Golden Age of Modding...will it ever come again?

[99StockGT]

I'll keep that in mind for when I'm not working on a Saturday morning. Tell you what, I'll do you one better and get you a free Coney if you bring the "Super Beetle" to the carshow

[Mr. Jones]

I'll keep that in mind for when I'm not working on a Saturday morning. Tell you what, I'll do you one better and get you a free Coney if you bring the "Super Beetle" to the carshow

 

 

14th = Autocross day. Cars should be driven, not parked and stared out!

:fuckyeah:

[99StockGT]

Blasted! Thought it was on the 13th. Ah well, I'll give you a rain check on the Coney. Maybe I'll actually make C&C that week! Or I could set you up a little course in our parking lot and you could put on a class. Hopefully it doesn't rain all weekend, I'll refer you back to my naked dancing to commune with the rain gods.

 

For a more on topic post, from the younger crowd...what do YOU all see as the next car(s) that will become project cars? Is it the route of plug in and tune? Will we ever see the return of Streetglow lights and and carbon fiber well...everything? Custom wheels on any/everything and all night cruises?

[Forrest Gump 9]

I haven't read all this thread, but right now is the golden age for tuning cars. When can you buy v6 TT, v8 TT, or even v12 TT, but now. Some of them even come with awd and transmissions that are so smart that they'll cook your diner on the drive home.

[thorne]

If optioned without TCS, they can be. (Relatively) big V8, RWD, manual, mid-front engine and a live axle rear end makes it one hell of a fun chassis. Not the most ideal on autocross courses or tracks without proper suspension work, but with just some chassis stiffening, better springs, tires, and brakes, they are definitely fun in the corners as well as on straights.

 

Go drive one of the following then try posting that.

 

 

Cayman S

BMW M3

BMW 135i (with M Package)

MB E55

Audi RS4

Infinity G37 Coupe

 

 

Those are drivers cars

[Aaron]

I'll just leave this here. Its just that easy now, folks.

 

[thorne]

A few of us Tuners were talking about this recently that the field of Car tuning could be gone in the next 10-15 years

[Mr. Jones]

I'll just leave this here. Its just that easy now, folks.

 

 

 

 

One is 50K one is close to 100k.:gabe:

[Farkas]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/04/generation-why-demographics-and-the-insanity-of-japans-golden-bubble/#more-481838

 

For anyone like myself – that is, a car fan who grew up in the 1990s and watched Japan’s sports cars disappear from the American market in one sudden swoop, news that Japan’s once mighty auto industry is being “hollowed out” might come as a shock. The cars that defined my youth – the RX-7s, Supras even the VTEC Honda compacts, are a distant memory. Most of what Japan offers on our shores are aimed at the mainstream, while at home, kei-cars and hybrids dominate the market.

 

A lot of the criticism leveled at Japan is that their focus on the mainstream market and alternative powertrains is what sparked their auto industry’s current malaise. But this is a superficial and fallacious assumption that supposes that the glut of superb Japanese cars in the 1990s is a baseline for our expectations of what a Japanese auto maker should be building and selling. In fact, it is an aberration that will never occur again.

 

 

Japan, early 1990s. It is a boom unlike even the MBS-fueled manic episode that tinted the last days of my adolescence. Everything is expensive, but who cares, because everyone is rich! Contrary to what Detroit tells you, the reason nobody in Japan buys foreign cars is because of conformity. There is a famous phrase in Japanese business culture; “the nail that sticks up, gets hammered down”. You, the salaryman with cash to burn, will support the home team. You will buy one of these fabulous cars created by our all-conquering auto industry, and you will replace it every few years due to the shakken inspection system and because it is uncouth to drive an old, used car.

 

If 1950s American cars are a reflection of the optimism and prosperity of that era, then let’s look was offered by a country that saw its stock market plunge by trillions of dollars. Gullwinged-Mazda kei cars. Honda Legends with four-figure gyroscopic navigation systems. 1.6L V6s engines in D-Segment Mitsubishis. Why? Because they could. It was pure, unabashed hubris that led auto makers to field umpteen variations of the same mid-size car or open different sales channels for each model, like the Honda Accord, which begot the Honda Vigor, Inspire, Ascot, Innova, Rafaga, Saber and Torneo. All of them were only slightly different from one another but they were sold across three separate sales channels dubbed Primo, Clio and Verno. It was a scenario that made General Motors pre-bankruptcy sales strategy look lean by comparison.

