RC K9 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I was thinking about this build this weekend. Good to see an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man of Steele Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 What numbers are you hoping for/expecting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Cool build. The 35r in a T4 was perfect for Turbo TB Supercoupes we have done in the pats. I think you would see a LARGE gain from going with a better flowing IC set up. A dual pass with a square end tank is about he worst flowing thing you could put in front of the car. Yah, I found that out after getting some more driving time with it pretty quickly. How you learn I suppose. I was hoping I would notice a bigger difference in IAT's that would help with making power since the exchanger is pretty much a two pass system, but no luck there really. Maybe if I was constantly running on a hot day it would make a difference, but the 180 bend is just way too much for it. Already have a replacement of the original going back on the car. I was thinking about this build this weekend. Good to see an update. Thanks, glad to see that this build is sticking out in people's minds lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linn1647545492 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 is your best pass to dates still 15.2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 What numbers are you hoping for/expecting Im ok not making a lot of top end if I can get some more torque down low. I'll probably make around the same power overall, just at a slightly lower rpm and will probably taper off a lot sooner compared to now where I am still making power past 5500rpms. is your best pass to dates still 15.2? Yah, unfortunately. I have only been to the track twice, first time got a lot of runs in, second time only got two runs in, both mid 15. STill the same issue of the car falling on its face at low rpms/launch. Thats why I am going back to a stockish cam, bring the torque back down low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Have you thought about a different turbo setup? If you do a compound turbo setup it could help you spool a little lower for better low end response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKilbourne Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 A 2-step would be a good idea on launching a stick car with a turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Have you thought about a different turbo setup? If you do a compound turbo setup it could help you spool a little lower for better low end response. I've thought about a couple different things. The way my headers are set up two small twins would be pretty easy, but I feel right now the cam is holding me back. Ultimately I'm limited by the technology of the engine, I don't want to make super crazy power or anything, I just want to have the car at least drive like it did before the turbo when not in boost, which right now it isn't doing. A 2-step would be a good idea on launching a stick car with a turbo. I actually do have a two step, I put in a N2MB two step/no lift. It did help a bit, but even 2stepping at 4000rpms (first try was at 3500rpms) the car squeaked the tires, tires grabbed, and then the rpms dropped to around 1500rpms and the car just bogged. My 60' times were around 2.6-2.7 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Still need to do some editing and get some music to it, but my friend and I made a time lapse of putting the engine back together after swapping out the camshaft. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GNtJvfCXDc&feature=youtu.be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I actually do have a two step, I put in a N2MB two step/no lift. It did help a bit, but even 2stepping at 4000rpms (first try was at 3500rpms) the car squeaked the tires, tires grabbed, and then the rpms dropped to around 1500rpms and the car just bogged. My 60' times were around 2.6-2.7 seconds. I wouldn't try this without an EGT sensor. If the Ford maps allow a temporary bump over to a different map or you can come up with a custom map that pulls timing and heavily enriches the mixture in the light load and higher rpm areas, you can get exhaust wheel moving pretty quickly. Just a quick thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I wouldn't try this without an EGT sensor. If the Ford maps allow a temporary bump over to a different map or you can come up with a custom map that pulls timing and heavily enriches the mixture in the light load and higher rpm areas, you can get exhaust wheel moving pretty quickly. Just a quick thought. I do have an EGT, its right after my turbo. The three gauges I have above my radio are my water temp, oil pressure, and EGT. I only 2 step for at most a couple seconds. It goes rich bc its just not sparking, so all the fuel is still there, its just not igniting it. The stock ford "2step" is a neutral rev limit which cuts fuel, not spark, which is why I went to the stand alone N2MB box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Got the mustang out on the road tonight. went slow at first checking things (SCT livelink datalogging is just the worst, everytime I try to do a new datalog it freezes the computer and I have to spend 5-10 minutes getting everything hooked back up) and then made a couple small pulls. The car seemed to do really well minus the powersteering pump being beyond angry, time for a replacement. Later my friend came over who helped me put the time lapse together so we went back out again to get a 3rd gear pull. Its not even funny how much better it drives right now even with the tune being slightly off but still safe. AFR's are really rich still at WOT, can prob lean it out to around 11.3-11.5, right now it hovers between 10.8 and 11.0. Spark is around 18*. Old custom ground cam is in red, stock cam in blue. IAT's for red were 72*F , IAT's for blue were 50*F measured at the maf at peak rpm. Other main difference included changing the intercooler from a same in/out to an opposite side inlet/outlet which flows better. Runs were made on the same stretch of road, with the same two in the car with the same driver. These numbers aren't meant to be actual dyno numbers, but a fair representation of the change in hp/tq between the two setups. 