Political Thread Of Fail And AIDS (Geeto ahead!)

[Geeto67]

What I've learned is to have a far more open eye towards any candidate, GOP or Dem (Roy Moore, anyone? :no: )

 

 

I think this is the most important lesson anybody can have learned from this.

[CRed05]

You're going to want to avoid the Smithsonian's African American Museum then. https://nmaahc.si.edu/ I went through it while visiting in DC. While hugely informative and very well done, many of the exhibits were generously donated/curated by Oprah Winfrey and close friends.

 

We sanitize much of history as a means of supporting our own struggle for a better future. MLK, Jr...didn't I just hear something about his infidelities (mistress/affairs, drinking, drugs) during Civil Rights movement? NMAAHC makes frequent mentioning of William Jefferson's six children born into slavery? I don't remember reading any of that in textbooks. :gabe:

 

Hmm, doesn't surprise me. I'm sure I'd find it informative as well, but nice to know that it has an Oprah Winfrey backing.

 

It's so true about history though. First thing that comes to mind is Gandhi, people like to make him out as a saint, but also not mentioned in text books are that he loved to sleep with under-aged girls, and quite racist against black people. Mandela is another person that comes to mind.

[BStowers023]

I made my reasonings around voting for Trump further up the thread. NO RAGRETS. Obama was also my President and I show both men respect for holding the position. However, Trump has been way more disappointing. What I've learned is to have a far more open eye towards any candidate, GOP or Dem (Roy Moore, anyone? :no: )

 

Trump more disappointing than Obama? :lolguy:

 

Stop listening to Kerry, Greg, CNN and all the other Trump bashing sources. I can understand hating Trump for hurting your feelings because of the mean things the rich whitey said, other than that, I don't see a real argument.

 

Under Trump...

-On Thursday the Dow Jones his a record high of 25,075.13

-250,000 new jobs created in December alone; ADP

-Job cuts in 2017 were at their lowest level since 1990; CNBC

-Manufacturing has it's best year since 2004; Bloomberg

-We're opening up off-shore drilling to become energy dependent

-Unemployment at a 17 year low; BLS

-1.9 million jobs created in 2017; BLS

-African American Unemployment at a 17 year low; BLS

-Food Stamp use at a 7 year low; USDA

-Home Prices up 6%; Standard and Poor's

-16 regulations cut for every 1 created in 2017; Fox

-Two quarters of over 3% GDP growth; Commerce Department

 

Mind you this is all before the historic tax cut.

 

 

Under Obama; Census Bureau, BLS, Treasury Department, CBO

-Lowest Labor Participation rate since 1970

-94 million Americans out of the labor force

-Lowest home ownership rate in 51 years

-Almost 13 million more Americans on food stamps

-Over 43 million living in poverty

 

 

 

In before Kerry points out that the President doesn't control any of this or Trump hasn't been in office long enough to change anything while somehow simultaneously being the root cause for all the awful things in America :lolguy:

 

Before you respond, Kerry. Shut up, fat boy. I don't care.

[Geeto67]

"History is written by the victors. History isn't really history until it's been re written. -Lawrence Ferlinghetti"

 

"The one duty we have to history is to rewrite it. -Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), The Critic as Artist [1891]"

 

"What is history after all? History is facts which become lies in the end; legends and lies which become history in the end. -Jean Cocteau (1889-1963), in _The Observer_ [sept 22, 1957]"

 

"We" don't sanitize anything, the information is out there for us to learn if we seek it. Those who have a need to utilize the information for their own agenda edit as they see fit. Sometimes it is altruistic, sometimes it is malicious, it is our responsibility to evaluate the context and act accordingly.

[Geeto67]

double post.

[Geeto67]

 

Before you respond, Kerry. Shut up, fat boy. I don't care.

 

Then I shall continue to treat you as the close minded ignorant jackass you represent yourself to be. You are just not an intelligent or knowledgeable person and I think we both know you will never be.

 

In before Kerry points out that the President doesn't control any of this or Trump hasn't been in office long enough to change anything while somehow simultaneously being the root cause for all the awful things in America :lolguy:

 

I don't have to say any of this: 1) you know he hasn't been in office long enough to affect change and many of the things you cite as success the president has little to do with. You know this because other people smarter than both of us are saying it, you just CHOOSE not to believe it because you like to feed your own ignorance.

 

2) It's a shame you think that I think he is the root cause of all the awful things in america, because even I don't think that.

