EPA Cracking Down On Harley and Tuners

[wagner]

I'm telling you right now, the EPA is trying to squash the aftermarket business. Don't let anybody tell you or try to convince you otherwise, this threat is real.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-davidson-lawsuit-idUSKCN10T1JP

[99StockGT]

If the EPA ever really decided to take the gloves off and hunt down the "defeat devices" and "tuners" hundreds of shops across this country install and use there's going to be a big firey hole in the ground where many many shops once stood. Exactly why we and others don't do "test pipes" and DEF deletes, not worth the potential firestorm.

[xlr8tn]

seems the EPA isn't accepting the "race only" fine print anymore. I guess I see both sides of it really. As a car guy I hate seeing this stuff taken away. As a guy with children though I understand it's a greedy view to have..... "as long as my air is fine now who cares."

[99StockGT]

Could always get worse You could be living in Paris where...

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-autos-ban-idUSKCN0ZH4V8

[AngryBMW]

Could always get worse You could be living in Paris where...

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-autos-ban-idUSKCN0ZH4V8

 

Holy shit...Norway is planning on banning all gas and diesel engine vehicles by 2025?!

-Marc

[Geeesammy]

A lot of progress in modern automotive engineering has been made due to the aftermarket pushing the envelope. Taking that away will no doubt harm progress made.

[Mace1647545504]

Next they will ban cows

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/cow-emissions-more-damaging-to-planet-than-co2-from-cars-427843.html

 

thanks obama

[Geeto67]

I'm telling you right now, the EPA is trying to squash the aftermarket business. Don't let anybody tell you or try to convince you otherwise, this threat is real.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-davidson-lawsuit-idUSKCN10T1JP

 

The EPA is "cracking down" on people who are taking advantage of lax enforcement of something that was otherwise already illegal. I think it is a little alarmist to look at the Harley situation and say the EPA wants to stop all aftermarket everywhere when the problem isn't that the aftermarket parts exist, just that they were coming installed from the mfg and some dealers directly.

[10phone2]

Give an inch and they will take a mile.

 

The EPA wants to crack down on tuners while allowing goods to be imported from counties that have no regard to pollution since large corporations profit from the usa's trade deals which is a double standard. This has the goals to remove self-sufficiency in order to add to the low wage work force.

[MattKatz]

If the EPA ever really decided to take the gloves off and hunt down the "defeat devices" and "tuners" hundreds of shops across this country install and use there's going to be a big firey hole in the ground where many many shops once stood.

More like there will be a big fiery hole in the ground where the once bothersome EPA Stood IMO.....People will only be pushed soo far. TO me this is just more government overstepping.

[xlr8tn]

More like there will be a big fiery hole in the ground where the once bothersome EPA Stood IMO.....People will only be pushed soo far. TO me this is just more government overstepping.

 

tell that to all the hvac shops from the 80's Don't underestimate what the govt can get away with.

[Grudes]

I thought this was BS at first but it appears to be for real. I see a lot of reputable sources talking about it. It would suck if it really happened.

[wagner]

I thought this was BS at first but it appears to be for real. I see a lot of reputable sources talking about it. It would suck if it really happened.

 

Bingo.

 

What's NOT being talked about in the open about the EPA is what all car people should be worried about, trust me.

 

I talk with people in the industry all the time, so what do I know right?

[Geeto67]

Bingo.

 

What's NOT being talked about in the open about the EPA is what all car people should be worried about, trust me.

 

I talk with people in the industry all the time, so what do I know right?

 

You are also now in the journalism business (as much as car magazines can be considered journalism) so you have to try to keep an impartial view. It isn't about what you know, but more about what you "report". It's perfectly acceptable to say " the sentiment of Industry people is that the EPA wants to kill the aftermarket" because you are reporting on other's perception, vs when you say "the EPA wants to kill the aftermarket" then you have adopted their bias and position on their own at the cost of your credibility.

 

I get that you want to cater to your audience and what they want to hear, but remember you can do harm when you adopt the bias and present it as fact. I get that this is a forum and supposed to be a place to vent your opinions but when you write for a living your audience may not make the same separation.

 

Can we be clear about something here? This isn't a new law or any new development. Harley was breaking an existing law that the EPA was not enforcing all that well, and they have started to enforce more strongly. Harley was doing something illegal the entire time and the EPA finally got around to catching them and is now making an example.

