Ramsey Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 My cousin is looking at wranglers. Hopefully under 16k with less than 70k miles. He is not a "car-guy" but wants to throw some big tires on it and lift it a few inches. I assume the 4 cyl. is a dog sled and wouldnt like 33s/35s. I know ive heard the 4l is bullet proof so is that the only real option or is the new v6 worth a shit? Also, is the auto just a waste in one of these things? I imagine this will get some offroad use, he works with a couple guys that really get after it and they go all the time. What to look for? tia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 4cyl. are the suck. Radiators, pinion seals are trouble spots. Both mine need replacing. Just for reference, my 02 6cyl. Manual with 98k miles and with 31" tires, lift, fender flares and upgraded stereo cost 10k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I drove an '03 with the 2.4L 4cyl...OH MY [/takei] I've owned/driven some beaters in my day, but a 4cyl Jeep is downright unsafe at stock ride height running 235/75/15s...slow is an understatement. Trucks/crosswind abuse it and the lack of power is unnerving. Makes cents if you've got it in South Florida where you never get above 60mph on surface roads. If he's looking to pay $16k, could he afford $22k? The 283hp Pentastar Wranglers are way better (if you have to get married to a Wrangler). I drove a Rubicon and it was actually a fun ride. Wouldn't want to pay the gas bill every week... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/07/capsule-review-2014-jeep-wrangler-sport-s/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 4cyl. are the suck. Radiators, pinion seals are trouble spots. Both mine need replacing. Just for reference, my 02 6cyl. Manual with 98k miles and with 31" tires, lift, fender flares and upgraded stereo cost 10k thanks I drove an '03 with the 2.4L 4cyl...OH MY [/takei] I've owned/driven some beaters in my day, but a 4cyl Jeep is downright unsafe at stock ride height running 235/75/15s...slow is an understatement. Trucks/crosswind abuse it and the lack of power is unnerving. Makes cents if you've got it in South Florida where you never get above 60mph on surface roads. If he's looking to pay $16k, could he afford $22k? The 283hp Pentastar Wranglers are way better (if you have to get married to a Wrangler). I drove a Rubicon and it was actually a fun ride. Wouldn't want to pay the gas bill every week... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/07/capsule-review-2014-jeep-wrangler-sport-s/ really trying to keep his payments down. are the 3.8v6 worth a shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 the 4 cylinders are dogs just about anywhere. the 4.11 gears they come with stock make them highway safe but as soon as a lift goes on forget it. I shouldn't even have to tell you why a 4 cylinder automatic is a bad idea (yes they made them from 94-06 so in YJ and TJ models). My experience with non-car guys who buy jeeps is they probably have no business buying a jeep. I don't mean to be harsh but most jeep ownership requires you to make sacrifices beyond what is the standard in most cars today. First question is can he live without A/C and power windows? most can't. Let's just leave out YJ wranglers (1987-1995) out of the conversation. Generally regarded as the orphan and now regarded as the last "true" old school jeep with parts interchangeability going back to the CJ series. They are too old, too hard to get quality parts for, and have all the quality of a chrysler product built in the 90's. how do I know? I have owned one for 20 years. They are becoming collectors items now and it's not hard to find one someone spent $30K on doing every mod possible to it selling for less than half that because...depreciation. TJs (1997-2006) are good solid jeeps and don't require as many sacrifices as an old CJ or YJ. Generally the truck is all around more user friendly (esp the soft top which was a notorious and needlessly complicated tent erection in the past), is likely to come with A/c, and you can actually use your phone while driving and hear the conversation. They are all powered by the 4.0L inline 6 that has powered the wrangler since 1991 and is generally bulletproof. Early ones still come with ax15 manual transmissions, but they switched to NV3550s first in the Rubicon in 2000 and then all models later on. They eventually went to a 6 speed manual in 2005 and 2006 (and continue to use it in the new JK wranglers). Because the TJ has coil spring it's ride is less harsh than it's predecessor, but don't be fooled because of the short wheelbase every wrangler is like riding a pogo stick to work the difference is just how fast that pogo stick is bouncing. LJ - This is the informal name for the TJ long wheelbase they made from 2004 to 2006 under the unlimited name. These do not have the short wheelbase jouncyness of the small wranglers and I would liken them to open top 2 door XJ cherokees than actual wranglers in both usefulness and ride quality. Still powered by the inline six but because of the long wheelbase requires special and slightly more expensive lift parts. These are oddly enough the most sought after of the 4.0 inline powered six cylinders and a rubicon version one (if he can find it) would still be out of his price range but X, Sahara, or S models might be within his price range. JK - I am not fond of these. The JK unlimited though really usefull everyday weighs as much as a 1999 suburban but is powered by a dodge v-6 that makes marginally more hp than the old inline 6 without near the