 

- Trump didn't invent racism, or Nazi's, or white supremacy. The republican party has historically had white supremacy/nazi problem he is just not very experienced at handling it which is pretty much bad for everyone who isn't a nazi.

 

- He didn't invent foreign influence. Foreign influence relies solely on the reputation and credibility of it's leader. Because he is inexperienced he is bad at cultivating his reputation and credibility and it has cost us our foreign relationships. Like it or not, this country needs foreign influence for foreign trade. His overall presentation feeds our enemies propaganda, you tell me how that isn't bad for us? Outside the US we are not seen as stable at the moment and who wants to do business with an unstable regime? The good news is that the rest of the world is sensible and all they have to do is wait.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Geeto67

[BStowers023]

Then I shall continue to treat you as the close minded ignorant jackass you represent yourself to be.

 

If we keep calling each other the same thing, we might get nowhere! Just like we want.

[Geeto67]

If we keep calling each other the same thing, we might get nowhere! Just like we want.

 

So what you are saying is you regret how you started this latest tit for tat? Great!!!! Apology Accepted.

[greg1647545532]

Trump more disappointing than Obama? :lolguy:

 

This is what's known as a Gish Gallop. Your post is full of half-true facts, outright falsehoods, and irrelevant data points, there's no sense in responding to each one individually because you don't have the attention span. Plus, you know the Backfire Effect just says that if anyone tries, your natural (human) instinct that you've shown no desire to overcome is going to be to double down on believing whatever it is you want to believe.

 

No, President-elect Trump. There’s no Obama economic disaster.

 

Facts are stubborn things. By measures that count, the last eight years have been a time of steady improvement, though short of a record-setting boom. Only one of the last six presidents led the U.S. during a more vigorous economic period. That was Clinton, and he gives Obama extra credit because of the financial crisis.

 

Read at your leisure, or don't, whatever. Regardless, I'm not one to give the president any credit for the economy, a position which you seem to acknowledge but then ignore anyway. Especially when presidents can't point to anything in particular that they might have done.

 

So let's talk about the trainwreck that is Trump. First and foremost, let's talk about messaging. A good leader should provide a clear and consistent message for people to follow. What we've seen in Trump is a white house marked by chaos and confusion. He contradicts his own spokespeople mere hours after they profess to speak on his behalf. He lies constantly about stuff that doesn't even matter. He changes his mind frequently, endorsing a position and then later endorsing the opposite position.

 

He attempted to change DoD policy on transgendered troops via tweet, sowed mass confusion among executive branch staffers and the DoD, and eventually issued guidance which is now being ignored because no lawyer in the DoD could rationalize following it.

 

Perhaps his signature accomplishment, an ill-conceived and racist travel ban, was written and announced without coordinating with any of the agencies or career civil servants tasked with enforcing it, again sowing confusion and chaos in the branch that he purports to lead.

 

He's left hundreds of high level executive branch positions unfilled, something he claims is because they're "unnecessary" while at the same time failing to give those agencies any guidance on what they're supposed to do with the holes in leadership. Again, confusion, chaos. These are not the hallmarks of a good leader.

 

 

He's done lasting damage to our relationships with other world leaders with seemingly no benefit to the US. He sucks at diplomacy and pretends that's a virtue.

 

 

He failed to get Obamacare repealed. Now, I'm personally glad that the Republicans didn't get to pull out the rug from a working program even if it's not my favorite, but you can't view this as anything other than a complete failure of leadership from a self-proclaimed master negotiator. Republicans are in power because of an anti-Obamacare mandate. Trump himself promised for years to repeal it on day one. And he failed miserably.

 

Trump is a terrible leader, and that's bad. I'd rather have a competent leader do things I don't like than an incompetent leader fail at the most important job in the country.

[LJ]

I am a stabil jeanius

[zeitgeist57]

In before Kerry points out that the President doesn't control any of this or Trump hasn't been in office long enough to change anything while somehow simultaneously being the root cause for all the awful things in America :lolguy:

 

Kerry doesn't have to point it out...you just did. And if you didn't, I WOULD HAVE.

 

He's disappointing from a personal conduct standpoint, which matters to some people. I've said it before and I'll say it again: one of my McSteaks is assuming the gravity of being the President of the United States of America would've humbled Trump into being more of a statesman, and it hasn't.