 

The competitive nature of the Japanese auto industry and the “gentlemens agreement” limiting cars to 276 horsepower meant that an arms race of technology was being waged. R&D budgets were limitless. No technology was too complex or too expensive to implement on any given product. Twin turbo rotary engines at Mazda, four-wheel steering and all-wheel drive at Nissan, active aerodynamics at Mitsubishi, and of course, the all-aluminum, F1-inspired NSX at Honda. Even at the lower end, there were countless high-performance variants of the lowliest econoboxes: Type-Rs and Spec-Rs and Cyborg Rs and 9000 RPM, 1600cc VZ-Rs and BZ-R’s (not to be confused with our current, boxer-blighted BRZs) which were Corollas with 5 valves per cylinder and individual throttle bodies. That was technology that Ferrari never even saw until long after the BZ-R was introduced.

 

It was utter insanity, but Japan was in a unique position to support these offerings. Aside from its economic growth, its demographic picture meant that those born just after WWII, when birth rates were still high, were hitting their earnings peak. And since everyone was flush with money, they could afford to buy these cars.

 

When the bottom fell out of the economy, the cars mentioned above were already too far along in the development cycle to be canceled. The OEMs had no choice but to release them after sinking so much money into their development. And while the higher end product was pulled from our market, they soldiered on in Japan. With no foreign competition, there wasn’t much to lose. Everything was so advanced and over-engineered that they still felt – and in some cases, even looked – fresh and modern despite being a decade old.

 

Now fast forward to 2013. Nearly a quarter of the population is over 65, and Japan’s population growth is negative. The bulk of consumers are likely buying their last car, and young people are famously not interested in the automobile. Now that there is no domestic consumer base, the product development ethos has irrevocably changed. What were once solutions to local problems and tastes must now be targeted at a global audience, with all of the peculiarities and regulatory demands and business cases that come with it.

 

Instead of the three-rotor Mazda Cosmo or the gorgeous Nissan Silvia, we have the Toyota 86, a car that was apparently so risky that a corporate behemoth like Toyota had to partner with a relative bit player like Subaru just to bring it to production. The one upshot in the economics of the current economics of the auto industry is that to maximize the ROI for this car, there will inevitably be more variants. Definitely a convertible. Maybe a sedan. Just maybe, if we’re lucky, a shooting brake.

 

It is fashionable nowadays in the automotive press to stake out a position that brands oneself as the vanguard of automotive enthusiasm, defender of all that has “soul” and “character”, while admonishing the manufacturers for offering bland pablum instead of the exciting enthusiast machines that once existed. Ultimately these are just the ignorant ramblings of those who are unable or unwilling to understand the external forces that shape cars; macroeconomics, government regulations, demographics, geography, trade policies. The auto industry is not a charity that produces widgets for driving enthusiasts. It is a business like anything else, and its output is directly related to the input.

 

Meanwhile, you can go to the dealer and buy an MX-5 that has barely risen in price, when taking inflation into account, since being introduced nearly 25 years ago. You can still buy an honest-to-god Made In Japan European-market Accord, or a sublime rally-derived Mitsubishi. You can finally buy a new Z car or a GT-R, two products we clamored for in the late 1990s. Now they’re here, along with the WRX , a product that we also cried out for not too long ago. Are things really that dire? Or are we so dissatisfied with our present that the only escape is to romanticize an era that should have never been?

 

[Mr. Jones]

Had a 1990 Infiniti Q45 for a while, and was very impressed.

Ever year after that, they got softer and less edgy.

[99StockGT]

Awesome post Farkas! +10!

[SpaceGhost]

Oh Japanese supercars we're are on the topic of?

 

I'll leave this right here:

http://www.automoblog.net/2013/03/31/the-mkv-supra-is-finally-here/

 

Make way for the 3JZ, Move over GT-R

[BrendanB]

Oh Japanese supercars we're are on the topic of?

 

I'll leave this right here:

http://www.automoblog.net/2013/03/31/the-mkv-supra-is-finally-here/

 

Make way for the 3JZ, Move over GT-R

 

So glad they scrapped the full on hybrid idea, the alternate electric mode/motor is definitely a cool "optional" feature for highway use. Cool to see they're keeping with an inline 6 as well, seems no one makes inline 6's anymore, everyone's changed to V configuration engines

[SpaceGhost]

All the Fr-S/BRZ buyers that were made fun of are now responsible for bringing the Supra back. Thank them.

