Tips for buying an (old) new motorcycle

[greg1647545532]

It seems that a lot of motorcycles languish in dealer showrooms. I'm looking at a certain model that has a few 2019 examples still listed at MSRP. What do dealerships actually expect to get for a "new" bike that's been sitting around for a couple of years?

[Mace1647545504]

I don't know if this helps but they say hd is having problems..you might want to look there.

 

Usually ask has some old models hanging around

 

An lastly, look at the dealership on s high st near 270 on the south side,,they aren't a new bike dealer but have some nice bikes..I forget the name..sorry

[Otis Nice]

Kerry will be able to help on this topic.

[Geeto67]

I've had a lot of conversations with people about this very topic over the years from both sides of the transactions. Here are my thoughts:

 

Buyers tend to think that they can get a good deal on a leftover model that has been languishing on the dealership lot for a year or more. However due to the way floor plan financing works the best deal you can ever expect from a dealer on this bike without any mfg incentive is the wholesale cost and that is it. It is extremely rare that you can convince a dealer to lose money on a bike, and most of the time with a languishing leftover a dealer will be upfront and mark the bike down to their cost. Margins on a lot of bikes are small - like around $2-3k depending on the bike so that's probably the best deal you are going to get $2-3K off. I don't even bother looking at leftovers unless it is a bike I really want and I know there is a mfg incentive.

 

Now, if you can find an incentive for that bike, then great, that can kick the savings up to around $5K. Most incentives however are usually on existing model years to help the inventory clear out. best one I have ever seen was recently on the yamaha scr950 where yamaha dropped the price to $5K for 2017 models and even then Iron pony had 2 languishing on their showroom floor till mid 2020. Do the research because dealers don't always know the incentive on their own bikes, or they don't mark down the price because the don't think the customer will know - but if you find something and walk in the door with the knowledge you can get the best deal.

 

The best deal you can get on a new bike is a late ordered current model year that has end of the year incentives to move it. I literally had this conversation with a ducati dealer a couple weeks ago where she could offer me $3500 off on a new 2020 supersport that was a late delivery, but the identical bike in a 2019 model where the incentives had expired was marked down $1800 and they couldn't go lower. The incentive was a large chunk, but also being a late delivery they hadn't paid off the floor plan on the bike yet, which means they could still pocket a small profit, even at "dealer cost" by not having to pay the interest on the loan to buy the unit from the mfg (Actual cost).

 

Just to add some covid color to this, I know that some dealers have been slow to drop their prices on left overs. The reason being that during 2020 motorcycle production stopped for a while and a lot of orders went unfilled. I spoke to a bmw dealer friend of mine about a month ago and he told me he got all the 2020s he is ever going to get on certain models and doesn't expect any new units till either july 2021 or the 2022 model year roll out. I know some dealers are waiting out the shortage that they see coming in the 2021 riding season, and as such are asking MSRP for their bikes. They have 2 years before the new bike financing won't accept the models as new for most major lenders (I think with Credit unions it's 5 years) so they are playing the long game.

[Otis Nice]

...told ya. `

[RyM3rC]

Iron pony had a bunch of 2017 and 2018 bikes at the start of this year. some were marked down from like $14,500 MSRP to $11,999 just for a sec RIGHT when Covid hit and showrooms started clearing out, and the same 5? bikes they had for over a year were gone within 2 weeks. Annoyingly, I talked to them twice to offer what other dealerships had the same models and years marked down to, but they wouldn't waive certain fees like the others would, so +$1000 compared to California and Maryland. #lowcostofliving #cbusLOL

 

The Columbus market is significantly more expensive than most, last time I was in California I couldn't believe how many cheap bikes, especially premium models, there were.

