CoronaVirus

[Smokey]

Emails out to participants and instructors as well as rennlist. NORPCA, MORPCA, and NNJRPCA all cancelled their May Mid Ohio events.

[greg1647545532]

I wonder if that was a PCA decision. Seems like Mid-Ohio itself is still under the impression that they can open. Which... I don't get. I sat down tonight and looked at the "Responsible Reopen" website, specifically continued business closures:

 

Entertainment/recreation/gymnasium sites.

 

Includes, but is not limited to:

 

All places of public amusement, whether indoors or outdoors, such as:

 

- Laser tag facilities, roller skating rinks, ice skating rinks, arcades, indoor miniature golf facilities, bowling alleys, indoor trampoline parks, indoor water parks, arcades, and adult and child skill or chance game facilities remain closed.

 

- Gambling industries.

 

- Auditoriums, stadiums, arenas.

 

- Movie theatres, performance theatres, and concert and music halls

 

- Public recreation centers and indoor sports facilities.

 

- Parades, fairs, festivals, and carnivals.

 

- Amusement parks, theme parks, outdoor water parks, children's play centers, playgrounds, and funplexes.

 

- Aquariums, zoos, museums, historical sites, and similar institutions.

 

- Country clubs and social clubs.

 

- Spectator sports, recreational sports tournaments and organized recreational sports leagues.

 

- Health clubs, fitness centers, workout facilities, gyms, and yoga studios.

 

- Swimming pools, whether public or private, except swimming pools for single households.

 

- Residential and day camps.

 

- Campgrounds, including recreational camps and recreational vehicle (RV) parks.

 

(Excludes people living in campground RVs with no other viable place of residence.

 

Excludes people living in cabins, mobile homes, or other fixed structures that are meant for single families and where preexisting residential activity already has been established. (E.g., for people who have part-time preestablished residences at campgrounds for the summer months.))

 

I don't know which one of those a private racetrack falls under but they certainly should not be opening on May 12th. Anyway, based on that guidance and DeWine extending the stay-at-home order today indefinitely, I emailed Auto Interests and told them I wouldn't be attending on the 18th. Frankly it'd be a violation of the order if I did.

 

NASA is a bit trickier for me, I'm hoping they cancel that one themselves, but ultimately the same decision would apply.

[oh8sti]

Seems like there's lotta fuckery going on with the covid numbers and how its coded when they someone comes into the hospital. Regardless of what the actual sickness/death is. Hospitals seem to get more federal dollars if they log as many patients and deaths from covid when many are really from other causes that get lumped in with covid in the yearly average.

 

Seems like we are being had on multiple levels here. I hope they figure this out and people dont go full civil war on the nanny states.

[wagner]

Seems like there's lotta fuckery going on with the covid numbers and how its coded when they someone comes into the hospital. Regardless of what the actual sickness/death is. Hospitals seem to get more federal dollars if they log as many patients and deaths from covid when many are really from other causes that get lumped in with covid in the yearly average.

 

Seems like we are being had on multiple levels here. I hope they figure this out and people dont go full civil war on the nanny states.

 

I've been trying to look at this from a logical level. We know there is a virus, it makes people sick, and some of those people die.

 

Here's what I don't understand. So all of the sudden our food supply chain is in "grave danger" because these meat processing plants are about to shut down, countless animals have to be killed and not used, just end of the world type stuff.

 

Why are these meat proccessing plants seeing these massive spikes in case numbers when we aren't seeing this with places that are open to the public like a grocery store or home improvement story?

 

One would think that since these stores are staffed by people who have been exposed to so many other people they would be ravaged by COVID and forced to shut down. I've only seen a couple of stories on the news where grocery store workers habe come down with it.

 

Based on general logic you would think that if you worked at a job where you were exposed to a large amount of people from the general public you would be at a higher risk.

 

It's almost like I've seen this situation before...

 

[Mallard]

There was an interesting article on NYT showing how deaths this year compare to the previous 5 years, as an estimate of the impact of COVID-19, and it shows it's underreported. At the very least it should show you why hospitals are overwhelmed. Screen shot of the charts below.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[gillbot]

Have you ever been to a meat packing plant? They are not a place you want to be, period.