 

My feelings aren't hurt. My accounts are fatter. Trump is his own worst enemy (how many of his cabinet has come and gone in less than a year?) and I cannot see how history will regard him any other way...DOW 25,000+ included. That's all.

 

Full disclosure: Just like under Obama, I wish the best for the President and our country. Anything less from a U.S. citizen is pitiful.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Trump sucks, I'll give you that. Hes embarrassing. But I'm still waiting to hear what was the better option, and why?

[greg1647545532]

Trump sucks, I'll give you that. Hes embarrassing. But I'm still waiting to hear what was the better option, and why?

 

Hillary Clinton, because

 

I'd rather have a competent leader do things I don't like than an incompetent leader fail at the most important job in the country.

 

Country over party.

[BStowers023]

This is what's known as a Gish Gallop. Your post is full of half-true facts, outright falsehoods, and irrelevant data points, there's no sense in responding to each one individually because you don't have the attention span. Plus, you know the Backfire Effect just says that if anyone tries, your natural (human) instinct that you've shown no desire to overcome is going to be to double down on believing whatever it is you want to believe.

 

No, President-elect Trump. There’s no Obama economic disaster.

 

 

 

Read at your leisure, or don't, whatever. Regardless, I'm not one to give the president any credit for the economy, a position which you seem to acknowledge but then ignore anyway. Especially when presidents can't point to anything in particular that they might have done.

 

So let's talk about the trainwreck that is Trump. First and foremost, let's talk about messaging. A good leader should provide a clear and consistent message for people to follow. What we've seen in Trump is a white house marked by chaos and confusion. He contradicts his own spokespeople mere hours after they profess to speak on his behalf. He lies constantly about stuff that doesn't even matter. He changes his mind frequently, endorsing a position and then later endorsing the opposite position.

 

He attempted to change DoD policy on transgendered troops via tweet, sowed mass confusion among executive branch staffers and the DoD, and eventually issued guidance which is now being ignored because no lawyer in the DoD could rationalize following it.

 

Perhaps his signature accomplishment, an ill-conceived and racist travel ban, was written and announced without coordinating with any of the agencies or career civil servants tasked with enforcing it, again sowing confusion and chaos in the branch that he purports to lead.

 

He's left hundreds of high level executive branch positions unfilled, something he claims is because they're "unnecessary" while at the same time failing to give those agencies any guidance on what they're supposed to do with the holes in leadership. Again, confusion, chaos. These are not the hallmarks of a good leader.

 

 

He's done lasting damage to our relationships with other world leaders with seemingly no benefit to the US. He sucks at diplomacy and pretends that's a virtue.

 

 

He failed to get Obamacare repealed. Now, I'm personally glad that the Republicans didn't get to pull out the rug from a working program even if it's not my favorite, but you can't view this as anything other than a complete failure of leadership from a self-proclaimed master negotiator. Republicans are in power because of an anti-Obamacare mandate. Trump himself promised for years to repeal it on day one. And he failed miserably.

 

Trump is a terrible leader, and that's bad. I'd rather have a competent leader do things I don't like than an incompetent leader fail at the most important job in the country.

 

I posted some facts. Read a few posts up

 

Kerry doesn't have to point it out...you just did. And if you didn't, I WOULD HAVE.

 

He's disappointing from a personal conduct standpoint, which matters to some people. I've said it before and I'll say it again: one of my McSteaks is assuming the gravity of being the President of the United States of America would've humbled Trump into being more of a statesman, and it hasn't.

 

My feelings aren't hurt. My accounts are fatter. Trump is his own worst enemy (how many of his cabinet has come and gone in less than a year?) and I cannot see how history will regard him any other way...DOW 25,000+ included. That's all.

 

Full disclosure: Just like under Obama, I wish the best for the President and our country. Anything less from a U.S. citizen is pitiful.

 

So a President is only judged based on personal conduct?

 

 

Hillary Clinton, because

 

Country over party.

 

Great reply. A+ :thumbup:

[greg1647545532]

I posted some facts. Read a few posts up

 

What facts?

[BStowers023]

Hopefully your issue is inability to scroll up and not reading or this won't be any help.

 

What facts?

 

 

Trump more disappointing than Obama? :lolguy:

 

Stop listening to Kerry, Greg, CNN and all the other Trump bashing sources. I can understand hating Trump for hurting your feelings because of the mean things the rich whitey said, other than that, I don't see a real argument.

