School Shootings...Can We Fix It!?!

[1Quik7]

I'm a Columbine kid, ie; I was in HS during the original (epic) mass shooting. I find it rather pedantic that these Florida kids march on Tallahasse and Washington. My wife is a K-3 Teacher and they are supposed to 'walk out' on a day in March.

 

What's the answer? Is there an answer?

 

Our 'drunk' discusions tonight we've had 2 ideas:

 

1: Have a Live firearm onsite and post it, like ADP stickers on a house. We all assume when we fly on a major airline, there is a lockbox with a pistol in the cockpit. Is there? Who knows...its a good deterrent.

 

2:Ex Military - Guys/gals that served thier duty/etc. be armed resouce officers. +Karma to the branch they served talking to kids every day and selling the service.

 

That's our ideas.

[BStowers023]

There was a cop at the school. He was just a huge pussy unfortunately and hung out outside and waited for backup instead of engaging the shooter.

[TTQ B4U]

I'm not against arming teachers but IMO just add a few armed police or private security team to the mix. Staffing is important and expensive, but the schools budgets are fucked up and due for an overhaul as it is. I'm tired of hearing the statment that gun people value guns more than kids, so let's flip it on them and see if they value kids lives more than money or the effort to save some elsewhere to put it here. We don't need as many State Troopers as I see on I-71 as we have generating money off the backs of working people. I think the sheriffs and local PD's can cover my ass speeding just fine.

 

My opinion is based on the fact that most shooters seem to die or care little if they do. I think that's a fair statement so let that be done by a pro. My son's school in Dublin has 4 uniformed cops. They don't walk around with long guns but I was surprised to see one is a K9 unit and the at lease another I saw was clearly armed with multiple hand guns and enough magazines to go to battle. I think the visible presence is more than intimidating. My son is fine and even he said the bad-kids in school don't fuck around with other kids as the cops are on scene too fast and mean business. Their vehicles are right out front and one out back too.

 

Let a pro do their job as its worth the money. I'm not saying not to CHL Holders in the classroom but I do strongly feel we can come up with budget to do this. This is a great example of why we need to focus on AMERICANS FIRST and stop fucking around providing shelter, benefits and resources on those that should not be here. If someone over stays their visa or walks in then kick them the fuck out immediately and don't waste money on the issue. We as a country need to see funding related to that bullshit is instead spent on our needs.

[PRD2BDF]

As a high school teacher, I think what needs to be done is to provide more mental health care counselors at every school in a ratio where one can adequately care for a xx number of students instead of 1 to 500. That alone is our first defense as they can identify and take action if a student is showing homicidal tendencies. Second step is to have a cop, not a rentacop but an actual cop at the school actively patrolling in the school. Third, eliminate the standards and testing placed on students and teachers. We already have a tough time doing all of the required things and leave us with a speck of time to actually teach and form a rapport with our students.

 

I guarantee that if these things are done, shootings will be a thing of the past

[Cordell]

... Edited February 25, 2018 by Cordell

[Furloaf]

There was a cop at the school. He was just a huge pussy unfortunately and hung out outside and waited for backup instead of engaging the shooter.

 

Not only that, when backup got there they too waited outside. It took another police department getting there to actually go in.

 

Coward County Sheriff department is more like it.

[greg1647545532]

How do you define "fixing it?" When do we know that the problem is fixed?

 

2:Ex Military - Guys/gals that served thier duty/etc. be armed resouce officers. +Karma to the branch they served talking to kids every day and selling the service.

 

Can we stop with this former military nonsense? I cannot tell you how many tacticool bad-tattoo Air Force dipshits I've met in my career who have no fucking business doing security. The people who'd want to do this shouldn't, and the people who I'd actually trust to do this wouldn't want to. Maybe the other branches are different but I doubt it. Using the label of "former military" as a judge of tactical awareness, skill, or personal character is a terrible idea.

[KentStateTsi]

Exactly. There are enough Grunt Style tee shirts in public already. No need to place a handful more in schools.

[10phone2]

As a high school teacher, I think what needs to be done is to provide more mental health care counselors at every school in a ratio where one can adequately care for a xx number of students instead of 1 to 500. That alone is our first defense as they can identify and take action if a student is showing homicidal tendencies. Second step is to have a cop, not a rentacop but an actual cop at the school actively patrolling in the school. Third, eliminate the standards and testing placed on students and teachers. We already have a tough time doing all of the required things and leave us with a speck of time to actually teach and form a rapport with our students.

 

I guarantee that if these things are done, shootings will be a thing of the past

 

Interesting points.

