Kick In The Clutch

[wagner]

I know there are a lot of people who still have a tranny fetish and there's nothing wrong with playing with sticks (I have a stick shift car currently, but dude drops some facts in here.

 

At an industry event I was in a meeting with a clutch company and even they have seen the writing on the wall for years and started a pivot towards "driveline parts".

 

 

 

 

[Richard Cranium]

I love driving a manual, my daily is a manual. These days I believe the automatics are better transmissions, but I would still drive a manual. I almost converted my 94 Impala to a manual.

 

I wonder if that is the direction things will go. Will the manufacturers stop making cars with manuals, and it will be up to the aftermarket to start generating all the swap parts?

[Fiji ST]

There's two points to consider:

 

1. No one cares about driving anymore. It's become a necessary evil for most. People do it out of the need to survive and the less involved they have to be, the better for them. Look at the youth. I can't tell you how many of my younger family members could care less about driving. When I turned 16 in 2000, I couldn't wait to get my license as it meant social freedom. Now, kids can video chat with a small group without leaving their houses. Hell, my wife's younger cousins only got their licenses because their parents got tired of having to drive them everywhere.

 

2. Automatics have gotten A LOT better. There's more gears for efficiency, plus they shift a lot faster and smoother than the old four/five-speeds. Driving my wife's ancient CR-V compared to the CX-5 we're looking at is a night and day difference. Smoother, much quicker to react, no hunting.

 

The end is nigh people, especially with manufacturers pushing forward with automated driving.

[Geeto67]

I wonder if that is the direction things will go. Will the manufacturers stop making cars with manuals, and it will be up to the aftermarket to start generating all the swap parts?

 

 

That's kind of they way things are going now. If you look on youtube, a lot of the regular car tech shows have episodes for manual swaps for cars that were not offered in a manual. Off the top of my head... Tavarsh is putting a manual trans in a Mercedes SL55, Cleetus McFarland did a manual swap (really a whole GT500 drivetrain swap) on a crown victoria, ShopLifeVlogs had a tutorial on how to convert BMW SMG transmissions to full manual transmissions, et al. you can buy whole conversion kits for lots of 60's to 90's cars from companies like american powertrain, modern driveline, Keisler, etc....

 

That covers a lot of the RWD market, but to be honest - a lot of FWD and AWD manual cars are going to go away and never return. Audi doesn't offer the manual trans in the states anymore, and once they stop offering them in europe there aren't going to be any swap parts to make it happen. Personally I want to do an AWD manual swap on the wife's A3, and I am just waiting for the Golf R parts needed to get a little cheaper, but I might not still have the car by the time they do.

[Not Brian]

Not all kids hate driving, and not all new things are way better. My nephew just bought a manual GTI and after a few days said he'll never buy an automatic again. My newer Silverado's 8-speed can be a clunky, confused mess.

[Hwilli1647545487]

I hate that YouTube channel.

[Cordell]

Not all kids hate driving, and not all new things are way better. My nephew just bought a manual GTI and after a few days said he'll never buy an automatic again. My newer Silverado's 8-speed can be a clunky, confused mess.

 

Just wait until the torque converter shudder starts

 

 

Manuals are going away, most Corvettes and Camaros I see now are autos. A good auto trans (mostly) but an auto nonetheless. I’ll just enjoy driving as long as I can, the whole transportation industry is likely to change in my lifetime anyway, time will tell.

[2 Sweet]

Both my vehicles are manuals. My next vehicle will be a manual.

[zeitgeist57]

I don't need the whole world to keep sticks...I just need enough of a take-rate to buy a stick-shift vehicle once every 5-10 years or so. I'll adjust my tastes to accomodate. 2g CTS-V (640hp/6speed), Porsche 911 (always sticking), Mustang, Corvette, BMW, shit...even the Honda Accord is a turbo with a stick.

 

I wonder if that is the direction things will go. Will the manufacturers stop making cars with manuals, and it will be up to the aftermarket to start generating all the swap parts?

 

We're continuing down a golden age of horsepower and engineering:

1) 700hp+ factory powertrains that can accomodate 100k+ miles.

2) Manufacturing technology is only getting better and more accessable: look at home plasma/water cutter tables, and 3D printing technology.