 

Under Trump...

-On Thursday the Dow Jones his a record high of 25,075.13

-250,000 new jobs created in December alone; ADP

-Job cuts in 2017 were at their lowest level since 1990; CNBC

-Manufacturing has it's best year since 2004; Bloomberg

-We're opening up off-shore drilling to become energy dependent

-Unemployment at a 17 year low; BLS

-1.9 million jobs created in 2017; BLS

-African American Unemployment at a 17 year low; BLS

-Food Stamp use at a 7 year low; USDA

-Home Prices up 6%; Standard and Poor's

-16 regulations cut for every 1 created in 2017; Fox

-Two quarters of over 3% GDP growth; Commerce Department

 

Mind you this is all before the historic tax cut.

 

 

Under Obama; Census Bureau, BLS, Treasury Department, CBO

-Lowest Labor Participation rate since 1970

-94 million Americans out of the labor force

-Lowest home ownership rate in 51 years

-Almost 13 million more Americans on food stamps

-Over 43 million living in poverty

 

 

 

In before Kerry points out that the President doesn't control any of this or Trump hasn't been in office long enough to change anything while somehow simultaneously being the root cause for all the awful things in America :lolguy:

 

Before you respond, Kerry. Shut up, fat boy. I don't care.

[zeitgeist57]

So a President is only judged based on personal conduct?

 

No. Unless you're the President with all of THIS going on...

 

Under Trump...

-On Thursday the Dow Jones his a record high of 25,075.13

-250,000 new jobs created in December alone; ADP

-Job cuts in 2017 were at their lowest level since 1990; CNBC

-Manufacturing has it's best year since 2004; Bloomberg

-We're opening up off-shore drilling to become energy dependent

-Unemployment at a 17 year low; BLS

-1.9 million jobs created in 2017; BLS

-African American Unemployment at a 17 year low; BLS

-Food Stamp use at a 7 year low; USDA

-Home Prices up 6%; Standard and Poor's

-16 regulations cut for every 1 created in 2017; Fox

-Two quarters of over 3% GDP growth; Commerce Department

 

Mind you this is all before the historic tax cut.

 

...and still act like a grade-A a$$hole.

 

Then, YES. Personal conduct plays a huge part in people's perception.

 

Here's the thing, Brandon: In a Central Ohio car forum I am openly admitting that I voted for Donald Trump for President, and I am disappointed at my choice. The man LITERALLY could sit in the Lincoln bedroom, eat MickeyD's, Tweet pro-Trump "accomplishments" and he'd have a 60% approval rate.

 

Instead, he takes cheap shots at B-list political players, alienates other global leaders, and becomes the target of jokes and unnecessary NOISE, because of his actions.

 

He's not a good President. He's not even a very good mascot.

 

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

 

I'd rather have a competent leader do things I don't like than an incompetent leader fail at the most important job in the country.

 

[BStowers023]

No. Unless you're the President with all of THIS going on...

 

 

 

...and still act like a grade-A a$$hole.

 

Then, YES. Personal conduct plays a huge part in people's perception.

 

Here's the thing, Brandon: In a Central Ohio car forum I am openly admitting that I voted for Donald Trump for President, and I am disappointed at my choice. The man LITERALLY could sit in the Lincoln bedroom, eat MickeyD's, Tweet pro-Trump "accomplishments" and he'd have a 60% approval rate.

 

Instead, he takes cheap shots at B-list political players, alienates other global leaders, and becomes the target of jokes and unnecessary NOISE, because of his actions.

 

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

 

 

Who cares about approval ratings? The economy is booming, our country is safe (don't listen to CNN), more money is going into your pocket, if you own a home the value is continuing to increase. Look at the positives that are effecting you directly. If you let some tweet get you all riled up or are worried about "approval ratings" then IDK what to tell ya, man. It must suck being disappointed all the time.

[greg1647545532]

Hopefully your issue is inability to scroll up and not reading or this won't be any help.

 

Hey you ignorant twat, you see that little blue arrow next to your name right above this sentence? You know if you click on that little blue arrow it takes you to the post that you're quoting, right?

 

Now scroll up to post #1584, which is a post of mine where I quoted the very post you're referencing, the one with all the facts. You can tell I quoted that specific post because of the little blue arrow there, it takes you right to it.