[Tripleskate]

So glad they scrapped the full on hybrid idea, the alternate electric mode/motor is definitely a cool "optional" feature for highway use. Cool to see they're keeping with an inline 6 as well, seems no one makes inline 6's anymore, everyone's changed to V configuration engines

There's a certain brand whose very image is built off of their inline sixes. Not sure if serious.

[BrendanB]

There's a certain brand whose very image is built off of their inline sixes. Not sure if serious.

 

:gabe: I should edit that to no Japanese companies, lol

[99StockGT]

Aaron while I did enjoy the video, I think it actually plays a good example of what I'm talking about. Which is more satisying? As the video host says, Intake, Exhaust, Cams, etc to squeeze out more power or ... plug thing in, turn key, wait for beeps, oh look I'm faster. Just doesn't seem like the same sense of accomplishment. At least, IMHO.

 

BMW has started loading Turbos on all sorts of things which is definitely exciting. My E36 was a wonderful car and a blast to drive, but a little wooshy wooshy noise would have made it even more boyishly fun. Are the 335s one of the next highly tuned mosters?

[KennyFKINPowerz]

Just wondering how many people in this thread actually work on their own cars -vs- paying someone to do it for them. I think actually turning the wrenches yourself makes a persons perspective a bit different.

[Draco-REX]

A little late to the party here, forgive me if I cover something already said:

 

I think we're in a golden age of tuning now. The thing about "Golden Ages" is that they never look that way from the inside.

 

The import scene is booming. I can lay down cash and get shortblocks, longblocks, forged internals, better heads, cams, intakes, exhausts, turbos, etc. for my cars. I can replace the suspension with billet and tubular control arms. The interior can go from stock to sport to track day to full-on race. Cages? No problem.

 

Really, consider this: Toyota and Subaru KNEW that the success of the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 depended on the aftermarket. They knew it would fly or die based on how the modding scene received it. To ensure it would be a winner they let the aftermarket tuning companies have pre-production cars months before they were even taking orders. Toyobaru made sure the aftermarket was up to speed the moment the car hit dealer lots.

 

Things have changed, but the shadetree can still do all his work at home. Granted, there are a few more wires to keep track of, but the essentials have not changed. The holy trinity of Fuel, Air, and Spark is still making these engines run. More power comes the same way. But instead of fiddling with a carb, you fiddle with a computer. But even ECU tuning has it's limits, just like a carb. You still need to deliver more fuel if you pump in more air. You still need to open the valves wider, smooth out the exhaust, open the intake, etc. It's all there, just a little bit different.

 

The ECU can also make it easier to mod. You can hook up a computer, start logging, do some quick runs, then come back and see what the changes you made did without having to resort to a "butt-dyno". And for a lot of cars, this can be done for not much $$.

 

The biggest thing about modding today is the Internet. Shadetrees now have access to information and advice from the entire world. Can't figure out why it's running rough? Someone probably had the same issue and knows the solution. How much power is this mod likely to make? Someone's been there, done that, and made a post about it.

 

The automotive world is our oyster. It just takes different tools and a slightly different approach than in the past to get that pearl.

 

As for the future? Electric cars will be the death of tuning as we know it, but not the death of tuning. Look at the electric RC hobby. It'll be like that, but on a larger scale. Re-winding motors, balancing voltage with amperage, improving the driveline, programming for optimal grip, etc. A 400hp AWD Electric Lotus Elise is a possibility *today*; what will the future bring?

 

The only thing that will kill performance modding is cars that cannot be manually driven. But we're a long way from that, and I don't think manually driven cars will ever be outlawed outside of cities.

 

Modding is different today, but far from dead.

[Draco-REX]

Just wondering how many people in this thread actually work on their own cars -vs- paying someone to do it for them. I think actually turning the wrenches yourself makes a persons perspective a bit different.

 

I do everything myself or with a buddy that doesn't require a lift or messing with timing. I lack the first and don't trust myself with the second.

[wnaplay1647545503]

I had a similar epiphany as the op years ago. Cars almost became whoever had the most money could easily be the fastest so why really bother. I enjoyed cars alot more when I didnt have the financial means to just buy something fast or even afford to build something fast like I probably could at this point. I far more enjoy older cars and tinkering with them. At least with older cars your almost always guaranteed to not have the same thing as everyone else at a meet.

[Tripleskate]

BMW has started loading Turbos on all sorts of things which is definitely exciting. My E36 was a wonderful car and a blast to drive, but a little wooshy wooshy noise would have made it even more boyishly fun. Are the 335s one of the next highly tuned mosters?