[greg1647545532]

Seems like there's lotta fuckery going on with the covid numbers and how its coded when they someone comes into the hospital. Regardless of what the actual sickness/death is. Hospitals seem to get more federal dollars if they log as many patients and deaths from covid when many are really from other causes that get lumped in with covid in the yearly average.

 

This is straight up CT nonsense. Don't believe the bodies you see! Don't believe the overwhelmed hospitals you see! Don't believe the PPE shortages you see! Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes!

 

Remember when I said some of you are terrible skeptics? Let me help you out. If COVID-19 patients cost more money -- say they required more staff, or more PPE, or more expensive treatments -- then it would make sense that hospitals get more money from medicare for them. And we know all of those things to be true. So there's a logical explanation. But also, we've seen in this thread that a lot of medical staff are out of work. That's because DeWine shut down all non-essential medical procedures. Hospitals are BLEEDING right now, which would be another logical reason for them to get more money from medicare for COVID patients. It's a fucking bailout, to keep them afloat and encourage them not to shut down in the middle of a pandemic.

 

So the CT is that evil hospital administrators are smart enough to make up a pandemic in order to get more money, but too dumb to shut the whole thing down when it completely backfires and they don't make more money.

 

But let's take a step back and look at "the media" and where this CT came from. Scott Jensen, Minnesota Senator ® and actual medical doctor went on Laura Ingraham's show a few weeks ago and "blasted" the then new CDC guidelines that allowed hospitals to count COVID-19 deaths without a test -- guidelines that were widely publicized, publicly implemented here in Ohio, and make perfect sense given the lack of tests and the obviousness of the cases involved.

 

What a scandal! Hospitals now have free reign to overstate COVID patients! You know you can trust him because he's a Republican, and he's on Fox News and not some liberal bullshit show. Conservative news certainly trust him, as this segment spread like wildfire. Gateway Pundit covered it 4 times!

 

But the thing is, this is all hypothetical -- there's 0 evidence that anyone is inflating anything. And in fact, Scott Jensen, the man you can trust, says:

 

Jensen said he thinks the overall number of COVID-19 cases have been undercounted based on limitations in the number of tests available.

 

So there you have it. Right from the trusted source. COVID-19 deaths are being incorrectly reported, but in the exact opposite way that you want them to be. There are MORE than being reported. And after being raked over the coals, Scott Jensen has spent the last several weeks going back and forth between furious backpedaling and stoking rebellion. I never said hospitals WERE inflating the numbers, he says to people angry at him for spreading fear and misinformation, I just said they COULD be, he says to drooling morons who are looking for anything to support what they want to believe.

 

Hope that helps you be a better skeptic in the future.

[10phone2]

cliffnotes... greg mad at everyone.

[zeitgeist57]

That shortage of meat processing employees...i understand, but damn...

 

If you're going to kill that many cows, I've got an 8ft bed on my truck...just tell me where I need to go and I'll take a cow carcass home. I'm no butcher, but I can figure out how to cut away some of the good stuff and dump the rest at SWACO

[greg1647545532]

cliffnotes... greg mad at everyone.

 

I'm just trying to help people understand the world better, I'm not mad about anything. Was that seriously your takeaway?

 

Do you think COVID-19 cases are being overcounted to scam medicare?

 

eta: If there's one thing this board really believes in, it's that the media is bad. Well here you go, a great, glaring example of Fox News spreading misinformation. You're welcome.

[Fiji ST]

That shortage of meat processing employees...i understand, but damn...

 

If you're going to kill that many cows, I've got an 8ft bed on my truck...just tell me where I need to go and I'll take a cow carcass home. I'm no butcher, but I can figure out how to cut away some of the good stuff and dump the rest at SWACO

 

I've got a guy here at work that processes his own deers when he gets one. I wonder if he would do a cow for me?