3rd gear pull, assuming 3550 car weight and 450 passenger weight for both occupants. Boost comes on so much harder at low rpms, much better for what I was trying to get to. Will try to get the tune ironed out this weekend as when I initially come off the throttle the afr's go pretty lean with no load (so no concern) but still would like to get it set up to where between shifts it sees at most 14.5-15afr instead of 18. Also want to get the afr at WOT back up to around 11.2-11.5 and dial in teh spark timing a bit more in the 4000-4500rpm range where I start to really loose torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Got the mustang out on the road tonight. went slow at first checking things (SCT livelink datalogging is just the worst, everytime I try to do a new datalog it freezes the computer and I have to spend 5-10 minutes getting everything hooked back up) and then made a couple small pulls. The car seemed to do really well minus the powersteering pump being beyond angry, time for a replacement. Later my friend came over who helped me put the time lapse together so we went back out again to get a 3rd gear pull. Its not even funny how much better it drives right now even with the tune being slightly off but still safe. AFR's are really rich still at WOT, can prob lean it out to around 11.3-11.5, right now it hovers between 10.8 and 11.0. Spark is around 18*. Old custom ground cam is in red, stock cam in blue. IAT's for red were 72*F , IAT's for blue were 50*F measured at the maf at peak rpm. Other main difference included changing the intercooler from a same in/out to an opposite side inlet/outlet which flows better. Runs were made on the same stretch of road, with the same two in the car with the same driver. These numbers aren't meant to be actual dyno numbers, but a fair representation of the change in hp/tq between the two setups. 3rd gear pull, assuming 3550 car weight and 450 passenger weight for both occupants. Boost comes on so much harder at low rpms, much better for what I was trying to get to. Will try to get the tune ironed out this weekend as when I initially come off the throttle the afr's go pretty lean with no load (so no concern) but still would like to get it set up to where between shifts it sees at most 14.5-15afr instead of 18. Also want to get the afr at WOT back up to around 11.2-11.5 and dial in teh spark timing a bit more in the 4000-4500rpm range where I start to really loose torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Keep in mind there is slight latency in the feedback the O2 sensor is generating on throttle transitions. You're also fighting a generic control strategy, in GM world, called Deceleration Fuel Cut Off (DFCO). On one control system, I had to use an inductive clamp/breakout harness to monitor at the physical injector as logs show calculated IPW wasn't 0 as expected during this mode of operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Keep in mind there is slight latency in the feedback the O2 sensor is generating on throttle transitions. You're also fighting a generic control strategy, in GM world, called Deceleration Fuel Cut Off (DFCO). On one control system, I had to use an inductive clamp/breakout harness to monitor at the physical injector as logs show calculated IPW wasn't 0 as expected during this mode of operation. Thanks for the thoughts. I know mine has the same sort of decel fuel cut off, but it usually takes at least 3-5 seconds before it will start cutting fuel. I will have to mess with the datalogging a bit more and try to get the MAF a bit closer. I plan on taking it back up to DMS again in the spring to try to get the last bit of stuff just dialed in and play with the timing tables a bit more. In other news, Xmas came early for me this year: Maximum Motorsports Kmember, A arms, Coilover kit, Solid Rack Bushings and bumpsteer kit. Have been wanting to go tubular for a while so that I could reroute my exhaust away from a bunch of stuff that the downpipe runs right up against, adn wtih this I can run it under the k member with still enough clearance for driving. Kept going back and forth on what brand and just decided to bite the bullet and spring for the MM stuff since I found a vendor who gave me a great deal on the whole set up + shipping (MM's shipping is rediculous). I went with the MM because I really plan on being hard on the car for autocross and some track days, and I want to have the extra security with the best brand out there. I figured a couple extra hundred now compared to how much I have in my car is worth it lol. I have Dec. 20th - Jan 4th off from work with only a couple days reserved for family for holidays, so during the down time this will be being installed, exhaust refabbed, and then finally putting the car away for the winter. Hopefully the snow holds off long enough to get one or two days womping on it without it being terrible outside, so far ohio has held off from being too cold but those days will be behind us shortly I imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Been working on getting the new front suspension in. Got everything pretty much taken off that I wanted to (I have a lot of the front stuff off for cleaning up my powersteering system so it worked out to do the k member now with a bunch of weight off of the front). Got the stock suspension out last night with just the stock k member in it, and pulled the stock K member and got the MM one into place this morning. Engine brace holding the engine up. Got it from harbor freight and it worked really well. Also had a jack under teh oil pan as a back up, can't be too safe. Stock Vs old (we weighed them, and the MM was about 35lbs where the stock was around 43lbs, so not too much difference in weight but the clearance is awesome). Dat MM bling The biggest pain was getting the 14yr