3) Engine management - lots more comfort around tuning.

 

We can only hope that it will be less of a cost for people with a passion for certain platforms to be able to build kits to repower older vehicles and yes, put sticks where the car didn't accomodate them in the first place.

 

I do love the Lincoln Mark V...would love to see someone develop a kit (i.e. 2.7L TT Ecoboost swap) to get much better performance, mileage, reliability and additional smoothness into some of these survivor clunkers from the 70s/80s. L@@K! We've already got Holley Sniper/FiTech kits to put EFI easily into cars/trucks that never had them from the factory, and to do it for less than $2k. That's a huge improvement from even 15-20 years ago. The younger generation might be more interested in older 70s-90s cars if it was easy to 3D print plastic parts that have deteriorated, or bolt-in swap modern powertrains into older stuff.

Edited February 26, 2019 by zeitgeist57

[RyM3rC]

We're continuing down a golden age of horsepower and engineering:

1) 700hp+ factory powertrains that can accomodate 100k+ miles.

2) Manufacturing technology is only getting better and more accessable: look at home plasma/water cutter tables, and 3D printing technology.

 

I'm not convinced new powertrains are better? Hearing about rod bearing issues on new direct injection motors, shitty nav and infotainment systems that don't age well, one-time-use fasteners all over the place.

 

We'll see how well this generation of vehicles age. Could be great, could be crusher-tastic when the electric mandate happens.

[zeitgeist57]

I'm not convinced new powertrains are better? Hearing about rod bearing issues on new direct injection motors, shitty nav and infotainment systems that don't age well, one-time-use fasteners all over the place.

 

We'll see how well this generation of vehicles age. Could be great, could be crusher-tastic when the electric mandate happens.

 

Maybe not ALL the new powertrains are better....but even problems with current/new tech seem to get smoothed out as thousands of them made turn to 10,000s...100,000s over a few years. Then the aftermarket sometimes solves for what the OEM hasn't fixed.

 

I do love Tesla, but we are still at least 15-20 years' away from any meaningful electric mandate. I'm 40, and I wouldn't be surprised if my last car ride (may it be 50 years from now ) is in something at least powered by a gas hybrid, if not still fully powered by gas.

 

Back to sticks: as long as THE_LAST_STICK_SHIFT_CAR_EVER_MADE is still years out, there will be an aftermarket to support it.

[wagner]

If that dumbass AOC has her way she is going to push that big green turd out on us and we'll be walking everywhere :lolguy: :dumb:

[Geeto67]

If that dumbass AOC has her way she is going to push that big green turd out on us and we'll be walking everywhere :lolguy: :dumb:

 

a) take it to the politics thread

 

b) you know how I know you haven't read the GND and are just making stuff up and falling for the GOP propaganda? this----> "and we'll be walking everywhere"

 

there is a lot to critizie the GND about - that it is ambitious, that it makes too many demands on lawmakers who rely on compromise, that it has no clear funding, but talking like it is going to ban cows or the ICE isn't part of that conversation unless you are trying to prove how little you know about it.

[wagner]

a) take it to the politics thread

 

b) you know how I know you haven't read the GND and are just making stuff up and falling for the GOP propaganda? this----> "and we'll be walking everywhere"

 

there is a lot to critizie the GND about - that it is ambitious, that it makes too many demands on lawmakers who rely on compromise, that it has no clear funding, but talking like it is going to ban cows or the ICE isn't part of that conversation unless you are trying to prove how little you know about it.

 

A. It was a joke, like that political thread.

 

B. You make the biggest assumptions on earth and blanket statements to match and it's comical.

[Geeto67]

A. It was a joke, like that political thread.

 

B. You make the biggest assumptions on earth and blanket statements to match and it's comical.

 

I thought it was a requirement of jokes to be funny?

 

what am I assuming? you made the same "joke" everyone else who isn't really saavy on the issue makes. I just call it like I see it.