[zeitgeist57]

Apparently Mitch McConnell doesn't think infrastructure investment is an important part of this economic recovery from COVID. Gaslighters gon' gaslight.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampesek/2020/05/01/china-spends-600-billion-to-trump-americas-economy/#2f0eaa975872

 

There goes China, proving to the world who's going to dominate industrial capacity and capability for the next 25 years. We're barrelling towards 30 Trillion in debt and China will come out stronger.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Seems like there's lotta fuckery going on with the covid numbers and how its coded when they someone comes into the hospital. Regardless of what the actual sickness/death is. Hospitals seem to get more federal dollars if they log as many patients and deaths from covid when many are really from other causes that get lumped in with covid in the yearly average.

 

Seems like we are being had on multiple levels here. I hope they figure this out and people dont go full civil war on the nanny states.

 

This isn't entirely true. In fact, most of it isn't. It's usually not one specific thing that kills someone. It's usually a cascade of problems stemming from something else. If someone comes in with respiratory issues, tests positive for COVID, has a cytokine storm, develops ARDS, sepsis, and finally Multi Organ Dysfunction Syndrome, then dies...what actually killed them? Was it the sepsis? Was it hypoxia? Lactic acidosis? And what caused all that? How would you know?

 

Hospitals code diagnoses as they arise. Cause of death is subjective to some degree. If they test positive for COVID, and the person dies from a cascade of problems that probably were a result of COVID, then why shouldn't they get paid? Can you prove COVID didn't kill them?

 

I'm as quick to criticize hospital administrators as anyone. I work for them so I know what kind of crap they can pull. But fraud probably isn't one of them.

[Versluis]

That shortage of meat processing employees...i understand, but damn...

 

If you're going to kill that many cows, I've got an 8ft bed on my truck...just tell me where I need to go and I'll take a cow carcass home. I'm no butcher, but I can figure out how to cut away some of the good stuff and dump the rest at SWACO

 

A pig farm in Van Wert is letting you come and get a pig at $.50/pound. They are 268 pounds.

[zeitgeist57]

A pig farm in Van Wert is letting you come and get a pig at $.50/pound. They are 268 pounds.

 

HOG ROAST. Cool to know. Any link on that farm and deals? I'm not serious about slaughtering a pig, but it's a very interesting idea as I know hunters/farmers and curious about what it would take to clean a carcass for meat. I've got a chest freezer.

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-01/trump-hails-kushner-s-airlift-but-details-of-sales-are-secret?srnd=premium

 

I made the gaslight comment before, but one thing that bothers me most about Trump's "always-winning" campaign of mis-information is how much he campaigned on Transparency, and Draining The Swamp.

 

I realize this is a crisis, but don't f**king tell me that Trump is any better than every other crooked politician: under-the-table deals that line the pockets of his cronies like Kushner.

[Gergwheel1647545492]

HOG ROAST. Cool to know. Any link on that farm and deals? I'm not serious about slaughtering a pig, but it's a very interesting idea as I know hunters/farmers and curious about what it would take to clean a carcass for meat. I've got a chest freezer.

 

Here is the post he is referring to i believe.

 

http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=675&pictureid=9539

[10phone2]

I'm just trying to help people understand the world better, I'm not mad about anything. Was that seriously your takeaway?

 

Do you think COVID-19 cases are being overcounted to scam medicare?

 

eta: If there's one thing this board really believes in, it's that the media is bad. Well here you go, a great, glaring example of Fox News spreading misinformation. You're welcome.

 

no it wasnt. nothing more than pissing around. what was CT btw?

[10phone2]

This isn't entirely true. In fact, most of it isn't. It's usually not one specific thing that kills someone. It's usually a cascade of problems stemming from something else. If someone comes in with respiratory issues, tests positive for COVID, has a cytokine storm, develops ARDS, sepsis, and finally Multi Organ Dysfunction Syndrome, then dies...what actually killed them? Was it the sepsis? Was it hypoxia? Lactic acidosis? And what caused all that? How would you know?

 

Hospitals code diagnoses as they arise. Cause of death is subjective to some degree. If they test positive for COVID, and the person dies from a cascade of problems that probably were a result of COVID, then why shouldn't they get paid? Can you prove COVID didn't kill them?

 

I'm as quick to criticize hospital administrators as anyone. I work for them so I know what kind of crap they can pull. But fraud probably isn't one of them.

