldn't be run like one. Based on what I've read about romney he loves to outsource things for profit...... See the issue here he's driven by the almighty dollar and thats not how the ogverment should be ran. Mitt has a track record of success. Again, pick all you want on his role in Bain and what their role was within the world they operated but at the end of the day, he has been 100x more successful than Obama and even Obama himself despises that fact. Delivering results is another key attribute Obama lacks. -------- He's track record is based on sending other peoples jobs over seas and downsizing companies that are making a profit so HE can make more profit.... I could go on but again read the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 You're correct in that the republicans are going to have to either move more middle, drop the heel-digging on less relevant (to our current situation) old school socially based issues and learn to lead through alternative means. ie.....the republican governors and congressional leaders will need to step up and lead. Christie in NJ is a good example. --- If the Republicans became true republicans and not people voting because of the bible I could once again vote GOP. But since I totally can't stand religion in my government GOP is no the way for me. In terms of being fucked, I would say it's the new upcoming voting base, including the young people better begin to sharpen up on the real issues and turn their bright lights on because many are living in the hear and now only and if at all perhaps the short term future. The best example is the world they are in today has $17T in debt and more coming that they will be paying for. ---- I think its funny how people scream about the debt BUT not a single president in the past 100 years a has actually made a impact in reducing IT. But the DEMS have actually slowed it down some. You're also right in that as they age, they will begin to realize all of this and before they know it they will be in their early 40's, still have a mortgage, a car payment or two and student loans all with a job that keeps them living paycheck to paycheck. Believe me there are shit-ton of people like that even right now and if that were me, I'd be fucking worried about what my life is going to look like in 15-20yrs. No need to worry about Social Security because if that's the case, they'll be working until they are very old just to survive. True Story. ---- Not disagreeing here, I max out my 401k because of exactly this. see above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-polls 54% to 44% for those making 100k+, that's a pretty massive difference. I admit, kinda surprised that a large majority of those polled with post-graduate education voted for Obama. Huge LOL at 90% of disillusion people who think the economy is good voting for Obama, I think that's really saying something. I'm sure this is a fairly urban sample too. Your right the economy is just so fucked up right now thats why I've hired so many engineer in the past 12 months my team has grown by 50%. Anyone with a education and that understand the issues would vote against the GOP because the GOP don't give a flying fuck about us. They care about those making 500K+ :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States 1 Loudoun County Virginia - Obama 52%, Romney 47% 2 Fairfax County Virginia - Obama 59%, Romney 39% 3 Arlington County Virginia - Obama 69%, Romney 29% 4 Hunterdon County New Jersey - Obama 40%, Romney 59% 5 Howard County Maryland - Obama 60%, Romney 38% 6 Somerset County New Jersey - Obama 52%, Romney 47% 7 Prince William County Virginia - Obama 57%, Romney 42% 8 Fauquier County Virginia - Obama 39%, Romney 59% 9 Douglas County Colorado - Obama 36%, Romney 63% 10 Montgomery County Maryland - Obama 71%, Romney 27% 11 Charles County Maryland - Obama 65%, Romney 34% 12 Nassau County New York - Obama 53%, Romney 46% 13 Stafford County Virginia - Obama 45%, Romney 54% 14 Morris County New Jersey - Obama 44%, Romney 55% 15 Putnam County New York - Obama 44%, Romney 55% 16 Calvert County Maryland - Obama 45%, Romney 53% 17 Williamson County Tennessee - Obama 26%, Romney 73% 18 Delaware County Ohio - Obama 38%, Romney 61% 19 Santa Clara County California - Obama 70%, Romney 28% 20 York County Virginia - Obama 39% Romney 60% Of the top 20 richest counties in the country, each took exactly half. My surprise observations from this list: California only has one county in the top 20 Tennessee is on the list 10 of the counties are in the general vicinity of Washington DC. Looks like government is big business. 7 of these went to Obama. Wikipedia doesn't have a precise definition of a landslide victory, but looks like it's roughly a difference on 20 percentage points. Going off that, 10 counties were landslides, 5 for Obama and 5 for Romney. Sounds like the smart rich people are pretty well evenly split. Some cases they seem to agree with the others in the geographical area, some cases they go opposite, and this goes for both sides. I don't quite see 100K as rich so your statement doesn't really apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I wonder how many of the people voting actually knew that had more than 2 choices. If you want to throw your vote away sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Your right the economy is just so fucked up right now thats why I've hired so many engineer in the past 12 months my team has grown by 50%. Anyone with a education and that understand the issues would vote against the GOP because the GOP don't give a flying fuck about us. They care about those making 500K+ :no: Yep, allll is well Thorne... http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/higher-taxes-spending-cuts-weigh-investors-markets-155956273.