Columbus Light rail System

[Orion]

As someone who regularly visits New York City, Queensarea, ( my sister lives in queens/works at the Met), I can promise you that a real system in Columbus is nothing that would be useful compared to what it is in New York. it's also like comparing apples to oranges. This is just not the thriving metropolis the other major cities in the country are.

 

Park-and-ride bus systems I can see that being useful in Columbus but I don't see a rail system is being remotely useful here

 

You see a light rail system as an effect of a bustling metropolis, I see it as a cause. I.E., "If you build it, they will come", as opposed to "If they come, you should build it."

[Dr. Pomade]

You see a light rail system as an effect of a bustling metropolis, I see it as a cause. I.E., "If you build it, they will come", as opposed to "If they come, you should build it."

 

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I present to you Exhibit A: a person that gets it."

[Trouble Maker]

You see a light rail system as an effect of a bustling metropolis, I see it as a cause. I.E., "If you build it, they will come", as opposed to "If they come, you should build it."

 

I would normally agree with you, but the thing is, Columbus is getting an influx of young people and lots of infill development is happening. Hopefully it's the push to get serious about mass transit in our city. But at some point, before they really settle down here, they are going to either need a real mass transit system here or move to somewhere that has one.

 

Something to think about for the naysayers; mass transit, the ability to walk, or bike everywhere doesn't preclude you driving everywhere. In fact good city planning allows for all options to be viable options. Maybe you agree with me, maybe you don't. But this doesn't have to be an us against them. Other options being usable options doesn't mean that cars have to be banished.

[TTQ B4U]

Columbus is STUPID EASY to access by driving/bus. This isn't Minneapolis; there's never going to be a light rail running around 270.

 

Exactly. Chicago, San Francisco, DC, NYC, yes, Columbus, waste of fucking money. Coleman is a worthless ass like Obama and neither should have been elected. :doh:

[Dr. Pomade]

Exactly. Chicago, San Francisco, DC, NYC, yes, Columbus, waste of fucking money. Coleman is a worthless ass like Obama and neither should have been elected. :doh:

 

Coleman is great in that he actually cares about promoting Columbus. It sounds like you don't like to promote Columbus. Or you're a racist. Either is a legitimate reason to invite you to bathe with a toaster.

 

I'll await your 16 paragraph response ranting about democrats, liberals, African Americans, immigration policy, paleo dieting, and metrosexuality.

[Nate1647545505]

Coleman is great in that he actually cares about promoting Columbus. It sounds like you don't like to promote Columbus. Or you're a racist. Either is a legitimate reason to invite you to bathe with a toaster.

 

I'll await your 16 paragraph response ranting about democrats, liberals, African Americans, immigration policy, paleo dieting, and metrosexuality.

 

slow golf clap.gif

[El Karacho1647545492]

Has no one considered that the money used to pay for a light rail could, in the long run, be offset by fewer cars tearing up the roads, fewer uninsured drivers causing accidents that raise your insurance premiums, decrease the demand and thus the price for gas, create temporary jobs for construction and long-term jobs when companies find it easier to locate themselves in lower-cost out-of-central-Columbus real estate, thus creating more demand for properties outside of the central area and raising values in a greater area?

 

Columbus is already seen by many corporations as a boom town with a highly intelligent and employable work force, a local economy that did much better through the recession than many others, and a center of culture and arts. A well-designed and efficient mass transit system (COTA is neither) would make it infinitely easier for these corporations to relocate and attract a new generation of intelligent, employed taxpayers to the area. Young workers buy cars at a much lower rate than previous generations, why not welcome that attitude with a solution rather than just refuse to change the fact that Columbus is a city that requires you to drive everywhere?

 

Unlike San Francisco, unlike Chicago, unlike Boston, NYC, DC, or any other major metropolis, Columbus is unrestricted by geography. Why not use this unique resource as an opportunity that could cement Columbus as a major metropolis in the future?

[Orion]

Exactly. Chicago, San Francisco, DC, NYC, yes, Columbus, waste of fucking money. Coleman is a worthless ass like Obama and neither should have been elected. :doh:

 

And yet he is now serving in his FOURTH term as mayor of probably the best city in the State of Ohio, and outside of Chicago, what may be the best city in the Midwest (yeah, I said that shit).

 

I'm with Jesse, I'm not going to stop tolling around in my "Das Auto" just because I can hop on the monorail. But, again, as Jesse mentioned, that doesn't preclude a city from developing options. C-bus is already and incredibly bike friendly town, and serious efforts have been made downtown to increase the amount of things one can walk to and from. Cost of living in Columbus is low, but incomes are moderate...how much more would that be positively increased if one could live in columbus without the NEED to actually own a car? (I mean a reasonable, rational person, not some crazy hippy tree hugger extremist)

 

The idea that one could trade a car payment, an insurance payment, and fuel costs for taxes is not necessarily a bad one, no? Especially if its done right.