Yes. The N54 tt motor is very under-taxed in stock form at about 6-8psi peak boost depending on air density, etc. Hotrod182 is holding the record for fastest on stock turbos with an 11.1@129.x

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-335i-Timeslip-23471.html

 

Stock v. Piggyback tune on 91oct:

 

http://burgertuning.com/images/dyno2.jpg

[Draco-REX]

I had a similar epiphany as the op years ago. Cars almost became whoever had the most money could easily be the fastest so why really bother. I enjoyed cars alot more when I didnt have the financial means to just buy something fast or even afford to build something fast like I probably could at this point. I far more enjoy older cars and tinkering with them. At least with older cars your almost always guaranteed to not have the same thing as everyone else at a meet.

 

"Cubic Dollars" has always held an edge in performance.

[Cordell]

A little late to the party here, forgive me if I cover something already said:

 

I think we're in a golden age of tuning now. The thing about "Golden Ages" is that they never look that way from the inside.

 

The import scene is booming. I can lay down cash and get shortblocks, longblocks, forged internals, better heads, cams, intakes, exhausts, turbos, etc. for my cars. I can replace the suspension with billet and tubular control arms. The interior can go from stock to sport to track day to full-on race. Cages? No problem.

 

Really, consider this: Toyota and Subaru KNEW that the success of the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 depended on the aftermarket. They knew it would fly or die based on how the modding scene received it. To ensure it would be a winner they let the aftermarket tuning companies have pre-production cars months before they were even taking orders. Toyobaru made sure the aftermarket was up to speed the moment the car hit dealer lots.

 

Things have changed, but the shadetree can still do all his work at home. Granted, there are a few more wires to keep track of, but the essentials have not changed. The holy trinity of Fuel, Air, and Spark is still making these engines run. More power comes the same way. But instead of fiddling with a carb, you fiddle with a computer. But even ECU tuning has it's limits, just like a carb. You still need to deliver more fuel if you pump in more air. You still need to open the valves wider, smooth out the exhaust, open the intake, etc. It's all there, just a little bit different.

 

The ECU can also make it easier to mod. You can hook up a computer, start logging, do some quick runs, then come back and see what the changes you made did without having to resort to a "butt-dyno". And for a lot of cars, this can be done for not much $$.

 

The biggest thing about modding today is the Internet. Shadetrees now have access to information and advice from the entire world. Can't figure out why it's running rough? Someone probably had the same issue and knows the solution. How much power is this mod likely to make? Someone's been there, done that, and made a post about it.

 

The automotive world is our oyster. It just takes different tools and a slightly different approach than in the past to get that pearl.

 

As for the future? Electric cars will be the death of tuning as we know it, but not the death of tuning. Look at the electric RC hobby. It'll be like that, but on a larger scale. Re-winding motors, balancing voltage with amperage, improving the driveline, programming for optimal grip, etc. A 400hp AWD Electric Lotus Elise is a possibility *today*; what will the future bring?

 

The only thing that will kill performance modding is cars that cannot be manually driven. But we're a long way from that, and I don't think manually driven cars will ever be outlawed outside of cities.

 

Modding is different today, but far from dead.

 

QFT!

 

Wish I could've made my thoughts so clear.

[99StockGT]

I was wondering when you would wake up and pay attention to this thread Draco, I even mentioned the BRZ in an early post to make your ears burn. While yes I agree there are a lot of reasons things are easier now due to the ability to just "Google it" and with plug and play tuning it just seems to have taken some of the...dare I call it ART out of everything?

 

I'm as guilty as the next guy, I'm on forums for just about every car I own to be able to help me trouble shoot issues or gleen knowledge from people before me. Previously that was either done at a car show (April 14th), parking lot where we stood around compairing and telling tall tales, or from trial and error in the garage. The first car I ever modified basically pre-internet-as-we-know-it I happened to have a very knowledgable friend who almost held court for local car guys.

 

Do we still get that feeling on Forums and Blogs? Do you still get that sense of awe when you see someone roll in driving an S4 that has no replaced equipment just a patched piece of software for their computer systems as you do from someone rolling up in a crazy modded early 90s machine with shiny pipes and turbos, custom mounted IC solution, and obvious TLC under the hood? I don't.

 

It's also I think a bit of a generational issue. Are the up and coming still as interested as we were in customization and personality? I'm not THAT eld that I feel like I'm ready to say "When I was young" but, it kinda feels like that is missing...maybe thats just me.