GM shutting 5 plants in North America

[Geeto67]

There is a lot of blame being placed on the UAW, but really GM made those deals. There are plenty of instances where GM executives created things like the Jobs bank because they didn't think it through. For those who don't know the Jobs bank (where a laid off worker could get 95% of his wages sitting around) was the creation of GM executives who thought they would never have to use it and weren't too careful about running the numbers - the UAW agreed to it because they saw it as GM giving them free money. A lot of GM'a negotiations are like that - GM proposing some alternative item for negotiation with the union that blows up in their faces. Roger Smith, Bob Stempel, and Rick Wagoner each did damage to GM tht would take decades to undo. The damage Smith did in the 1980's was still being felt in 2009 when the bailout happened.

 

Let's not rush to blame the UAW workers who are the blue collar backbone of america, or the semi fictional boogeyman of the lawsuit, when in fact GM has had literally some of the worst executives in the auto industry making some really dumb decisions. Ford, Chrysler, BMW, and Mercedes all have unions in their houses and they don't have near the problems GM has.

 

 

But these plants closing aren't about union wages - they are about products that aren't selling. GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc...are all pivoting because people are not buying sedans and compacts. in GM's case, the plants they are closing aren't able to make anything else that GM is making right now, and GM is getting rid of unprofitable low volume products anyway. All the automakers are doing this, but GM is the biggest so when it takes a proactive approach like this it makes news.

 

Did they really pay back the bailout? Thought I saw that somewhere.

 

Yes and no....sort of....In 2010, GM paid back the loan portion of the Bailout with interest ahead of schedule. However, the bailout included a loan and a stock purchase, and in selling off the stock, the government took a loss selling the shares for less than what they paid for them. They also forgave an approx $800m loan the government gave GM back as part of the initial bankruptcy filing before the new loan was given.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Geeto67

[TTQ B4U]

Sadly I think the Blackwing is awesome. 550 HP and 627 lb-ft of torque for the CT6-V

 

 

Love it and as I get older I'd seriously love driving one. The CUE System still sucks donkey balls though. Would make a great lease/test drive for a few three years though and who knows...that shit might actually hold it's value like the CTS-V's currently have done. I've been leaning towards my next car being a larger boat that goes like Hell but cruises like Heaven.

[zeitgeist57]

 

Camaro: 2016 - 72,705; 2017 - 67,940

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/01/chevrolet-camaro-sales-numbers-figures-results-december-2017/

 

Mustang: 2016 - 105,932; 2017 - 81,866

http://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-motor-company-sales-numbers/ford-sales-numbers/ford-mustang-sales-numbers/

 

My bad...

I thought I read that somewhere about the Mustang-bangin' sales. Still, scoreboard looks like a "W" to me.

 

Camero LOL:

- Everyone loves the Corvair UH OH SOMEONE QUICK REBODY A FALCON TO COMPETE WITH THIS MOOSTANG

- We're going to stop producing in 2003. OOPS MUSTANG IS STILL GOING FIRE UP PRODUCTION.

- We've got a V6 and V8 UH OH WE GOTTA DO A TRUBOE-4 CYL LIKE MUSTANG

- This catfish front end looks awesome UH OH GOTTA GO ALL RETRO LIKE THE MUSTANG WHO LIKES TO DRIVE WHILE LOOKING THROUGH A MAILSLOOT??!?!?

 

Camero, LOL.

 

At least FCA isn't this product-stupid...look at the Challenger. Sales numbers are down, but when you have a 10+ year old proven platform that has gone from 300-707+hp, just keep building it. Save hundreds of millions in development costs, keep the marketing dollhairs flowing, and you'll have a profitable platform for years.

Edited November 27, 2018 by zeitgeist57

[Geeto67]

https://jalopnik.com/politicians-are-real-mad-at-gm-for-slashing-jobs-after-1830676886

 

...Ohio Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown, tweeted that though GM had “reaped a massive tax break” last year, it still “failed to invest that money in American jobs.” He called the decision “corporate greed at its worst.”

 

Democratic Representative Tim Ryan, whose district includes the Lordstown plant, wants congressional hearings on how GM spent the tax cut money.

 

And Ohio Republican Senator Rob Portman (who, as Bloomberg points out, helped GM receive those corporate tax cuts last year), said, “I am deeply frustrated with General Motors’ decision.”

[Otis Nice]

- This catfish front end looks awesome UH OH GOTTA GO ALL RETRO LIKE THE MUSTANG WHO LIKES TO DRIVE WHILE LOOKING THROUGH A MAILSLOOT??!?!?

 

...in for mail sloots.

[10phone2]

https://jalopnik.com/politicians-are-real-mad-at-gm-for-slashing-jobs-after-1830676886

 

not a bad move on his part. The amount of money that companies received via the tax cuts versus payouts to employees was likely pennies on the dollar.

[TTQ B4U]

I've been leaning towards my next car being a larger boat that goes like Hell but cruises like Heaven.