 

EDIT: I now have a man crush on Alex.

[Green Bastard]

I don't think it is a terrible idea with OSU being one of the larger schools in the nation, I think it would help clear up some of the congestion in the streets from campus to downtown. That said, I would still drive, I enjoy driving too much. Also, I think it would take more than a rail system to attract more businesses, bit it is a step in the right direction.

[TTQ B4U]

Coleman is great in that he actually cares about promoting Columbus.

 

I'll await your 16 paragraph response ranting about democrats, liberals, African Americans, immigration policy.

 

Keep waiting...I stand by my opinion that he's a dick-head dumb fuck who enjoys spending taxpayer money....and yeah, his view on immigration and Somalian support is far from what I want. But hey, like Obama, the guy is a great speaker. Most any elected official will promote their city. He doesn't get credit for that in my book. His big business friends love the low wage immigrants though. Kudos for making them happy. The McConnells, Wolfes, Pizzutis and Cranes love him too. I wonder why

Edited November 22, 2014 by TTQ B4U

[copperhead]

Live there, get away from crime and drug infested neighborhoods, have the opportunity to earn a better life for themselves and their offspring. Maybe bring lower-cost labor. Hell, maybe their non-entitled kids will even show up at schools where teachers are paid a fair salary and actually TRY to learn and earn their way into a college education, instead of sitting back like Johnny and Sally Jones and simply expecting As and Bs and a legacy admission to Miami University.

 

You know, just the American dream. But what would I, the son of a broke 15 year old Portuguese immigrant (when he arrived in 1974) who worked to be valedictorian of his high school, undergrad, and MBA classes and then went on to be CIO of Nationwide, know about providing opportunities to those less fortunate?

 

Can't afford a car, but can afford a $300,000+ house, got it.

[KillJoy]

I'm a far bigger backer of the cleveland/cols/cinci/indy/chicago plan.

 

I came to post EXACTLY this!

 

:thumbup:

 

KillJoy

[copperhead]

By and large this project would be paid for by Columbus residents. These people already have average incomes below state average:

 

http://www.city-data.com/income/income-Columbus-Ohio.html

 

It was a short year ago that they voted down adding another branch of the Columbus Zoo in the down town area, that was billed as a way to bring in additional revenue. The reason being that they are all tired of paying already high taxes. The people working high paying jobs don't live in Columbus, they live in the suburbs which are so spread out that it would make no sense trying to add another rail stop to every neighborhood. To include the suburbs at all, there would need to be a giant parking lot for ever suburb, assuming most people that work in downtown Columbus are on board. Where would these go?

 

Next, where would the lines even run? From the suburbs to downtown, it would be insanely expensive to build underground due to sheer distance. You can't use existing lines that are currently in use hauling freight, it would be a logistical nightmare to keep trains from colliding. So you have to run new lines. One down, one back. Do all the highways have enough space beside them for these lines? Elevating them the entire way would be just as prohibitively expensive as buying them, and looks like shit.

 

At some point, they would have to go underground. There is zero space in downtown Columbus for them above ground. Stops would have to be planned out within a couple blocks of each other, while avoiding existing underground garages, utilities, statehouse fallout shelter, etc. Much of this stuff is pretty damn old too, how good are the maps?

 

The subways running in the US were largely built in the 40's, and aside from growth in NYC and surrounding areas, none have been built in the country since the 80's if not earlier. The existing subways began life as private commuter rail running steam powered trains and were later converted to run city owned local transport. These systems were mostly in place while the cities were in their early stages of growth, and were able to grow with the cities to fit their needs. The cities that have rail also have traffic so bad that driving makes no sense.

 

I've been in traffic at 4 am on a saturday in NYC that was worse than ANY I've ever seen in Columbus. DC was built with horses in mind. LA is famed for not being able to get anywhere ever. Chicago is built up into a mountain that falls off a cliff into the lake. In these places, commuter rail makes complete sense, even more so since the foundation was set 100 years ago. Cincinnati is living proof of what happens when trying to add it to a city that has much lower population density per square mile. The money needed to get it anywhere runs out, and its abandoned.

 

Tell me something; how many of you that want this to go forward live in Columbus and would be paying the hiked up taxes to have it built? I certainly don't. I don't even live in Franklin county. I could theoretically benefit from this, but really just don't see the point.

 

cliffs - tl;dr

[Dr. Pomade]

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly: the only cities in which light rail "makes sense" are overly populated and likely too far beyond the help that a light rail system could provide.

 

YUP MAKES PERFECT SENSE

 

I think more proactive is needed here and less reactive. Think bigger picture, and think what the next 30 years holds, not the next 3. It's small-mindedness that, I think, cripples this city and stagnates the development of its identity. Columbus citizens should think Columbus-first, should be proactive in finding ways of promoting the city and enhancing it's image, and should be committed to finding ways of improving the livability and sustainability of the city for decades to come.