 

I remember when I was a skill trainer in a middle school how everything would stop and chaos would ensue so teachers could have kids cram for the test. I do agree that there needs to be more of a focus on mental health. What I find at work in training front line call center agents is that their self-talk is what leads them to depression, complacency to do nothing but binge watch netflicks leads to lack of self-control ties to inconsistencies in life overall (no self-discipline), the lack of how to deal with confrontation situations in a professional manner is the root of the majority of their social problems, some will be lifers in front-line work because they have had no exposure to logical problem solving, and some have poor financial awareness which causes a never ending shit-show of not being able to deal with things when they break down. I honestly could be wrong, but adding education to drive awareness in these areas I feel could solve the majority of the problems I came across in people I train. Being unhappy in life to me is a mental state that can be solved early on versus someone that is nick names smurf because they chase them around all day.

 

I honestly have only come across one person that I felt if his new endeavor to go back to school didn't work out he would likely end up hanging himself.

 

When schools went away from competition and physical education, it removed the exposure early on to teach kids how to deal with not being good enough and adversity.

Edited February 24, 2018 by 10phone2

[aussiek2000]

First question on NICS form should be political part affiliation. Democrat is automatic denial of gun purchase.

[BStowers023]

How do you define "fixing it?" When do we know that the problem is fixed?

 

 

 

Can we stop with this former military nonsense? I cannot tell you how many tacticool bad-tattoo Air Force dipshits I've met in my career who have no fucking business doing security. The people who'd want to do this shouldn't, and the people who I'd actually trust to do this wouldn't want to. Maybe the other branches are different but I doubt it. Using the label of "former military" as a judge of tactical awareness, skill, or personal character is a terrible idea.

 

Surprisingly I actually agree with Greg for once. There is a wide range of tactical knowledge in the military. Simply being in the military does not qualify you. I think I read somewhere that only 10% of military members see combat during war time (obviously this varies a bit depending on the war). I'd venture to say most active duty military personnel don't fire a weapon after boot camp. You also don't want someone in that position looking for a reason to be a hero. That has bad news written all over it.

[STEVE-O]

Surprisingly I actually agree with Greg for once. There is a wide range of tactical knowledge in the military. Simply being in the military does not qualify you. I think I read somewhere that only 10% of military members see combat during war time (obviously this varies a bit depending on the war). I'd venture to say most active duty military personnel don't fire a weapon after boot camp. You also don't want someone in that position looking for a reason to be a hero. That has bad news written all over it.

 

Old co-worker of mine became a police officer having never fired a firearm in his life, absolutely no way In hell even after passing the training classes he has now gone through do I feel in a situation people like that would be able to act accordingly when needed.

 

Even if it became a nationwide thing and the “school” becomes more of a safe haven people who want to do harm will still do it. What are we going to do when it becomes a movie theater craze? Any other place where mass amounts of people are at in a given time.

 

Fix the people who have the issue not the physical location the incidents occur

[KillJoy]

THIS!!!

 

:thumbup:

 

KillJoy

 

As a high school teacher, I think what needs to be done is to provide more mental health care counselors at every school in a ratio where one can adequately care for a xx number of students instead of 1 to 500. That alone is our first defense as they can identify and take action if a student is showing homicidal tendencies. Second step is to have a cop, not a rentacop but an actual cop at the school actively patrolling in the school. Third, eliminate the standards and testing placed on students and teachers. We already have a tough time doing all of the required things and leave us with a speck of time to actually teach and form a rapport with our students.

 

I guarantee that if these things are done, shootings will be a thing of the past

[Geeesammy]

Stole this but applicable

School Safety Ideas Nobody Wants to Talk About

 

1. Fatherlessness needs to be addressed. Kids need dads- most shooters don't have an involved dad. Can we connect boys without fathers to father-figure mentors? This is also a theme in the inner-city, less-publicized, yet more-frequent gun crimes in minority communities.

 

2. Adults need to be held accountable. The Parkland shooting last week is 'Exhibit A' on that. Dozens of adults at the school, local law enforcement agencies, and even the FBI knew about this kid and what he said he was going to do. Another adult, the SRO on duty, could have stopped it while it was happening but never went in. How many adults around this situation will be charged with crimes like negligence or manslaughter for their blatant failures? My guess is zero. How many will lose their jobs? My guess is zero. Nobody does anything because you risk nothing by doing nothing and get in trouble if you take a proactive approach and try to do address things before the blood is spilled. This is up and down our education and law enforcement systems.