 

 

Found another SUV worth looking at. 600+lbs of torque should feel good around town. Go Ford.

 

[SpaceGhost]

Found another SUV worth looking at. 600+lbs of torque should feel good around town. Go Ford.

 

 

Good lord that SUV has to be north of $70k though. The 450 lb ft of torque in the EcoDiesel Jeep is plenty around town. I really like the Jeep, it’s been a good vehicle despite a couple of repairs.

[Geeto67]

not a bad move on his part. The amount of money that companies received via the tax cuts versus payouts to employees was likely pennies on the dollar.

 

we will find out soon, I can't imagine someone isn't going to look into it and being a publicly traded company that just released a 3rd quarter report the information is available. I will say this, something that isn't getting as much airplay is that GM tried to offer voluntary "buyouts" to employees to try and get costs down...:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/31/business/gm-buyouts/index.html

 

...And it probably used the tax money savings to do that. Now, it was offered to white collar employees (i.e. high salary) with 12 years with the company, which still accounted for 18,000 employees - but the take rate on the voluntary buyout was very low which lead to the plant closings.

 

As much as it sucks, and as much as I am literally heartbroken for the workers losing their job right before xmas, I have to find a little silver lining in that at least GM is being forward thinking. Old GM would barrel head first into a projected recession with assembly lines blazing, and then take a huge loss and discount a lot of crappy cars to move inventory, all while paying executive bonuses and doing massive layoffs. At least this "new" GM is trying to move with the market and be proactive.

[DKilbourne]

The amount of talk around work about the Warren, Ohio site closing is almost annoying. There are a number of people here that live in the Youngstown area though.

Heard someone saying that CNN was on site for interviews. Overpaid doesnt begin to describe the autoworkers wages. Good for them, but $54/hour?....jesus. Not too many people that I know that pull that much.

Still sucks to see large sites shut down, but it makes sense financially.

[Geeto67]

Overpaid doesnt begin to describe the autoworkers wages. Good for them, but $54/hour?....jesus. Not too many people that I know that pull that much.

Still sucks to see large sites shut down, but it makes sense financially.

 

Now hang on....$54 per hour is when your factor in the cost of benefits like health insurance, and benefits which not every employee gets. In reality the average GM hourly worker makes $28 per hour - At toyota, a non union shop, they make about $25 per hour. When you factor in benefits then you see $54 per hour but at toyota that's still $47 - so not much difference. Something GM has to pay but Toyota and other companies don't are health benefits for retirees. GM has a huge population of retirees whereas toyota doesn't - and the $17 per hour cost of healthcare paid by GM after you retire is often factored into the hourly wage as well, which is why you sometimes see detroit hourly wages at $71.

 

https://www.forbes.com/2008/12/04/detroit-labor-uaw-biz-manufacturing-cz_jm_1205union.html#408c6fec1b5e

[zeitgeist57]

An additional piece of perspective that would be good to have: Chevy Cruze sales have been falling for some time. They were only operating one shift with 1,400 workers, considering it used to run 2-3 shifts.

 

Also, GM still owns the factories so they will get mothballed. Could be brought back up when people are clamoring for smaller, more efficient cars at the next economic downturn...oh wait...those are already being made by GM in China/Mexico

 

Sadly, I heard Lordstown got $3MM/year in employee income taxes and the school district received $800,000/yr from GM...10-20% of both budgets. It's definitely an economic hit, let alone all the other businesses and Tier 1/2 suppliers that will be affected in each market.

 

Sucks. No amount of Trumpy-hope could've stopped the global economic pressures facing the U.S. automotive industry.

[El Karacho1647545492]

But with the economy being the best it's ever been I'm sure those folks will have no problem finding good jobs and maintaining stability. After all, they've surely been squirreling away the extra money from their paychecks from the recent tax cuts.

 

 

Really they should be thanking GM for freeing them from the shackles of factory wage slavery.

[CRed05]

I love the smell of capitalism in the morning.

 

Confucius says, make shitty car and soon you'll be closing factory.

[TTQ B4U]

Good lord that SUV has to be north of $70k though. The 450 lb ft of torque in the EcoDiesel Jeep is plenty around town. I really like the Jeep, it’s been a good vehicle despite a couple of repairs.

 

 

Perhaps but given where it sits price wise for what you get it's damn nice. Factor in they typically lease out extremely well and better than the competition in most cases the value is strong. The level of refinement of today's Lincolns is on-par if not better in some ways than Mercedes. I don't say that lightly either since my wife has had one in the past and loved it. So far the best part about my wife's Lincoln has bee the service level and customer support.

[Geeto67]

I love the smell of capitalism in the morning.

 

Confucius says, make shitty car and soon you'll be closing factory.

 

Today I learned: all sedans are shitty cars.

 

Ford axed almost all their sedans, and Toyota ramped down production of all it's sedans, including those built in the US. Ford cut their staff in Sonora, Mexico down to two shifts and plans to cut it down further once they stop making fusions after 2019. But fuck mexico, amirite?