 

But, whether you intended it or not (and likely you didn't) you do bring up a good point about the drivers of tech in the auto industry. Right now Safety and emissions are the biggest hurdles the manual transmission will face. Subaru's new safety system Eyesight isn't compatible with it's manual trans offerings and if it continues to press forward it may drop the manual all together:

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/could-subaru-discontinue-manual-transmissions-in-the-name-of-safety/

 

 

Also, for decades the manual transmission was the ecological leader in this field because it had better fuel mileage, was less expensive to own and maintain, required fewer fluid changes, and generally less maintenance. However, with modern DSG transmissions and tech and an improvement in the quality of manufacturing, the manual is losing ground on fuel economy and reliability. Sure there is still the weight penalty, and the added cost, but those aren't environmental issues, and can be mitigated by other changes elsewhere in the car. Also hybrid tech seems to favor the automatic, the only manual hybrid in recent memory being the CRZ from honda.

 

 

https://slate.com/technology/2007/10/are-manual-transmissions-really-that-much-better-for-the-environment.html

[wagner]

I thought it was a requirement of jokes to be funny?

 

what am I assuming? you made the same "joke" everyone else who isn't really saavy on the issue makes. I just call it like I see it.

 

But, whether you intended it or not (and likely you didn't) you do bring up a good point about the drivers of tech in the auto industry. Right now Safety and emissions are the biggest hurdles the manual transmission will face. Subaru's new safety system Eyesight isn't compatible with it's manual trans offerings and if it continues to press forward it may drop the manual all together:

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/could-subaru-discontinue-manual-transmissions-in-the-name-of-safety/

 

 

Also, for decades the manual transmission was the ecological leader in this field because it had better fuel mileage, was less expensive to own and maintain, required fewer fluid changes, and generally less maintenance. However, with modern DSG transmissions and tech and an improvement in the quality of manufacturing, the manual is losing ground on fuel economy and reliability. Sure there is still the weight penalty, and the added cost, but those aren't environmental issues, and can be mitigated by other changes elsewhere in the car. Also hybrid tech seems to favor the automatic, the only manual hybrid in recent memory being the CRZ from honda.

 

 

https://slate.com/technology/2007/10/are-manual-transmissions-really-that-much-better-for-the-environment.html

 

I'll spell it out for you in the future since we all can't operate on your level

[zeitgeist57]

Boy, Kerry knows how to suck the oxygen out of a car forum conversation.

[Geeto67]

Boy, Kerry knows how to suck the oxygen out of a car forum conversation.

 

It's a gift.

 

but then again, I wasn't the one who dropped the big steamy political turd in the punch bowl, I'm just the guy complaining about the taste of the punch.

[Aaron]

Auto lol

[Aaron]

Geetard says in every thread, "It's not me, its you."

[zeitgeist57]

It's a gift.

 

but then again, I wasn't the one who dropped the big steamy political turd in the punch bowl, I'm just the guy complaining about the taste of the punch.

 

Using your analogy, I'd say you love the taste of poop. You were extremely quick to ignore the conversation and obvious sarcasm to run up to the refreshment table, take a big ladle-full, and swig it down.

[Robochan]

Geeto LOL

Automatics LOL

[KentStateTsi]

Just traded my dps6 focus of five years. If you ever need to change your opinion of automatics.....drive one of those.

[Draco-REX]

I can live with DCTs. If the new performance torque converter transmissions are as DCT-like as the reviews say, then I could live with them too. But I'm not a fan of these crazy-high gear counts. I manually shift my Evo SST to maintain my sanity. I don't think I'd enjoy manually shifting through 10 gears. Ultimately, I'll do what I can to keep a stick shift in my stable, and preferably in my daily.

 

Once I saw that automatics had become more efficient and quicker than manuals, I knew the manual transmission was on the way out. It sucks, but there's really no reason for manufacturers to continue supplying them in anything but the cheapest of the cheap.

[cruizin01]

I can see myself being ok with an auto for my next daily. All my DD's have been manuals for the last 21'ish years. I think as I get older, the traffic gets heavier and these autos get better it makes o.k sense.

 

My wifes X3 has a ZF 8 speed and its excellent. The engine in front of it is a bit wheezy but her previous X1 had a 2L turbo with the same trans and it was a fun little car. So I think it depends on what the auto is paired with and what its in along with the programming. I toO thought 8 speeds was overkill until I drove them. The 10 speed in the mustang might be great as well but the logic is so bad I wouldn't ever consider it even though I loved the rest of the car.