 

No, Columbus isn't NYC. Good. It doesn't need to be and it shouldn't want to be NYC. And just because it isn't NYC doesn't mean that it can't strive to have really cool advances that some people only think "fit" in cities like that.

 

DJ is spot on - outside of Chicago, Columbus is likely the finest city in the Midwest. It ranks highly on all the desired metrics: affordability, culture, educational opportunities, job growth, economic sustainability, political interests, a good balance of liberal and conservative values, low crime, etc. The weather kind of sucks, and the geography does too, but that's reflected in the affordability of the city.

[Orion]

Tell me something; how many of you that want this to go forward live in Columbus and would be paying the hiked up taxes to have it built?

 

*Raises hand*

 

I don't even live in my Columbus residence anymore, and I would STILL pay the taxes for it.

[mrs.cos]

Ok, well i live IN columbus and have no desire to pay for it. My taxes are rediculous enough.

[copperhead]

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly: the only cities in which light rail "makes sense" are overly populated and likely too far beyond the help that a light rail system could provide.

 

YUP MAKES PERFECT SENSE

 

I think more proactive is needed here and less reactive. Think bigger picture, and think what the next 30 years holds, not the next 3. It's small-mindedness that, I think, cripples this city and stagnates the development of its identity. Columbus citizens should think Columbus-first, should be proactive in finding ways of promoting the city and enhancing it's image, and should be committed to finding ways of improving the livability and sustainability of the city for decades to come.

 

No, Columbus isn't NYC. Good. It doesn't need to be and it shouldn't want to be NYC. And just because it isn't NYC doesn't mean that it can't strive to have really cool advances that some people only think "fit" in cities like that.

 

DJ is spot on - outside of Chicago, Columbus is likely the finest city in the Midwest. It ranks highly on all the desired metrics: affordability, culture, educational opportunities, job growth, economic sustainability, political interests, a good balance of liberal and conservative values, low crime, etc. The weather kind of sucks, and the geography does too, but that's reflected in the affordability of the city.

 

In 30 years Marysville, Marion, Logan, Newark, London and West Jefferson will all just be another Columbus suburb. Route 23 will be a giant highway past Delaware. IF this rail system is set up with that in mind then it might make sense, along with connecting to Cinci and Cleveland of course. I don't see any of that happening, there simply isn't any money for it. Keep in mind there's still quite a bit of auto manufacturing in Ohio that would quickly lobby against it.

 

I'm not saying rail would be a bad thing here. I just think it would be so difficult to achieve that it won't make it past the bureaucracy, or the tax payers, and there isn't any money in it so it won't be done by the private sector.

[tdyguy2k]

It wouldn't be just people living in Columbus that would be paying for it. Those thatwork in Columbus and live in the burbs would also be paying. Hell, I pay more in Columbus city tax tahn I do Pickerington city taxes. And working the grave yard shift, I would never benefit from it.

[wagner]

In 30 years Marysville, Marion, Logan, Newark, London and West Jefferson will all just be another Columbus suburb. Route 23 will be a giant highway past Delaware. IF this rail system is set up with that in mind then it might make sense, along with connecting to Cinci and Cleveland of course. I don't see any of that happening, there simply isn't any money for it. Keep in mind there's still quite a bit of auto manufacturing in Ohio that would quickly lobby against it.

 

I'm not saying rail would be a bad thing here. I just think it would be so difficult to achieve that it won't make it past the bureaucracy, or the tax payers, and there isn't any money in it so it won't be done by the private sector.

 

We're already paying as taxpayers for an arena with a private company's name on it that has a shitty hockey team living in it.

 

What's a little more of my money for something that won't be executed properly by elected officials who can't find their ass with their hands, your hands, and a GPS.

[El Karacho1647545492]

ITT: Lots of people who need to get off the internet and run for office.

[wagner]

ITT: Lots of people who need to get off the internet and run for office.

 

I thought about it, but the unwashed masses would not like my message of personal accountability and nothing in life is free.

[Green Bastard]

You would get my vote waggs.

[Orion]

What I am seeing in here is a lot of reasonable, logical arguments FOR light rail, and outside of a few intelligent thoughts, a lot of vitriol and bitterness being spewed against it in the guise of detest for politicians. If you have an actual argument, make it. If you only want to hate on politicians, then lets create a separate thread for that. I'll be in there with you.

[El Karacho1647545492]

What I am seeing in here is a lot of reasonable, logical arguments FOR light rail, and outside of a few intelligent thoughts, a lot of vitriol and bitterness being spewed against it in the guise of detest for politicians. If you have an actual argument, make it. If you only want to hate on politicians, then lets create a separate thread for that. I'll be in there with you.

 

:thumbup:

[Trouble Maker]

*Raises hand*.

 

plus one