torque delivery (230hp vs 210 for the last iteration of the inline 4.0). even the "little" 2 door is 4000lbs (for reference the stock weight on my 1995 YJ is 3050lbs wet with hardtop and doors) The pentastar 3.6L v-6 that makes 300hp is a vast improvement for these trucks but you are talking about a 2011 and up which means probably out of his price range. Also from what I have seen lift kits for these trucks are not cheap. A lot of jeep selection depends on what he plans to use it for. If he actually plans to go off road someone's expensive YJ trail rig isn't bad but they are hell to live with for everyday driving. TJs are more than capable of road too but for the kind of money/condition he is probably looking for he isn't looking at rusty TJs he can bash into trees with on the weekends. If he literally wants a penis extending puddle cruiser (why else would someone build a lifted jeep and not take it offroad), a TJ or a JK is his best bet, esp if it is an Unlimited for the cush ride. hopefully he has lots of money for gas because jeeps aren't what I would call fuel efficient. If he has to have the big tires he should look for one with the lift already done and money spent on the good parts. People tend to forget that although the lift is kinda cheap in parts - labor isn't. Also tires alone in 33" and 35" sizes can be $200-250 per tire to start (BFG All Terrains in the 30x9.5 size on my YJ are $150 a tire). by the time you are done with the lift, the skid plate kit, the slip yoke eliminator, the custom wheels, fender flares, the tires, the sway bar disconnects, gear ratios, the high lift jack, and the stupid stuff everybody buys but nobody uses like a winch and LED light bar it's easy to have spent $5k-6K. Meanwhile as Big Oxley has said you can buy someone else's jeep for $10K already lifted with tires. Try to get him into a stock 2002-2006 rubicon if you can. the dana 44 axles are worth the price of admission. Then have him drive it stock for a year and see if he really feels like he needs a lift after that. If he never goes off road then he won't, plus Rubicons are scarce enough that he will still feel special as jeep people will still approach him in parking lots to talk about his sweet jeep (and usually ask to sell). I never lifted my yj because I never needed to, and that truck has been down some real trails in penn and upstate ny. The only place I ever really got stuck was on soft sand on the beach. And that is just about everything I know about jeeps. Final note: Friends don't let friends drive autotragic wranglers. they only build them so girls whose dad's didn't love them enough to teach them to drive manual can drive them. honestly though I have noticed a lot more guys preferring automatics for their trail rigs so it isn't the worst thing in the world if he really wants an auto, but a automatic wrangler really removes the one fun quotient that comes from driving a wrangler daily, unless he is one of those guys that looks at a manual trans as a burden - then he really isn't a car guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 really trying to keep his payments down. are the 3.8v6 worth a shit? I drove a '12 and a '13 back-to-back, 210hp 3.8L vs the 283hp 3.6L: The Pentastar 3.6 perks every part of driving a Jeep up in a major way. Not saying the 3.8 is a bad mill, but if I'm financing $16k+ I'd rather keep my money than buy an older one. From a value standpoint, he's better getting the newest and lowest-mile Jeep he can afford. Amazes me that 10-year old '04 Wranglers with well over 100k are still selling at $teens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm saying the 3.8L is a bad mill. It was a v6 designed for Chrysler's FWD passenger cars and minivans so they didn't have to buy the 3.0L from Mitsubishi. Is it reliable? sure. does it have any business pushing a 4000-5000lb wrangler off road? nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRed Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 3.8L is an ok engine but they to tend to have a lot of oil consumption issues. If you are going the JK route, try to find a '12 model with the 3.6L. Engine seems to be pretty good so far. That is what is in my '13 JK. IMO if you are buying a vehicle to just take off road, don't spent $16K on a newer model Jeep. Just get something cheap and keep throwing parts at it to build it up. Personally I would go get a cheap Cherokee, small lift and a sawzall and you can fit those 33-35" tires and do almost everything a Wrangler can do off road for A LOT less than $16K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 3.8L is an ok engine but they to tend to have a lot of oil consumption issues. If you are going the JK route, try to find a '12 model with the 3.6L. Engine seems to be pretty good so far. That is what is in my '13 JK. IMO if you are buying a vehicle to just take off road, don't spent $16K on a newer model Jeep. Just get something cheap and keep throwing parts at it to build it up. Personally I would go get a cheap Cherokee, small lift and a sawzall and you can fit those 33-35" tires and do almost everything a Wrangler can do off road for A LOT less than $16K It will be daily driven, and if i had to guess a few weekend warrior trips in the dirt per year. Looking closer to 04-05 ish for around 13-14 sub 80k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 '12 jk's had head problems, go for 13's but that's out of the budget i believe. IMHO, most I know that are jeep fans admit the JK's v6 is WAY better than the older models, even with their head issues. Some prefer the auto for off roading so