SRTurbo04 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 This is just sickening. Scares me to think my wife could be in this suitation since she teachers. thankfully shes teachers on a military base . cleaned up again quit with the gun control would save lives. Not the time nor place next person that tries to cause a ruckas gets a insta ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't think there is a realistic fix for this. Zooming out you'd have to change society as a whole, instilling fear and respect back into kids. I wasn't exactly a poster child but I still grew up calling every adult sir/ma'am and "wait till I tell your father" was the last thing I ever wanted to hear. I don't have any pie charts or sources but somewhere over the past few decades I feel that's all been lost. THIS THIS THIS.... People today have ZERO respect. I couldn't even imagine being a teacher today...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 THIS THIS THIS.... People today have ZERO respect. I couldn't even imagine being a teacher today...... I don't think manners cure what must be a severe mental health defect. Even the most hardened criminals have zero tolerance for harm to children. I think there is a correlation somewhere, but not there. And, I don't think it is going to be as obvious as one single culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't think manners cure what must be a severe mental health defect. Even the most hardened criminals have zero tolerance for harm to children. I think there is a correlation somewhere, but not there. And, I don't think it is going to be as obvious as one single culprit. +1 There is a reason they seperate the sexual offenders from general population in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't think manners cure what must be a severe mental health defect. Even the most hardened criminals have zero tolerance for harm to children. I think there is a correlation somewhere, but not there. And, I don't think it is going to be as obvious as one single culprit. Manners as in a more solid foundation. A base the incorporates time, learning, and discipline. One that can help avoid trouble down the road caused by not having a solid foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Why are these crimes most always perpetrated by white middle/upper class kids? I think that correlation is far stronger than gun ownership/violence which has been falling for 20 years. I'm all for "racially profiling" every nerdy looking white kid wearing black approaching any and all public places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I know nothing is 100% effective, but teaching your kid to be a good person is a really good starting point. Family values are dissapearing I thought this was all in one post, wtf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Manners as in a more solid foundation. A base the incorporates time, learning, and discipline. One that can help avoid trouble down the road caused by not having a solid foundation. I'd be on your team if we were talking school yard fist fights. It is a far leap from being a disrespectful prick, even taken to an extreme, to not valuing the life of innocent children. There is an intrinsic moral compass that compels 99.9% of humans to not kill. Training a human to kill typically takes a great deal of mental preparation (ie. armed forces) or a severe mental deficiency. Further, if we were to examine the demographics, I think you'd find far less "respect and manners" in poorer kids who don't seem to be the aggressors in these types of incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-shooting-school-principal/index.html?hpt=hp_c2 Principal Dawn Hochsprung, killed in Friday's shooting at her Connecticut elementary school, recently installed a new security system to ensure student safety. What a fucking tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahd-ler Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I'm speaking from the top of my head here - and I'd like to consult the literature before saying I feel confident in this - but it seems like educational facilities have been a prime target for mass shootings/killings. We've got this, Columbine, and the shooting at Virginia Tech - all of which come to mind. And they make easy targets for shooters: lots of people in one place, and the facilities are almost always unsecured. I think it's likely far past due for us to realize that the continued vulnerability of educational facilities is unacceptable. We should strive for schools to have the the same level of security as psychiatric hospitals, places of government, and correctional facilities. Haven't read the rest of the thread before quoting so I'm unsure if anyone else as touched this topic, I also feel its an extremely easy target in part to no one is allowed to conceal carry in schools. Gun control shouldn't be discussed at the moment, but I feel this maniacs go for "high numbers" and feel that they are less likely to be stopped in school... This being said I dont know why you don't see more churches as target as well... My thoughts a prayers are to all the victims and family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Having three boys who are all in Elementary school, it's hard to describe how this even makes me feel. Beyond the anger, the feeling of fear and helplessness are gut wrenching. I thought watching 9/11 unfold was the worst anything on TV could affect me, but personally this was worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 To add to Johns statement. The school my son goes to is locked all day long and no one is allowed in the doors during school hours. It has two sets of doors. First set you can enter into small area then another set of doors. You cant get past the second set of doors without be scheduled to go past. When picking up your kid during school hours you wait in between the sets of doors and your kid is sent to the office then allowed to exit in the waiting area after that. One set of front doors is never opened. If you are going into school you must go thru a side door in between these doors and sign in the office. ^^ this. My son and daughter's school is like that. There's only one way in and it's through the main office where you also meet a Dublin Police Officer along with their staff. There's one officer in the elementary school and one in the middle school next door. Tax dollars well spent IMO and I've always felt good when going in to meet them for lunch, etc. It's not fool-proof as much isn't but I'd be happy to pay a few bucks more for a metal detector if they chose to have one installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Gump 9 