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Don't take this the wrong way but I really wish you could live the life of someone who's had everything destroyed.... Until you've done that you really don't understand... You talk about leeches and all this yet when I got laid off I was able to survive off my own savings for about a year doing side jobs and what not. So me or Obama or Romney or anyone who hasn't walked a day in your shoes doesn't understand the issues and how they need fixed? I'm pretty sure Obama has never walked in your shoes yet you seem to support him. My points above don't need repeated. Your issues are a combination of your decisions and choices combined with poor leadership within our own gov't both republican and democrat based. Until we put a leader with capability to lead and one that focuses on the issues in a prioritized way that is able to show true progress our world will continue to lump along. Your right the economy is just so fucked up right now thats why I've hired so many engineer in the past 12 months my team has grown by 50%. Anyone with a education and that understand the issues would vote against the GOP because the GOP don't give a flying fuck about us. They care about those making 500K+ :no: So by your measures the entire economy is enjoying your same situation of having to hire so many and yet need more and grown that much? Again the numbers don't tell that same story. So instead you think the GOP doesn't give a flying fuck about you and the company you work for? Are they publicly traded? Do they impact the greater economy around them and other companies? I would say you're right, they care about making more than $500k and making money in general. Wouldn't it be nice if we actually had a POTUS That cared about making money? Wouldn't it be nice to have one that actually did so for 20+ years? Wouldn't it be nice if we had one that actually understood business? Last I checked, yes, a GOP person does care because all of the above impacts the greater economy that if functioning correctly, would insure you hadn't lost your job, lost your benefits and were able to not have to sell off all your possessions and projects you worked for years on in order to pay for your healthcare costs. Me thinks America would be way better off accomplishing all that vs. trying to figure out ways to tax "the rich" to pay for 30M lives that are in turn still not going to have an incentive to do more. Let's raise the bar not lower it. Right the ship and save the people not figure out how to bail out a life raft only to dump more people in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 If you want to throw your vote away sure. There are powers in numbers but people have a leash hooked to their collar made from assumptions and tradition. "I have to vote for Obama or Romney or my vote will be wasted". Close minded voting is not good. Feeling like you are forced to chose from two people you do not like is not good. In one sentence you successfully showed how flawed this system is. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 There are powers in numbers but people have a leash hooked to their collar made from assumptions and tradition. "I have to vote for Obama or Romney or my vote will be wasted". Close minded voting is not good. Feeling like you are forced to chose from two people you do not like is not good. In one sentence you successfully showed how flawed this system is. Thank you. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yep, allll is well Thorne... http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/higher-taxes-spending-cuts-weigh-investors-markets-155956273.html Talk about Knee Jerk reactions. I'd wager there are tons of really happy investors right now becasue there buying the shit out of this knee jerk reacation. no policy has enacted that really was a game changer. It'll bounce back . my suggestions is mid day tomorrow buy bnuy buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 F-it. D.Wiggs for Pres! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 F-it. D.Wiggs for Pres! He already fixed the debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 He already fixed the debt And he'd double NASA's budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 And he'd double NASA's budget. without using a single ounce of lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 He's pro life and pro choice at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Spoiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 The way I see it is he bailed out a bunch of union workers who instead of working for one of our big three now work for a company that in the end takes their dollars back to a land thousands of miles away. I also see Jeeps that today are made in the US being sold to China yet talks are that they are going to require we make them over there in order to sell them over there. Yeah, that makes sense but hey.....we're not cutting production here, we just simply going to make the jeeps sold in China on their dirt not ours. I'm sure we'll be employing all Americans over there too. :dumb: I clarified it before and I'll do it again now (for the last time). Jeeps are made in the US right now, used to be made in China for the local market, and used to be made (not sure if they still are) in Austria for Europe. In order to sell vehicles in China the government REQUIRES you enter a joint venture with a government owned company and produce the vehicles there. They used to ship "kits" to China and fulfill this requirement by just having assembly plants in the country. China caught on to this and now there are huge tarriffs for importation. The ONLY way you can sell a vehicle in China (without massive taxes) is to build it there. It's been this way for years, it's like this for every company. China is a very large, and fast growing market. It's just smart business to sell vehicles there, plus, with the tensions between them and Japan, American brands have had a huge spkie in sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Because