 

so if "you" don't know what killed out of 4 ailments, then why list it as corona?

[RedRocket1647545505]

so if "you" don't know what killed out of 4 ailments, then why list it as corona?

 

It's not. Its coded as one of the diagnoses, which isn't a fib.

[Tractor]

I saw unemployment at 30 million this week. Remember that number never counts accurate either because of all the small businesses, freelancers, 1099s, and under the table work that also fuels the economy.

[greg1647545532]

no it wasnt. nothing more than pissing around. what was CT btw?

 

Conspiracy theory.

[greg1647545532]

so if "you" don't know what killed out of 4 ailments, then why list it as corona?

 

It's not. Its coded as one of the diagnoses, which isn't a fib.

 

This is one of those things where TV and movies have caused people to think the world is more organized than it is.

 

Say a patient is brought in unresponsive with a racing pulse. They suffer a stroke and die. Cause of death = stroke. But then they're tested for drugs and they're high out of their minds on meth. Cause of death = meth overdose. But did the meth cause the stroke? Maybe they would have had that stroke regardless, and the meth was a coincidence. Who knows?! All the doctors know is that there was a stroke, and there was a lot of meth, and so they write both down.

 

Anyone compiling statistics on meth overdoses will include that death in their numbers. And generally the world agrees with that approach -- there's no pro-meth lobby accusing doctors of inflating meth related deaths for personal gain.

[RedRocket1647545505]

This is one of those things where TV and movies have caused people to think the world is more organized than it is.

 

Say a patient is brought in unresponsive with a racing pulse. They suffer a stroke and die. Cause of death = stroke. But then they're tested for drugs and they're high out of their minds on meth. Cause of death = meth overdose. But did the meth cause the stroke? Maybe they would have had that stroke regardless, and the meth was a coincidence. Who knows?! All the doctors know is that there was a stroke, and there was a lot of meth, and so they write both down.

 

Anyone compiling statistics on meth overdoses will include that death in their numbers. And generally the world agrees with that approach -- there's no pro-meth lobby accusing doctors of inflating meth related deaths for personal gain.

 

This. 9/10 times, the cause of death will be 'respiratory failure' or 'sepsis' which are essentially catchall diagnoses. Hospitals aren't reimbursed by CMS based soley on cause of death. Multiple diagnoses are coded using ICD-10 based on how they present.

[supldys]

This is one of those things where TV and movies have caused people to think the world is more organized than it is.

 

Say a patient is brought in unresponsive with a racing pulse. They suffer a stroke and die. Cause of death = stroke. But then they're tested for drugs and they're high out of their minds on meth. Cause of death = meth overdose. But did the meth cause the stroke? Maybe they would have had that stroke regardless, and the meth was a coincidence. Who knows?! All the doctors know is that there was a stroke, and there was a lot of meth, and so they write both down.

 

Anyone compiling statistics on meth overdoses will include that death in their numbers. And generally the world agrees with that approach -- there's no pro-meth lobby accusing doctors of inflating meth related deaths for personal gain.

 

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/21/how-some-southern-california-drug-rehab-centers-exploit-addiction/

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/11/health/prescription-opioid-payments-eprise/index.html

 

Whenever there's a crisis, there's always someone trying to benefit from it. Why would this be any different?

[10phone2]

This is one of those things where TV and movies have caused people to think the world is more organized than it is.

 

Say a patient is brought in unresponsive with a racing pulse. They suffer a stroke and die. Cause of death = stroke. But then they're tested for drugs and they're high out of their minds on meth. Cause of death = meth overdose. But did the meth cause the stroke? Maybe they would have had that stroke regardless, and the meth was a coincidence. Who knows?! All the doctors know is that there was a stroke, and there was a lot of meth, and so they write both down.

 

Anyone compiling statistics on meth overdoses will include that death in their numbers. And generally the world agrees with that approach -- there's no pro-meth lobby accusing doctors of inflating meth related deaths for personal gain.

 

not quite tv and movies. studies to meet statistical guidelines or research article standards to make print are a different thing. thank you for agreeing to the data being "who knows".

 

question for the audience. does any one state or hospital get any financial gain for reporting any death as corona?