99StockGT Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I hate these types of threads but I have to make it. Been bouncing around in my mind for weeks so maybe getting it out on paper(screen?) will help. Humor me as I get this out of my system, I'm sure others have thought the same thing. Will the golden days ever return? I look at the cars being modded/upgraded/raced these days and for the most part with the exception of some exotics it's generally the same stuff we have been working with for years. Those "Fast and Furious" days are still around, though with less underglow lights. There are still droves and droves of 90s Civics, Preludes, Eclipses and Talons. 240s, Supras, 300zs, and 3000 GTs...many of which it almost felt like the manufactures were begging us to work magic on. The late 80s and all through the 90s gave us some awesome cars. Generally not overly complicated, modifiable, built to take some solid abuse and keep on ticking. On top of all of that they were generally not terribly expensive to buy. Think we'll ever see that again? So many cars are put together with sensors managing everything, with engines tweaked to a razors edge for efficiency and fuel economy. Rear wheel drive is almost a bad word these days, transmissions adding more and taller gears to increase MPGs (8 speeds?!) Rant could go on forever but....just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar231 Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Just like how on new cars if you hit the gas+brake at the same time it cuts the gas due to saftey reasons. Guess no more brake boosting. I know what you mean though, it seems like the 80s and 90s sports cars were over-engineered or over-built. Look at 2jz's, 800-900+ on STOCK BOTTOM ENDS, LS1's making 600 on stock bottom ends, and etc. Seems like cars back there were alot stronger than ones produced today. So many cars today are already tuned for the maximum from when you purchase them, and if you put too much of anything into them they break. Cars now days are also controlled by a sensor for everything. If one sensor isnt acting right with the other or is giving a diff reading (Say due to mods) then the car will limp mode or do all sorts of stuff. I feel like cars are getting WAY to controlled by computers (Which may be nice for people who dont mod them and just DD stuff) but for us enthusiasts, it ruins it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Hope that didn't sound too much like I was preaching from a soap box(it did) I just needed to vent. That's exactly my point Fubar. Glad I'm not the only one quietly raging behind a computer screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaddyBuiltRacing Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Google search 2015 Mustang, that will show you where the car industry is heading. Car manufacturers feel people don't care about going fast, rather they care about getting 50mpg and having hands free apps at their disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Brian Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Modding cars will always be around. Humans have wanted their belongings personalized for centuries, so, no, it will never go away. However, I bet in a decade or so RWD/V8/"sports" cars will be like the assault weapon ban push is now. Quote me in ten years when those threads pop up everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the advancement of technology I really do. The incredible difference in power between my Mustang in '99 which was decently fast for its time and the new modern 5.0s is incredible. Hell modern mini vans and sedans have more power and acceleration! I'm all for being responsible I really am, but it feels like a lot of the smile is being engineered out of modern cars. Like Fubar said, when something gets turned off or disconnected and it kicks into limp mode it doesn't make you feel good. What is the $$$ value to be able to just romp on the gas slide the ass out around a corner or shamelessly burn out in a parking lot without little lights blinking at you and shutting off your fun? How many cars now are going to "by wire" controls so you can barely feel the road in your steering/breaks/transmission? It's why I don't own anything more modern than a 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Merkur LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furloaf Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Just sounds like there is a growing market for programmable ECUs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 We haven't really began modding direct injection on a large scale, and factory ECUs just keep getting better. The kind of power common on modded 80s and 90s cars now come out of the factory operating smoother and making more. The way I see it there are just more options and ways to have fun with a car then ever. The more hot rodding changes the more it stays the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) I hate these types of threads but I have to make it. Been bouncing around in my mind for weeks so maybe getting it out on paper(screen?) will help. Humor me as I get this out of my system, I'm sure others have thought the same thing. Will the golden days ever return? I look at the cars being modded/upgraded/raced these days and for the most part with the exception of some exotics it's generally the same stuff we have been working with for years. Those "Fast and Furious" days are still around, though with less underglow lights. There are still droves and droves of 90s Civics, Preludes, Eclipses and Talons. 