they listened to 30 second, evil-speaking commercials instead of learning facts. Oh, and I hardly know any females that voted Dem. They saw through the BS. Wow how did I miss this. Funny thing is I learned about it from speaking to my mother in law that has her doctorate in education... The topics that include pay equality, the ability to make decisions with their own body, and even things stretching as far as medicare is there (its a far stretch but none the less its there). The biggest gap she saw was that it was treated like is wasnt important. Yes there are many many topics that need to be touched on but you cant blow off things like pay equality and expect people to be ok with it. When that happened the democrats saw how important it was to woman, addressed it, and got some easy votes. What was really frustrating is that there was this myth manufactured by Democrats in Washington that the Republican Party as a whole is against women,” said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, who said she watched with disappointment as her friend Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts was hurt by the broader fight and lost his bid for re-election, to a woman. “There is no doubt we need to do a better job as a party in reaching out to women, recruiting strong women candidates and sending a more positive message,” Collins said. Its a real thing. Yes a lot of it is the democrats trying to get that extra vote, but the republicans dont have much to fall back on to stop the perception. The senator herself said the party needs to do a better job. I highlighted both the perception and how she feels... Its got to be more than 30 seconds of evil commercial watching to make her feel that way.. and many woman who voted with that same perception. Edited November 9, 2012 by V8 Beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Since I'm bored and its late... I voted for Romney. Not because he had some magical plan, because until I see it I'm caling b.s. Not because I feel he could magically fix all there errors that date back to before I was born. I voted for him because the odds were in his favor of having the ability to create the biggest positive change. Obama has nothing to lose now. He doesnt have to play the reelection game. I compare it to an nfl player versus a college player. The college players still have heart and drive because they are trying to make it to the pros. While many pros are just there at this point to get a paycheck and will sit out games. You know the ones that sit out if they tear a fingernail and mess up your fantasy team. Obama will be that spoiled professional by the end of the 4th year, Ill put money on that. I pay over $30k in taxes every year. While I am not against helping people that are less fortunate, I am against giving them enough that I can feel the impact. I'm against less money going into my 401k or my kids college funds because he wants to experiment with insurance and what not. Everytime Romney gave the other party more ammo I cringed because I was looking forward to lower taxes. He kept giving people reasons not to vote for him and didnt spend enough time gaining back the people he lost. In my opinion he was winning when he started and lost it with bonehead moves. People are very sensitive and worry about numero uno... but at the same time will look out for a neighbor if its important enough. Its a very thin line to work with. You cant talk about the deficit to a bunch of Americans with bad credit. More people have been forced to see the other side due to the mortgage fiasco so the empathy for the less fortunate is big. You cant go around saying you dont care about certain people. A a leader you need to lead everyone and care about everyone equally. Romney lost the election with one comment about "47%" in my opinion. Even some of the people that agreed with him changed their vote because "that's not how a president should act". I hope in 4 years the GOP sends someone that the majority can stand behind so we can start to fix this country. If we are lucky over the next 4 years it wont be too bad. I've already calculated in the possible impact to my family financially and have my kids futures taken care of. I would suggest anyone n my shoes does the same thing because your wallets will feel it. Edited November 9, 2012 by V8 Beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I don't quite see 100K as rich so your statement doesn't really apply. Maybe because we live in an area with a better economy than most of the country? I know it's not very up to date but Wikipedia shows that in 2003, if you had a household income of $100,000 or more, you were in the top 10% of the country. Top 10% isn't "rich" to you? Bump that up to $150,000 and you are now top 3% of the country. Here's some more reading material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 So me or Obama or Romney or anyone who hasn't walked a day in your shoes doesn't understand the issues and how they need fixed? I'm pretty sure Obama has never walked in your shoes yet you seem to support him. Tim, I hope you realize just about every topic of debate Thorne posts in, eludes to this type of attitude in some way. I stopped reading everything he posts, long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 instead of Obama getting elected and worrying about our economy, his first action was to dick around with the UN over an arms treaty. What a shocker. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Tim, I hope you realize just about every topic of debate Thorne posts in, eludes to this type of attitude in some way. I stopped reading everything he posts, long ago. I clarified things a bit via pm. He knows me and now a bit better than before. I have more than shoes I am wearing today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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