 

The EPA cannot regulate an individuals behavior. If you want to buy a competition only part and use it on your street vehicle it has to defer to the state enforcement schemes to actually catch people, it simply does not have the resources nor the jurisdictional standing to catch every tom, dick, and harry who takes stock pipes off their sportster and puts on straight pipes. It can however regulate manufacturer's behavior and in this case that is what it has done: Harley and their dealer network can't facilitate their customers to break the law by selling a bike loaded down with "competition only" parts as conforming to street legal requirements. Harley can still sell competition only motorcycles that can't be registered, and it can still sell street motorcycles. It can also sell competition parts and street parts. It just can't sell competition only parts for bikes that aren't ever going to be used in competition and it certainly can have their dealers do the work when they know the part will be misused.

 

If the aftermarket will be "crippled" by the EPA enforcing laws already in place, then the Aftermarket needs to find another way to do business. It shouldn't be anybody's business model to do something illegal and not getting caught for it.

[wagner]

I give up

[zeitgeist57]

All I know is.... downtown in the Columbus Commons parking garage, the basement where I park (relatively temperate year-round, and monthly-pass people take a little more care with others around them than in gen-pop upstairs), they just cleared out over 50+ spots and installed signs that say "EPA Vehicles Only - Towing Enforced". I've paid more than $150/mo for years and now the spaces are being cut?

 

WTF??? Even better, most of them are empty! Are there cars coming from somewhere else for the EPA, or is the EPA bulking up? Why do they need so many parking spots???

[Geeto67]

I give up

 

Wags, I am trying really hard to figure out the message you are trying to deliver but it isn't coming across.

 

The EPA is trying to prevent people from removing the emissions equipment on newer vehicles that are being driven on the street because it is illegal and has been for some time. Do they go overbroad with it? yes but that may have to do with how much abuse has been happening for a long time. So is your position that the aftermarket should be allowed to sell things whose primary purpose is to break emissions regulations? or is there something else? What's this thing that is "not being talked about" that you think should be?

 

At the end of the day, I think where the government is trying to push the automotive aftermarket is to sell stuff that is still emissions compliant for street cars and bikes. I don't think they want to shut down the performance aftermarket at all, but rather have them sell performance parts that are still emissions compliant if they are going on a street car.

 

Sure the harley thing on it's face looks pretty bad because they are requiring harley to recall "competition only" tuners but think about it - Harley sold 340,000 of these things. Do you really think there are 340,000 harley "competition only" race bikes in this country right now? I can tell you how many there are in motorcycle road racing because it is a number I can count on my fingers. so again I ask you - what's the problem here? do you think Harley as an organization should help it's customers with street bikes break federal laws?

 

All I know is.... downtown in the Columbus Commons parking garage, the basement where I park (relatively temperate year-round, and monthly-pass people take a little more care with others around them than in gen-pop upstairs), they just cleared out over 50+ spots and installed signs that say "EPA Vehicles Only - Towing Enforced". I've paid more than $150/mo for years and now the spaces are being cut?

 

WTF??? Even better, most of them are empty! Are there cars coming from somewhere else for the EPA, or is the EPA bulking up? Why do they need so many parking spots???

 

The EPA got a $127 Million budget increase approved for 2017 to support several new programs so...yeah...they might be hiring very soon. A lot of this is local community based and even more has to do with auto and manufacturing industries as well as clean water which traditionally have roots in this region. I don't know about the EPA office in Columbus specifically but they are getting more money which usually means more jobs.

[Otis Nice]

Wags, I am trying really hard to figure out the message you are trying to deliver but it isn't coming across.

 

That might be because you've got your head so far up your own ass exhaling as frequently as possible in order to inflate that giant ego of yours that you can't see the light of day, let alone take the advice from someone in the industry that knows more than you (which I know is hard for you to fathom), but that's none of my business. YMMV.

 

Have a great evening.

[cdk 4219]

Don't worry, he will be very mad when the " competition" tuner that runs his V-twin ass dildo, is recalled.

[Geeto67]

That might be because you've got your head so far up your own ass exhaling as frequently as possible in order to inflate that giant ego of yours that you can't see the light of day, let alone take the advice from someone in the industry that knows more than you (which I know is hard for you to fathom), but that's none of my business. YMMV.

 

Have a great evening.

 

Well aren't you just a warm ray of sunshine.

[Not Brian]

"Given Harley-Davidson’s prominence in the industry, this is a very significant step toward our goal of stopping the sale of illegal after-market defeat devices that cause harmful pollution on our roads and in our communities," John Cruden, head of the Justice Department's environmental and natural resources division, said in a statement.

I see what Kerry's saying, but this quote sounds like it's just one small step towards something bigger (like Wags is saying).

[Otis Nice]

Well aren't you just a warm ray of sunshine.

 

Only calling it like I see it. No harm, no foul, right?

[Geeto67]

Only calling it like I see it. No harm, no foul, right?

 

Hardly, but shush, the grown ups are talking.