old bolts that hold the k member to the frame above the spring perches on either side. I need to find some new bolts bc mine are pitted pretty bad, so I will hold off on putting the rest of the front suspension together until I can source some bolts. I know CJ pony parts has them, but they are $30 a piece. Looking into some other potential options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I have one of those HF engine braces...it is one of those surprisingly useful tools. Understanding that the bolts are pitted, do you have access to a media tumbler? Might be worth the savings in bolt costs to have them cleaned before springing full price for bolts that aren't needed. I know I wish I went this route rebuilding my tee-ruk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have one of those HF engine braces...it is one of those surprisingly useful tools. Understanding that the bolts are pitted, do you have access to a media tumbler? Might be worth the savings in bolt costs to have them cleaned before springing full price for bolts that aren't needed. I know I wish I went this route rebuilding my tee-ruk... Thanks for the thoughts. The bolts were pretty rotten, almost a 1/8" less diameter then what they were supposed to be, so they got replaced lol. Picture below kinda shows how bad they were. That one was one of the better bolts lol. I ended up getting a whole new bolt set for upper mounts, lower mounts, and control arms for $85. Over the past week and a half been working on getting all the front suspension in the car. Ran into an issue where the upper k member bolts were rotten, so I have been waiting for a week for my replacement UPR bolts for the upper and lower bolts. I also had to find some hardened nuts for the upper bolts because my stock ones were also pretty nasty, and one was seized onto one of the bolts anyways. Finally have all the new bolts with hardened fastners. New bolts compared to old bolts: New bolts finally going in: before I torqued all the bolts I made sure the k member stayed in alignment after measuring per MM's instructions (plumb bob measurements between the k member drilled location on the control arm mount to the rear subframe bolts) and then I drilled an 1/8" hole in the flat plate between the upper k member mount and the frame rail so whenever I need to tighten it down or take the k member out we can easily realign the k member with that drill bit on either side. Engine support stand finally off of the car. This is one of those rare gems from harbor freight. Engine back on the k member finally I got most of the accessories back on the car last night. I need to get a new idler pulley for the tensioner as the bearing is completely gone. I also started working on finishing up my power steering line to replace the GT one I had on the car that I had to somewhat twist to make work. I decided to make an AN line for it that is desinged to hold the pressure and fluid of the power steering system (teflon lined stainless braid line). I need to get another 90* fitting because when I initially eye baled it it looked likea 45* on one end and a 90* on the other would work, but I need two 90* bends. Here is the end on one line, it wasn't that bad to put together so long as you follow the instructions. Based on all the videos on youtube I thought this would be a real struggle but it wasn't bad at all. Only thing I am waiting on is the knuckles for the front suspension. The Tie rod holes have to be drilled out to 5/8" for the MM bumpsteer kit. Once I get that on and my bumpsteer spacing set up the car should be ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Got the new tensioner pulley today and got that on as well as all the small miscellaneous stuff (like the turbo lol) and looking to see what I need to do to reroute the exhaust. Looks like I will need to make two "S" bends about 90/90 each, and then just a couple pieces of straight in between it. Think I should be able to bust it out with the stainless 3" piping I have left over plus the current exhaust stuff. Just a couple pieces to grind and set up. Will post photos of the exhaust fab when it gets going, probably later tomorrow/Friday. hopefully will get my knuckles on Friday as well and can get the bump steer all set up then take it to the alignment rack I can use at work hopefully next week if the weather stays bearable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Got the powersteering line all set up finally. Had to spend some time making sure the fitting fit the right way and stayed in place while tightening them down. Installed: Cleans up the engine bay a good bit my not having that ps line from the gt in there since it doesnt fit right and almost had to be twisted 180* over the length of the line to get the fittings to line up right. Also started on a lot of my fab work for the exhaust. Cut the end off of my dump pipe to reroute it around the sway bar to go under the k member. It took a couple of hours and a lot of grinding, cutting, and test fitting to get it to line up right. Everything is a good 1-2" away from it and I have about 1/2-3/4" clearance on the downpipe to the k member. It worked out well because the maximum motorsport's steering rack bushing have the option of raising up the steering rack. Test fitting and grinding: Welded up. Need to get some new vband flanges to make it work properly. I checked the ground clearances with the bottom pipe going under the k member braced in and on the stands I had 13.75" clerance to the bottom of the k from my cement floor, and 13.5" ground clearance to the bottom of the dump pipe at the lowest point, so I don't think I will have any ground clearance issues. The last part of the pipe is the easy part, just an s bend and some straight pipe. I already have to pieces that fit the s angles that I need, so I just need to get my vband flanges tomorrow for the dump pipe, adn then make the pipe from there to my current mid pipe which should take all of an hour as its just welding on some straight pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Got a lot of the