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Such a sad sad day. I pray for those families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 A .223 was used...sure we can bet on what's going to happen next. Very sad day there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharris89 Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 My daughter is in kg. I keep hugging her tonight and she doesn't understand why. I pray for the families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 My daughter is in kg. I keep hugging her tonight and she doesn't understand why. I pray for the families. My oldest is too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 I know nothing is 100% effective, but teaching your kid to be a good person is a really good starting point. Family values are dissapearing I thought this was all in one post, wtf. Agreed. I think people are getting away with more and more, and some just tend to push the limits until they snap and go too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Facts as far as I can tell: 1 shooter Ryan Lanza, 24 years old, went into the school to kill his mother, a kindergarten teacher among others. He was from the area. They investigated his home in Hoboken, NJ and found his father dead there. 20 kids killed, 7 adults including the shooter. Not sure if shooter's death was self-inflicted or not. Doesn't really matter. I'm heartbroken for all the families affected by this. Today no one is pro gun or anti gun control. We're not pro-homeschool or pro-school security. We are all parents, brothers, sisters, or children. We will all struggle tonight as we lie down and try to imagine life if this had happened to our family, and my only hope is that we will all wake up tomorrow morning and, instead of trusting our neighbors and coworkers and friends less, that we might reach out to one another in the hopes that a little kindness will prevent this kind of stuff in the future. EDIT: Father, not brother dead in hoboken Close, but the kid's even more sick than your story tells. The Shooter was 20 year old Adam Lanza. For some reason he was carrying his brothers ID so he was originally misidentified. Ryan Lanza claimed he has not had contact with his brother since 2010. According to NBC, he lived with his mother and shot her in the face, then went to the school afterwards. The school had security doors where you have to ring a bell and the stadd inside has to buzz you in. They think he was allowed in becuause the staff recognized him. He was carrying two handguns and supposedly "100's" of round of ammunition. The 0.223 was in the car. Supposedly his girlfriend and her friend are still missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 I remember when my high school first started locking some of the doors, and stopped allowing backpacks, and started having a k9 unit at one of the doors. It felt like a prison. Of course, this was right after columbine happened. My school had three separate buildings we had to walk between so there's no way to keep that school on lock down, and I would have been rather unhappy had it been. I can see locking down an elementary school but not so much with a high school. Teens need to be able to feel a certain amount of freedom. Maybe along with having assigned cops have a panic button in every classroom. Someone hits it, all the doors in the building magnetically seal and can only be opened by someone with the correct rfid badge like many of us have to get into work. Skip the student GPS tracking and id badges and all that other silliness that just makes it feel like a prison to the kids. And also expel any kid that hits the panic button as a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 I remember when my high school first started locking some of the doors, and stopped allowing backpacks, and started having a k9 unit at one of the doors. It felt like a prison. Of course, this was right after columbine happened. My school had three separate buildings we had to walk between so there's no way to keep that school on lock down, and I would have been rather unhappy had it been. I can see locking down an elementary school but not so much with a high school. Teens need to be able to feel a certain amount of freedom. Maybe along with having assigned cops have a panic button in every classroom. Someone hits it, all the doors in the building magnetically seal and can only be opened by someone with the correct rfid badge like many of us have to get into work. Skip the student GPS tracking and id badges and all that other silliness that just makes it feel like a prison to the kids. And also expel any kid that hits the panic button as a joke Yup....I can't say I would want to see kids get educated in an environment where guns are with every guard at every corner...It seems like it would feel way too "prisony" and wouldn't foster a good setting even though it could potentially provide the necessary safety. I heard on NPR on my way home from work that there are about 20 or so mass crowd shootings every year in the USA on average and less than 200 people total on average die as a result (I think they said 150 but I was surprised at how low the number was). On the flipside, there are more than 15,000 homicides from non-crowd level shootings. Basically, although it is a very very shitty situation, when put into perspective it just sucks to come to the realization that it really isn't as big of a deal as it seems......It's tough to write that but it's true if the numbers reported in the previous paragraph are true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ta Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 very sad. give everyone the right to bear arms and the choice to carry. I bet at least one teacher would have chosen to carry. Many lives could have been saved.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 This makes me not want to have kids. On both sides. I can't imagine the feelings for anyone directly involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944s2 Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 very sad. give everyone the right to bear arms and the choice to carry. I bet at least one teacher would have chosen to carry. Many lives could have been saved.... 100% agree the reward is much higher than the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 All insults or anything that could lead to mud slinging will be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 If you disagree, try saying so without insults. Example... Ok - I disagree with you. This is why... Not OK - You are an ignorant idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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