[CRed05]

Today I learned: all sedans are shitty cars

 

There are 2 fads/trends that can't die fast enough.

 

1. Everyone wanting an "SUV" even if it has less "sport" or "utility" than a sedan.

2. Kids doing Fortnight dances.

[zeitgeist57]

Is the machine a bad product, just because people aren't buying it?

 

Hot take: Sedans and small cars are GREAT vehicles...people are the problem.

 

If state/local governments want to shore up budgetary shortfalls, they should make an "SUV tax".

[Geeto67]

There are 2 fads/trends that can't die fast enough.

 

1. Everyone wanting an "SUV" even if it has less "sport" or "utility" than a sedan.

2. Kids doing Fortnight dances.

 

I agree...but I have to admit, after driving to texas in my sedan with the family, I was considering an SUV for the space (and because fuck minivans). Then I remembered they don't make any stick SUVs and was immediately cured of that notion.

 

 

Stop hating on the young....fortnight dances aren't worse than the macarena.

[CRed05]

I agree...but I have to admit, after driving to texas in my sedan with the family, I was considering an SUV for the space (and because fuck minivans). Then I remembered they don't make any stick SUVs and was immediately cured of that notion.

 

SUV's have their place and purpose. Nothing like a nice, large, go-anywhere SUV. Then there's RAV4's, CR-V's and whatever a Kia Soul is...crossovers I guess. Disgusting.

 

 

Stop hating on the young....fortnight dances aren't worse than the macarena.

 

They're both bad. I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I did the macarena. I thought it was great that kids started taking dental health seriously...until I witnessed a kids birthday party and they were all "flossing". Disgusting.

[Geeto67]

SUV's have their place and purpose. Nothing like a nice, large, go-anywhere SUV. Then there's RAV4's, CR-V's and whatever a Kia Soul is...crossovers I guess. Disgusting.

 

and most on the market are nothing like a go-anywhere SUV.

 

Seriously, they killed off the FJ, the Xterra, and the s-series blazer. Jeep Wrangler unlimtied is too small to be a decent road trip hauler, Cherokee is a joke, and the tahoe is a bloated overpriced version of it's former self. cant' get a land cruiser in stick anymore. New bronco is only going to be as good as the old expedition now that the expedition is almost as big as an excursion.

 

 

 

They're both bad. I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I did the macarena. I thought it was great that kids started taking dental health seriously...until I witnessed a kids birthday party and they were all "flossing". Disgusting.

 

bah humbug

 

I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I did the macarena

I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I was voguing

I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I danced to disco

I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I did the Watusi

I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I did the hand jive

I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I did the east coast swing

I believe I would've gotten my ass kicked by my friends if I did the Charleston.

 

It's all just youth culture hatred. There are no hipsters, hippies, disco ducks, etc...It's all just young people and people who fear young people and don't understand their silly fun.

[CRed05]

and most on the market are nothing like a go-anywhere SUV.

 

Seriously, they killed off the FJ, the Xterra, and the s-series blazer. Jeep Wrangler unlimtied is too small to be a decent road trip hauler, Cherokee is a joke, and the tahoe is a bloated overpriced version of it's former self. cant' get a land cruiser in stick anymore. New bronco is only going to be as good as the old expedition now that the expedition is almost as big as an excursion.

 

For me it's the new Discovery. Went form handsome and rugged to...

 

[Geeto67]

discovery went full soft roader for sure. you never go full soft roader.

 

They were available in stick until 1997 I think. everyone I knew who had one loved theirs. I think in the UK they were available stick until 2010.

[jerrodh]

Now hang on....$54 per hour is when your factor in the cost of benefits like health insurance, and benefits which not every employee gets. In reality the average GM hourly worker makes $28 per hour - At toyota, a non union shop, they make about $25 per hour. When you factor in benefits then you see $54 per hour but at toyota that's still $47 - so not much difference. Something GM has to pay but Toyota and other companies don't are health benefits for retirees. GM has a huge population of retirees whereas toyota doesn't - and the $17 per hour cost of healthcare paid by GM after you retire is often factored into the hourly wage as well, which is why you sometimes see detroit hourly wages at $71.

 

https://www.forbes.com/2008/12/04/detroit-labor-uaw-biz-manufacturing-cz_jm_1205union.html#408c6fec1b5e

 

 

I'm going to start with you clearly know more about this than me but...

 

$7.00 per hour difference between Toyota & GM.

 

$7.00 x 40 (I'm not even factoring in the overtime they probably all get).

= 280 x 52 (weeks) = 14,560

x1500 workers

 

= $21,840,000 difference per year... Thats a huge difference... Just saying.

 

The state of the art paint shop they put in there in recent years cost 20mil... They are spending more than that by a lot (once you factor overtime) per year per employee.

[Robochan]

Shit be changing yo. Never got a call back when I applied for blockbuster, radio shack, Marion power shovel and now GM....