240s, Supras, 300zs, and 3000 GTs...many of which it almost felt like the manufactures were begging us to work magic on. The late 80s and all through the 90s gave us some awesome cars. Generally not overly complicated, modifiable, built to take some solid abuse and keep on ticking. On top of all of that they were generally not terribly expensive to buy. Think we'll ever see that again? So many cars are put together with sensors managing everything, with engines tweaked to a razors edge for efficiency and fuel economy. Rear wheel drive is almost a bad word these days, transmissions adding more and taller gears to increase MPGs (8 speeds?!) Rant could go on forever but....just a thought The advancement of technology may be a good thing... I can agree, some of the newer stuff is insane on sensor's or whatever the case may be, but this is likely the same stuff said back in the mid 90's when EFI was getting to be pretty much universal. I'm sure when the LS engines, hell even the LT engines were first introduced this same exact stuff was said. It's a learning curve and as time goes on, company's and people will find way's around it. Just like we have with everything else. (Ask any VAG owner who has taken advantage of VAGCOM to take away the pesky seatbelt light, DRL's, etc.) I really don't see the Fast and Furious stuff as much as I did even 2 years ago. Maybe it's because I'm younger or just somewhat accustomed to it, but to me it seems like everyone is shying away from that stuff. You're always going to see some car with a body kit, some people just like it. I'm really going to disagree here. The 80's and 90's really didn't give that much that could be easily worked on. Both big flagships from Nissan and Mitsubishi were and still are complete pains in the ass to work on. Having pulled both engines and transmissions from both a TT Z32 and a Stealth RT/TT, I can say neither is very easy at all. -With the Stealth/Vr4's you have insane amounts of vacuum lines, and so much stuff thrown into the bay it's not even funny. I'd say they did a great job with this platform, although every person I've known to own one has had to replace the transmission at one point. -Z32's it's the same deal. As soon as I saw under the hood of a TT Z for the first time my first thought was that it had LESS room than a 4th gen F-Body. I've never heard of many issues with these though.... -Mk3 Supra's, underpowered from the factory, and overloaded. If you were fortunate enough to get a turbo model then it was a little less severe. Head gasket issues plagued these things, along with almost the same HP/Lb ratio of a 454 SS Gm truck of the time. Handling is a joke from the factory. Unless you had the knowledge to either fix the 7M right the first time, or JZ swap it, then you were unfortunately screwed until you did. At least in my experience with mine, it is fairly easy to work on, even with a few aftermarket parts on it, fairly cheap, capable of of making respectable numbers even with the 2J's shadow looming over it, and RWD. Mk4 Supra's- The only true "Supra" in many peoples eyes. Still demand insane prices. One of the best factory built cars IMO of all time. The bottom end has been known of handling 1000+hp stock.. GM Rwd platform- The 3rd gen F-bodys along with the C4 were good for the time, but the LT1/4 shed light on a brighter future, and with the coming of the LSx platform showing in the C5's, GTO's and F-body's, it really set a new bar that was and still is hard to reach. I guess my long winded answer to this is that many people chose these same couple platforms to build on simply because they have been known to make power, and do well with it. Most people want something fun that doesn't really need TOO much work right off the get go to have fun with. No one wants to have to swap a motor to make power, which is why I think those cars were and still are so popular today. It's not like it was back up until the 80's or so when most every car was RWD and came with a variant of a V8. Those may have been the days then but unfortunately they have come and now we must get used to a new spawn of what modding will be about. Not trying to say the old school day's weren't cool at all. If it were possible I would love be alive during the 60's/70's at my age and tinker with some of those toys and see what it was like then. Sucks that I can't because I would honestly prefer it over how things are today (for more reason's than just car's, but for the sake of the thread, I'll leave it at that ) Guess I'll add this in after thinking on this a little more. Back in the day stuff was a little cheaper too. Not just parts but everything. To tune a car all you needed was some know-how and a few simple tools. Now you need a LOT of know-how, a laptop, program to tune with, standalone engine management for some vehicles, wideband, just so much stuff goes into it, mixed with the economy taking a dump, it's hard to really get things like how they used to be I guess. Edited April 2, 2013 by Geeesammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I kind of miss all the ricers 10 years ago with the park bench wings and body kits and altezzas and neon underglow bullshit. They were entertaining, especially when they tried to race you with their 110hp monsters. These days you'll occasionally see Jose driving over on Sullivant with an autozone special Honda, but that's about it. Kids these days seem to have a lot better taste since the Fast & Furious decade. As far as modding cars go, new stuff has a ton of advanced tech, added safety features, added weight, etc. Not a bad thing for a daily, but it certainly limits your options as far as which platforms you should build into a race/track/performance car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Cars are much easier to make faster now than it used to be, for the most part. You are just getting old and when you are old everything used to be better, but in reality everything is just better when you are younger. No more 2JZ Supra? Who cares, we now have the GTR. All of this in just IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBQdDude Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 It still still alive OP, it just has morphed. Things change but the want to personalize and mod the car are still there. 