 

3. Boys need safe environments to fight and let out their physical aggression. Young men involved in physically violent sports like football, wrestling, karate, etc. typically do not become mass murderers. I feel like our present culture is trying to take the fight out of our boys, but it's still hard-wired into them. Where no healthy outlets for this natural aggression exist, unhealthy ones will take their place. We need to stop shaming our boys and applying negative labels to boys that have a strong urge to fight. We need to guide and encourage them to find a healthy outlet, not tell them they're broken or bad.

 

4. The role of pharmaceutical drugs in mass shootings needs to be thoroughly investigated. It's too common of a theme to be ignored as a potential factor. Too many of our kids are getting drugged up instead of getting the care they really need. Right on the labels of these mood-altering drugs are side effects like "Hallucinations- loss of contact with reality." and "Suicidal thoughts." Yet we don't immediately ask about the prescriptions these kids are on, instead focusing on what kind of gun they used.

 

5. Training kids to huddle together as stationary targets on the ground, HAS TO STOP. It's stupid and getting our kids killed in greater numbers during these events. If they can't get in a secured room separated from the shooter, they need to run or fight, period. Get out the window or tackle the shooter etc are all way better things to teach. There are great programs to better train our kids on how to react to this threat.

 

6. Empower and encourage teachers and school administrators to have a plan, have the support of the district, and secure their classrooms the way they're comfortable with. Too many wonderful teachers with hearts of lions for protecting their kids are fearful bringing up their desires to their bosses whom will point to policy and liability concerns over common-sense solutions the teacher needs and wants. Teachers, if you don't get the support you need, do what you need to do anyways quietly. Damn the system. Keep our kids safe. There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer here, but all kinds of things could help like: ways to block/harden doors, weapons (gun or non-gun) to have a fighting chance if a shooter makes it through the door, and additional escape options like rope ladders for 2nd story windows teachers can deploy, etc. We can't have a cop everywhere and even if we do, there's no guarantee they won't be taking their sweet time outside like the Parkland SRO did while your class is in the crosshairs. Teachers are right there and the first line of defense and they need to think about it and take it seriously and not get in trouble if they do.

 

7. Finally, and most importantly, we need to improve the culture of our nation and our schools. We need to value human life highly. We need love. We need kindness. We need compassion. We need to look for the kids that are becoming isolated and need help and go help them. We need more than just anger at what's wrong, we need to celebrate the good stories and champions of kindness. Kids that care for one another don't kill each other. We need to touch the hearts of kids and train them up in morality and virtue- not just pack their heads full of information. This is exactly what we focused on when I worked for Rachel's Challenge, one of the top anti-violence programs in the country, and we saw tons of lives saved by changing the culture of schools from the inside out. (would-be-shooters with kill lists turning themselves in, gang members laying down their colors, suicides planned for that night canceled, etc.) Invite them to your school as a great way to start this cultural transformation.

[greg1647545532]

I think anyone proposing any of those things as the reason for school shootings needs to explain, with data, how America is different from all of the countries where this doesn't happen regularly.

[RedRocket1647545505]

with data, how America is different from all of the countries where this doesn't happen regularly.

 

http://image.pennlive.com/home/penn-media/width600/img/daily-buzz/photo/2018/01/12/tide-pod-challenge-has-teens-popping-poisonous-laundry-pods-in-their-mouthsjpg-a409c4cfc605f538.jpg

 

:gabe:

Edited February 25, 2018 by RedRocket

[TTQ B4U]

I think anyone proposing any of those things as the reason for school shootings needs to explain, with data, how America is different from all of the countries where this doesn't happen regularly.

 

I don't believe any of them share a history like ours where we fought for their country like we did. I also don't believe they included any type of 2A for their people.

 

In all honesty, the 2A is important to me and I won't trade it for the lives lost here or in the next shooting. Way too many millions before them also died for all the things that our constitution stands for to just give it away or let people too lazy to fix the real problem chip away at my rights.

 

Anyone calling for a repeal of the 2A or for severe infringement should move to the UK or elsewhere.

[greg1647545532]

I don't believe any of them share a history like ours where we fought for their country like we did.

 

This is a joke, right?

 

Way too many millions before them also died for all the things that our constitution stands for to just give it away or let people too lazy to fix the real problem chip away at my rights.

 

Whatever this real problem is, why don't any other countries seem to have it?

 

 

I think your post answers the question -- America isn't unique in any way except the 2nd amendment and an abundance of guns.