they don't have the extra pedal, to me I prefer rowing so I got the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think for his budget, an 05-06 would not be too hard to come by with a manual I-6. My boss has an 06 Golden Eagle edition with around that mileage and book value has it around that price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm not sure how true it is, but TJ forum folks were saying that the 6spd manual in the 05-06 years are "weaker" than the previous year 5spd manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 The say the same thing about the nv3500 being weaker than the ax15, and back when the ax15 was the only option they used to complain you needed an nv4500 for serious abuse. If there is one consistency among jeep people it's that they are always bitching that shit ain't as good as it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourString Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Geeto67, well put. I have owned several Jeeps and my YJ was by far my favorite. It was raw, terribly unreliable, no creature comforts, but I loved it. I want to go to a CJ next, but I have a feeling that I will end up with another YJ instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 YJ :ninja: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourString Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Side note: I got to the point where I could pull my Jeep into the garage, pull the AX5 out, and have it sitting on a work bench completely disassembled before the engine was done cooling off. I miss that pile of shit. I have never loved and hated a vehicle so much as that one. I would buy it back in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRD2BDF Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I would buy a 3.8 one. Its a Jeep, it isn't supposed to be fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I would buy a 3.8 one. Its a Jeep, it isn't supposed to be fast. One of my customers was about to buy a 2011 Jeep (from our Jeep dealer) when a tech walked up to him and said "Ed, you're going to have to fight me if you want to buy that 3.8 piece of shit. Buy one with the Pentastar" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I would buy a 3.8 one. Its a Jeep, it isn't supposed to be fast. No jeep is really "fast" but almost all are "torque-y". I say almost all because a 3.8L making 215hp that was originally designed to tow a dodge stratus behind it can never and will never be torquey. Its more about looking at a brick wall and thinking "yeah I can climb that" every time you let off the clutch pedal in first. A 3.8 pushing a 5000lbs unlimited? I wouldn't trust it to climb a beanbag chair. It just isn't the same kind of slow that one finds fun in driving a BMW e30 318i, its the kind of slow one gets when the find out the rental car agency stuck them with the base model Chrysler Pacifica. Traditionally wranglers are light, fun raw vehicles, and when you remove two of those items (light, raw) you better make up for it with something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 IIRC, Some reviewers have gotten base model 2-door with a manual Pentastar to do a 6.5 0-60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Aside from my concerns about the head issues, I love my pentastar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 thanks for all of the input. we have narrowed the search to tj rubicons, found some with basic mods well in range. I would imagine working with jeep/offroad guys he will get into the lifestyle. He is a 6'5" construction worker driving a neon now(hence why i said he is not a car guy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Brian Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 My buddy bought a brand new Wrangler with a stick a few years ago, and shortly traded it back for an automatic.. and I completely understand why. First gear winds out at like 10mph screaming like a banshee, and 2nd to like 30mph, etc. It was miserable to drive around town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 He is a 6'5" construction worker) Makes sure he sits in one before he commits it the idea. I'm 6'5" and another reason I hated the JK was that on 2007 models I hit my shins on the bottom of the dash, though I drove a 2013 model two months ago and didn't have that issue. It's been over a year since I drove a TJ and I remember certain years feeling more cramped than others due to console and dash design. I believe they changed the seats and some of the dash and interior trim around 2002 and that helps makes it feel a little more roomy, but a wrangler has never been anything but cramped with the doors on. Make sure he gets one with a hardtop or both tops and full hard doors. These are expensive items to buy later on (TJ full doors can be a $1000 a set) and worth it in the winter. I have both full and half doors as well as dual tops for mine and it makes the thing so much more adaptable. A nice trick I learned was that some year Harley Davidson mirrors have a shaft that perfectly fits in the door hinge for when you remove the doors. They are DOT legal in case you get stopped, and because they are stock most HD shops have a pile of them sitting in the corner collecting dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tshensley Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 2008 Jeep Wrangler X 3.8 6spd 46k miles $18,900 http://www.tomahl.com/used/Jeep/2008-Jeep-Wrangler-Lima-f16ce8e50a0a00e026178f03af7be12f.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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