 

The automotive aftermarket is not solely engine performance, there are also replacement part, restoration, suspension, brake, and body mfgs that the EPA is not "going after". So to say the EPA is trying to shut down the automotive aftermarket as a whole is problematic because it is not true. It is trying to force a change however in one segment. What that change is exactly is open to debate.

 

I think a couple things need to change in the automotive hobby:

 

1) the EPA is not the evil villain and the enemy of fun. Because of it the water in Cleveland does not burn when you put a match to it. Our air is cleaner than it was in the 60's, and there is more and more natural wilderness being preserved.

 

2) emissions are not the enemy of performance. Today we have cleaner, more fuel efficient, higher hp small block chevrolets than any big block 454 could hope to be. We have more 4 and 6 cyl engines making the power a 327ci Chevy could only dream about. There needs to be more innovation in this area, not less, and some of that will come from the aftermarket. There is a real need here that nobody is filling because the money is focused on ways to disable emissions controls.

 

Is the EPA going a little too far in Harley's case? Maybe may be not. They also settled with them for a really small amount and allowed them to escape admitting fault and calling it a "disagreement" so....in the end it seems like a wash.

 

There are a lot of things in the hobby that are changing. The street/strip car is kinda going away because the cars are getting faster than the rules. The old mentality that you can't have a clean and powerful engine is going away because of advancements in technology. Being reactionary and alarmist about some of the motivations for this change is not helping, change is going to happen whether we want it to or not.

[zeitgeist57]

Kerry and I spent parts of our childhood in New York, and anyone in Cuyahoga county (Cleveland area) knows about annual inspections and emissions certification. Man...I hope we're not going down that road.

 

Although, there are certainly some janky-a$$ cars on the road that need regulating, quite frankly. If heightened emissions controls are part of that solution, then so be it. If I can get a $75 cat to weld-in on my historical-tagged teeruk and be emissions compliant, then I'm good with that...

 

...the problem I fear is anything done by .gov will reach further than they need to and make processes far more complicated.

 

 

Here's to hoping a lot of what the EPA is doing will go after OTR semi trucks and large diesels...I know they were looking at cracking down on that group.

[Geeto67]

Kerry and I spent parts of our childhood in New York, and anyone in Cuyahoga county (Cleveland area) knows about annual inspections and emissions certification. Man...I hope we're not going down that road.

 

I don't think we are going down that road, at least not for a while. The EPA seems content to let the states handle that part of enforcement as part of their jurisdiction and while they sometimes do put pressure on the states, hardly anything comes from it. Legislation through congress will probably have the biggest impact on that and I don't see anything on the horizion...yet. I'm sure if something were to come through SEMA would make big deal about it.

 

 

Although, there are certainly some janky-a$$ cars on the road that need regulating, quite frankly. If heightened emissions controls are part of that solution, then so be it. If I can get a $75 cat to weld-in on my historical-tagged teeruk and be emissions compliant, then I'm good with that...

 

A lot of the modern stuff isn't looking for retrofit on older junk. In fact there have been some programs by the OEMs like GM's E-rod program that push that way, but for the most part the EPA isn't really wanting to mess with the old stuff. They certainly aren't shaking Holley's tree for making carbs. California and CARB tend to be the big drivers in that area. I do think cheaper higher flow cats, motorcycle exhaust that has a cat in it that doesn't look any different from a straight pipe, and other emissions device alternatives other than a Cat are an untapped market for people looking to modify their new vehicles.

 

 

...the problem I fear is anything done by .gov will reach further than they need to and make processes far more complicated.

 

that's everyone's fear including the EPA's. The PR fiasco that was the competition vehicle language earlier this year created a huge backlash for them and a more antagonistic enemy in the automotive industry than they intended. Many in the industry see the recent harley thing as just more of that "going after" mentality but really they let harley off very light compared to some of the other OEMs. If you want to thank one asshole for ruining it for everyone it's Volkswagen - they proved that cheating is rampant and at the highest levels and the EPA is now spurned into action more than ever - but now they also have to tread lightly because of some sloppy bill writing. It's going to be an interesting next couple of years.

 

Here's to hoping a lot of what the EPA is doing will go after OTR semi trucks and large diesels...I know they were looking at cracking down on that group.

 

The Bro-truck rolling coal thing needs to go away. Seriously. I love diesels and I am all for fast diesel trucks but blowing huge clouds of black smoke on the highway just to be a douche needs to stop. Also the construction industry had a long time to police themselves and keep the EPA off their back, and they didn't so now they are being treated like the misbehaving children they are. That started out as the EPA's focus but after that legislative wording fiasco the EPA seems to have collectively pulled back.