[xlr8tn]

If I were to suggest one thing is every kid needs to go hunting. Shooting someone on a video game is one thing but to take a life, any life, is a huge thing and definitely gives you a greater appreciation for life and the gravity of taking one.

[RedRocket1647545505]

America isn't unique in any way except the 2nd amendment and an abundance of guns.

 

That's the only way we're different?

[gillbot]

I'm not against arming teachers but IMO just add a few armed police or private security team to the mix. Staffing is important and expensive, but the schools budgets are fucked up and due for an overhaul as it is. I'm tired of hearing the statment that gun people value guns more than kids, so let's flip it on them and see if they value kids lives more than money or the effort to save some elsewhere to put it here. We don't need as many State Troopers as I see on I-71 as we have generating money off the backs of working people. I think the sheriffs and local PD's can cover my ass speeding just fine.

 

My opinion is based on the fact that most shooters seem to die or care little if they do. I think that's a fair statement so let that be done by a pro. My son's school in Dublin has 4 uniformed cops. They don't walk around with long guns but I was surprised to see one is a K9 unit and the at lease another I saw was clearly armed with multiple hand guns and enough magazines to go to battle. I think the visible presence is more than intimidating. My son is fine and even he said the bad-kids in school don't fuck around with other kids as the cops are on scene too fast and mean business. Their vehicles are right out front and one out back too.

 

Let a pro do their job as its worth the money. I'm not saying not to CHL Holders in the classroom but I do strongly feel we can come up with budget to do this. This is a great example of why we need to focus on AMERICANS FIRST and stop fucking around providing shelter, benefits and resources on those that should not be here. If someone over stays their visa or walks in then kick them the fuck out immediately and don't waste money on the issue. We as a country need to see funding related to that bullshit is instead spent on our needs.

 

This....

 

I have no problem paying more for security at school but many others don’t feel that same sentiment.

[BStowers023]

This is a joke, right?

 

 

 

Whatever this real problem is, why don't any other countries seem to have it?

 

 

I think your post answers the question -- America isn't unique in any way except the 2nd amendment and an abundance of guns.

 

 

So are you suggesting that guns are the issue here?

[TTQ B4U]

This is a joke, right?

 

anyone else have a 2A like ours? any other country have a culture and history like ours which includes such a right?

 

 

 

Whatever this real problem is, why don't any other countries seem to have it? I think your post answers the question -- America isn't unique in any way except the 2nd amendment and an abundance of guns.

true and those other countries don't celebrate the same freedoms as us. The US is about the most free country one can live in and enjoy all that we have to offer.

 

the real problem isn't guns and the cost of lives per year in events like this are perhaps the cost we pay to have the freedoms and life we do have. I'm okay with it as other countries have people die too. Life sucks at times but I'll take my right and your right to have access to weapons as we do regardless of the cost we are paying. We don't have to sacrifice that right to fix the problem and everyone knows it. The solution just doesn't fit the agenda that they want which is to remove guns from our society. Sorry but I don't WANT to be LIKE those other countries. Again, people who don't like our 2A should get the fuck out and move to the UK or elsewhere as you're no longer looking to be a true American.

[greg1647545532]

So are you suggesting that guns are the issue here?

 

Maybe unfettered access to them. Weren't you saying that Nikolas Cruz shouldn't have been able to get an AR-15 or something?

 

 

You may be too young to remember, but when right-wing extremists blew up a federal building in Oklahoma city and murdered a bunch of children with fertilizer, politicians pushed for and succeeded in limiting access to large quantities of said fertilizer. Nobody went around saying, "Hur hur, politicians are blaming fertilizer for this bombing, don't they know that inanimate piles of plant food never hurt anybody by themselves? They should focus on the real problem, people." This semantic bullshit about guns is tiring.

[BStowers023]

Maybe unfettered access to them. Weren't you saying that Nikolas Cruz shouldn't have been able to get an AR-15 or something?

 

 

You may be too young to remember, but when right-wing extremists blew up a federal building in Oklahoma city and murdered a bunch of children with fertilizer, politicians pushed for and succeeded in limiting access to large quantities of said fertilizer. Nobody went around saying, "Hur hur, politicians are blaming fertilizer for this bombing, don't they know that inanimate piles of plant food never hurt anybody by themselves? They should focus on the real problem, people." This semantic bullshit about guns is tiring.

 

Then wtf did you mean by this? Having a lot of guns is different than not allowing people with mental illnesses to easily obtain them. We wouldn't argue semantics if you didn't beat around the bush with every god damn argument you make

 

 

America isn't unique in any way except the 2nd amendment and an abundance of guns.