2010 Camaro RWD here. Got a personal tune, CAI, LTH, thermostat.. Starting some suspension mods for the 1/2 mile. Also driving around with a lot of interior parts gone as they are in another state being hydro dipped. I read a lot of threads about swapping this part or that part performance wise. Yes the days of no computer shit are gone, things change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Geeesammy your last paragraph is really getting to the heart of my meaning. You used to be able to toy/tinker/play/tune your car with nothing but a simple mechanics set you could pick up at a hardware store. For the younger generation who's just starting out in life and wants to get ahold of a car they can drive, have fun with, modify at home what do they choose now? Most cars with any decent feel/fun factor start in the what mid 20s now? What kid coming out of high school and getting a job or coming out of college can afford that? And once they do get ahold of it they need to get all the techno wizardry to tune it. Now you're in what another $2000, give or take? Time to do homework and figure out all the ins/outs/options of that software package you just bought. And do your point on the power machines of the 80s and 90s. When you lift the hood on a Z or a 3000 and can barely see the ground don't you love it? Tubes and wires going everywhere, all wheel steering and active suspension? Why in the world would we want that? But its AWESOME that someone somewhere thought hey lets throw some crazy awesome features at this car and make it unique. Have I replaced a tranny in my Stealth? Absolutely. And 2 T-cases. But when I first started getting into modifying it I could do little bits here and little bits there without a check engine light coming on with some random sensor flipping out retarding my timing down to a sputter and making me want to take all the parts back off. Was that thing hella complicated and over engineered? Without a doubt. That's why with the rare exception it went to a shop that actually lived and breathed (you know who you are) those cars. But had I been slightly better at my own work I'm sure I could have ironed out the kinks. To TooSweets point, I miss it too. Were they a joke and hilarious at the time? Totally. I will remember for the rest of my life the night F&F came out and everyone walked out to the parking lot with a puffed out chest and prideful in their ride. After that yes every kid in a Civic would rev at me in my Mustang at EVERY light or throw a honk sequence at me but it was great! Auto parts stores were crawling with people modifying their rides, hanging out in the parking lots to brag and swap stories. Do I agree that modern cars come with more power stock than just about everything we built back then but are they as fun? Do you feel as proud? Do I enjoy driving a project car around that I've spent years building/testing/tuning to get to 300 WHP versus just going out and buying something that beats it? Absolutely. Will I get SMOKED off a light by some woman who bought a car down the street that has 4 doors and gets 35 MPG (or more) highway? Absolutely. Do I care? Not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Sorry to double post, Brian I applaud you and wish you luck in your project. The new cameros are awesome cars, great platforms and can be a ton of fun. Stick with it and I hope it gives you that childish smile on your face a lot of us have felt with street beasts over the years. I'm totally cool with change, no more carbs with black magic? Fine with me. No more tracking 100 vacuum lines to fine one small hole or crack, great! Doing your homework especially in the internet age of today is SO much easier, even compaired to the early 2000s it's a completely different era. Which is both a good and bad thing in my opinion. Kinda miss the days of standing around kicking tires BSing with and learning from those in the area who have built similar projects, or knows a guy who knows a guy who did that. Do I really sound as old on this thread as I feel like I do? Oh and Erik, STFU! /rude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Do I agree that modern cars come with more power stock than just about everything we built back then but are they as fun? Do you feel as proud? Do I enjoy driving a project car around that I've spent years building/testing/tuning to get to 300 WHP versus just going out and buying something that beats it? Absolutely. Will I get SMOKED off a light by some woman who bought a car down the street that has 4 doors and gets 35 MPG (or more) highway? Absolutely. Do I care? Not at all. This. I enjoy modding something myself to make it fast rather than buying something that someone already has modded, or a factory car that is faster. I more enjoy being able to take pride in what I have done rather than what someone else or some engineer has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 This. I enjoy modding something myself to make it fast rather than buying something that someone already has modded, or a factory car that is faster. I more enjoy being able to take pride in what I have done rather than what someone else or some engineer has done. I'd rather mod and improve the new stuff. I never said I would buy a new car and leave it alone. I really enjoy learning what can be done with the new stuff. I've messed with carbs, built old V8s, gone as crazy as my budget allows on LS stuff. I love where stuff was, and love where its going. I have to completely agree about taking pride in what you yourself has done, but I also want to take that further and not make copies of things already done. This is why I love the new stuff, it just opens so many new opportunities. And while I'm rambling, I think the newer stuff is easier to work on. Sure some cars take al lot to get apart, but the computers make them so much more refined. People just don't want to learn, or are lazy, or just too intimidated that they only want to mess with the older stuff because there is so many people who have done it there is