 

So yeah, I already addressed your facts. If you want me to summarize again, I said they're mostly either taken out of context, irrelevant, or flat out wrong, and I called the whole thing an attempt at a Gish Gallop, which I then linked you to a definition for because I know you fucking suck at researching things yourself.

 

Your facts are bad, and you should feel bad.

 

I then posted a link to a Bloomberg article with lots of facts of my own, facts to the effect of "only an idiot could look at the numbers from 2009-2016 and conclude that Obama's economy was bad." I quoted a sentence from that article that summarized the main point, as a benefit to you, incompetent reader, so you'd know the gist of what you'd get if you clicked on the link.

 

I also, by the way, pointed out the utter futility in debating facts with you, because whenever I point out that your facts are wrong you just double down on being wrong.

 

I gave you too much credit though. You either didn't read my reply, or you didn't understand any of it. Bravo.

[zeitgeist57]

Who cares about approval ratings? The economy is booming, our country is safe (don't listen to CNN), more money is going into your pocket, if you own a home the value is continuing to increase. Look at the positives that are effecting you directly. If you let some tweet get you all riled up or are worried about "approval ratings" then IDK what to tell ya, man. It must suck being disappointed all the time.

 

Ninja, plz. It just sucks to be as awesome as I am, and have Trump to be disappointed with. Don't snipe at me with passive-aggressive comments...I'm just answering your shitty questions.

 

Think about the future. Wouldn't it be great if all the good things Trump is overseeing could be magnified by a positive world perception, and faith in him as The Leader of The Free World?

[Geeto67]

Who cares about approval ratings?

 

Other countries. Also other politicians. Its not "That" important but it isn't valueless either. Presidents with good approval ratings usually have an easier time getting other politicians (Like congress and foreign leaders) to go along with their policies because they all want to share in some of that good will. Regardless as to whether it is even accurate, just the reporting of it is a form of political currency. Does it matter to you and me? not so much, but if he wanted to be more effective it should matter to Trump.

 

Other Presidents have had lower approval ratings, but usually they come at the expense of the president being successful in passing some action that proves to be unpopular (think GWB, 9/11, and the subsequent Afghan/Iraq wars). Trump is unpopular before he has had a chance to be successful with any major initiative and it's mostly because of his Tweets, Quotes, general demeanor, etc. That is going to make it harder to get more done going forward.

 

The economy is booming

which presidents have a little effect on and usually lagged (so thanks obama)

 

, our country is safe (don't listen to CNN),

For now, but it is no more or less safe than it was before. The only difference now is that if we have a problem, we may have less foreign allies to rely on because he's pissed on a lot of people's leg.

 

 

more money is going into your pocket,

That isn't being paid to the deficit and will cause more money to be owed in the future

 

if you own a home the value is continuing to increase.

Actually this is not going to be true for very much longer. Part of the new tax plan cuts mortgage interest deductions in order to get house prices to fall, on purpose. This is one of the few areas that the democrats agree with the GOP on for strategy, but it is not very popular with home owners. The good news is that it won't take effect till 2019 (projections say 2020 for homeowners to actually feel it) so if you are planning on selling, maybe you want to do it before Jan 2019.

 

Look at the positives that are effecting you directly. If you let some tweet get you all riled up or are worried about "approval ratings" then IDK what to tell ya, man. It must suck being disappointed all the time.

 

The positives that are happening are in spite of his actions, not because of it. Basically the areas he isn't able to touch. The president is the #1 diplomat and the CIC of the Armed services, those are his primary responsibilities and even the American military is ignoring him, what does that say?

[CRed05]

Let's not forget that 2017 was the safest year in commercial aviation. Thanks Trump!

[Geeto67]

Let's not forget that 2017 was the safest year in commercial aviation. Thanks Trump!

 

Unlike Obama, who be swatting MH370s from the sky like King Kong!!!!

 

2017 was the safest year in Extraterrestrial Invasions, Thanks Trump!

[99StockGT]

Only thing I can constructively add to this "conversation" is...

 

This just in, DOW above 25,000 for the first time... White people continue to want to make more money!

[Geeesammy]

Who cares about approval ratings?

 

You are a fuckin derp my man.

 

It's not that anyone really ultra super cant wait to read about the ratings. It shows how people feel about the prez (obviously)

 

In my eyes basically a low approval ratings means mid term elections will swing to the other side, so now it will swing dem in the midterms. They (R's) have basically blown their shot at doing anything they wanted to and only have themselves to blame.