exhaust done today. I washed it late tonight, so it will go on the car tomorrow morning and then I will run the car to make sure I don't have any exhaust leaks from the new welds. Cutting/Grinding/Welding How it goes under the k member: From teh drivers side wheel well looking towards the front. The piping only stays as low as it needs to then it pops back up next to the bellhousing. My welding won't be winning any awards, but I don't think I should have any leaking issues. All in all I have a total of 3 pieces now instead of 5. I also don't run the exhaust next to my powersteering lines, turbo oil feed line, alternator and starter wiring, clutch cable, and all in all just the hot spot that it was for having it run right next to the header. I also don't have to take off the whole dump pipe in order to change spark plugs now. I checked my measurements and fitting as I went, adn right now I am at about 3.5-3.75" clearance to the bottom of the exhaust. I have probably about 1-1.25" clearance between the top of the exhaust to the bottom of the tie rod boot on the steering rack. Depending on how things go, I may try to bring it up a little bit if possible, but I will leave it like this for now to see how it is. I had to get creative to figure out my ground clearance (woo math). Since the lowest part of the exhaust is in line with the wheels, I am hoping that it shouldn't run into any big issues as compared to the middle where it could potentially angle out with suspension travel to grind/scrape. My machine shop is closed until monday, so I will hopefully be getting my knuckles then so that I can get the car back on the ground. I will also be making a bumpsteer gauge similar to maximum motorsports as I have some wood/bolts/hinges laying around and I bought a dial indicator from harbor freight today for $15. Total I will have in it will be about $20 compared to MM's price of $120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 It's cool watching this come together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Holy shit. Those bolts were toast. Thanks for the perspective. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Got all the front suspension buttoned up and got the car back on the ground. one thing I noticed is that my coilovers are extremely close to my tires, not touching, but I cant get my fingers between it either which I would like at a minimum. I will get some camber bolts so I can push the coilover set up away from the tire, and then correct the alignment with the CC plates I have up on top and that should get me all the clearance I need. If that isn't quite enough, I will have to get a small wheel spacer to add just a little bit, something like a 2-3mm spacing. Took a while getting the ride height lined up on both sides, get one side set right, and then the other side would go down or up, so constantly back and forth between each side till they both sat about the same. Right now I have about 2.5" clearance between the tires and the fender, which is about where it was before the suspension swap. Both rocker panels on either side are within about 1/16"-1/8", so that will be good enough till I can get it on my alignment rack at work, still need to get the toe set. Friend is coming over tomorrow and we will get that set up pretty quickly. Last thing I checked was the exhaust height clearance, its an all amazing 2-5/8", so it could use some help. I have a lift at work and I can bring my welder in and I have access to a chop saw there, so I bought a spare SS vband set up off of amazon and I should be able to get another 0.5-1" clearance on the ground by cutting out the vband and a touch on the pipes currently and then weld them up on the lift. Will make things a lot easier. Started the car up when it was still on jackstands to get the powersteering system bled, no leaks anywhere, so looks like the hose I made will work just fine. A lot cleaner looking to me. Only noise is from when I push the brakes, so maybe my booster is going out. There is an obvious whine from the PS pump when I push the brakes, so hopefully it will "break in" and the noise won't be as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toph6888 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Nothing too much to report on the mustang since its so crappy out right now, not even worth trying to get in the garage really. I have started talking with a company called spintech mufflers to try to get a clearance pipe made up consisting of a 3" round to an oval to another 3" round that I can weld into my exhaust under my k member to get me a lot more room. The oval is 2-1/8" x 3.5" so I gain almost an inch of clearance there, plus I can move the piping up probably another 1" from where it is right now, which woudl take me from 2-5/8" to probably around 4.5" clearance, which should make the k member the lowest part of the car. Hopefully it all works out, this is what I am essentially trying to get: http://www.spintechmufflers.com/images/uploads/UNIQUEPRODUCTS/TransitionPipe2.jpg In other more interesting news, I sold my daily driver outback to my brother, and seeing as I didn't need quite as much space to haul parts now that the mustang is done I went and picked this up all the way out in baltimore (6.5hrs away, bah. Closest World Rally Blue one that wasn't Bro'd out). 2014 WRX 5spd with 17k miles on it. Only mods are a basic lowering spring kit, sway bars, endlinks, rear camber arms, and the Rota Grids/Conti Tires. Original owner also gave me all the stock suspension parts and the stock rims so I will have something to put some blizzacks on. All in all plan on keeping it mainly stock, nothing crazy. I ordered a shifter and bushing kit for it bc the stock one is pretty high and the bushing are really spongey. Other then that maybe make an intake pipe for it since places want over $300 for a CAI, maybe get a turbo back exhaust later on and a tune for it. Right now it drives great as it is and really doesn't need anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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