just a ton of info out there to know how. So give me a new car and let me beat my head against the wall figuring it out so I can really have something to be proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I'd rather mod and improve the new stuff. I never said I would buy a new car and leave it alone. I really enjoy learning what can be done with the new stuff. I've messed with carbs, built old V8s, gone as crazy as my budget allows on LS stuff. I love where stuff was, and love where its going. I have to completely agree about taking pride in what you yourself has done, but I also want to take that further and not make copies of things already done. This is why I love the new stuff, it just opens so many new opportunities. And while I'm rambling, I think the newer stuff is easier to work on. Sure some cars take al lot to get apart, but the computers make them so much more refined. People just don't want to learn, or are lazy, or just too intimidated that they only want to mess with the older stuff because there is so many people who have done it there is just a ton of info out there to know how. So give me a new car and let me beat my head against the wall figuring it out so I can really have something to be proud of. Lol, I don't mind new stuff, and I completely agree about doing something different than everyone else has. My project has both of those covered (kind of), I'm working on putting a 4g64 in my RX-7. Most people swap them with a lsx which is why I'm not going that route, but it's a motor that can still make decent power, yet still requires some knowledge and planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 While I'll agree there is a lot of potential in some of the new cars, how attainable are they? With wages barely having moved in the last decade for most people and costs of new cars still going up how attainable are they? What does a fully loaded Mustang GT Convert go for these days? I know what I paid for mine, and adjusted for inflation I look like an investment Guru. Taking the kiddies who have parents money to buy them expensive toys how many younger folk can afford one? What's a new SHO go for? How about an SS camero? Sure the ability to look up how to reprogram a car is easy, just plug in my laptop or hell even bluetooth controlling now is available. But does that give you the same sense of accomplishment that getting dirty in the garage used to? There are a TON of new cars I would love to have. The styling is gorgeous, the comfort is fantastic, the fuel economy is a god send, but they just don't FEEL like the raw automobiles they used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I was just having this convo last week I think... DSM, RX-7, Supra, 3000gt, 300zx...those were the days right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I was just having this convo last week I think... DSM, RX-7, Supra, 3000gt, 300zx...those were the days right there. Glad I'm not the only one. Who knows what prompted the car makers to build those crazy things in the first place but we all benefitted from them for certain. Today we have a Horsepower race for sure, with the norm in a lot of cars in the mid to high 300s when just 10-15 years ago the norm was significantly less than that. Want an option from the 90s that had 300 HP+ from the factory how many options did you have? Now you can get it in a 2 door, 4 door, truck, suv, mini-van, motorscooter, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendanB Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Glad I'm not the only one. Who knows what prompted the car makers to build those crazy things in the first place but we all benefitted from them for certain. Today we have a Horsepower race for sure, with the norm in a lot of cars in the mid to high 300s when just 10-15 years ago the norm was significantly less than that. Want an option from the 90s that had 300 HP+ from the factory how many options did you have? Now you can get it in a 2 door, 4 door, truck, suv, mini-van, motorscooter, etc... Motorscooter, LOL. Agreed though, it's getting to power levels where there's more and more nannies to control the car, leaving it less and less in total control of the driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 OP is out of touch with todays cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patterson Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 OP is out of touch with todays cars. I don't think he is at all. There is a certain amount of pleasure that comes from driving a car without "Nannies". I could honestly care less about Zoned Climate Control, LED Head lights, and Heated Seats. Don't get me wrong, those things are all nice, but all that sissiness is for someone the likes of Jones. Honestly I think we are in the latest "Golden Age" right now. It comes in cycles each time Technology leaps forward. There are times when I wish all I had to do was spin a screw driver and watch a Vacuum gauge. On the other hand, tuning with a few snicks with the keyboard is so nice. EFI is a wonderful thing. I think the fact that modern High Power cars are just as temperamental and hard to live with on the street today as they were 20 years ago. Too many people watch You Tube and see how that so-and-so Vette just made 2000 HP, or that GT-R made 1600, even anything 6-800. And think it's easier today than "yesterday". Try driving it. You'll stab yourself in the Neck. It's just as lousy as and "Old Technology" car was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Try driving it. You'll stab yourself in the Neck. It's just as lousy as and "Old Technology" car was. Going to have to disagree here wildly. Stock GT-R = 10.xx Way easier to drive than any stock 10 second car from the 90's, Oh wait, there were none. :gabe: Not to mention the climate control & heated seats you can enjoy while on the way down the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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