 

If you have your eyes set on a particular leftover model, check ebay and cycletrader and be prepared to buy and ship from out of state- the deals around here aren't always very competitive. Easy to sort by cheapest in the nation, get the out-the-door price, and compare a few dealers then figure in shipping and done. Easy to get a couple grand+ off, and often in OUR market you can get a new, warrantied bike CHEAPER than derps that got gaped will sell their USED bike for.

[greg1647545532]

All right, thanks for throwing some cold water on my dreams Kerry.

[Mace1647545504]

greg..would that now make it a wet dream.......bwaaaaaaa.. I crack myself up.

 

So is a used bike out of the question??

[Geeto67]

All right, thanks for throwing some cold water on my dreams Kerry.

 

Not trying to discourage you, just pointing out the factors that are involved in how dealers view their inventory.

 

Not saying you can't get a deal, just a better deal is going to be with a bike where the dealer hasn't paid off the full amount of the loan they have to purchase that bike. Personally I think dealer cost is still a good deal - I've bought bikes at dealer cost and never felt I overpaid.

 

That said, dealers don't always act rational. I can't tell you how many dealers I have been in that have had unsold units sit in their warehouses for decades, it's been quite a number over the years. By no rational logic they should have kept these unsold units and dumped them for whatever they could get and freed up the space for a unit that would sell, but for some reason they don't. My favorite was a honda dealer on long island that had a 1989 Hawk GT new in crate. After years of never being able to get $3500 for it (against a $4000 msrp) they sold it for $5K in 2012 to a collector I know. Did they make money? not if you know how inflation or opportunity cost works.

 

what bike are you looking at specifically (year and make/model)? maybe I can help you track down a good deal.

[greg1647545532]

Well I'm somewhat embarrassed to say, but I'm looking at a 2019 Suzuki VanVan 200. I think they're cute. But since it's not a $20,000 bike I don't think there's a lot of margin in them anyway, and from what you said it doesn't sound like dealerships would need to take a loss on them to get them out the door.

[Mace1647545504]

From the pic is it like a honda grommit..or what ever it called?

Don't be embarrassed..I've missed riding so much I've thought seriously about buying a burgman or something simular

[greg1647545532]

A little bit bigger but essentially yeah, it's like a TW200 with classic styling.

[RyM3rC]

The bigger, faster? version of that (tu250x) can barely do freeway speed, sometimes 75 sometimes 85ish (indicated). If you want to get anywhere that requires freeways, not a good idea.

 

if you want an urban, farm, or puttin around the trailer park bike- those are pretty approachable and super simple. Pretty solid motor and great fuel injection.

[greg1647545532]

I'm going to use it to ride the AL-Can highway. I figured a 200cc thumper is ideal because of the gas mileage.

[gillbot]

When I lived in Ohio I never found a deal on a bike there, I always bought them out of state.

[Geeto67]

I'm going to use it to ride the AL-Can highway. I figured a 200cc thumper is ideal because of the gas mileage.

 

woah...I am not sure this is such a great choice. VanVan's are notorious for their short range and small fuel capacity. Stock their fuel tank is something like 1.7Gal and the range is little over 100 miles. Suzuki claims it gets 70 mpg, but in real world trail riding it's closer to sixty. Despite being a small single it's not very fuel efficient because of the balloon tires and low gearing. I'll ask around but I am pretty sure the profit margin on a van van is just under $1000. It's happy place is around 40 mph and it can't carry a lot, it's a good "hunting" bike where you have to haul a cooler, a bedroll and tent, and a couple of rifles, but I wouldn't ever consider conquering the wilderness on one without heavy modification. The weirdo tire size (18 front 14" rear) is a turn off as well, hard to get tubes and tires in semi-rural US outside of a suzuki dealer, going to need to bring an extra set with you if you are going into the wild.

 

In the mean time consider these alternatives:

 

Honda CRF 250 Rally: The gold standard for small displacement around the world travel. It does get an actual 70mpg and can go faster than the vanvan's theoretical 70mph top speed. There are quite a few companies that make bolt on aux tanks for this bike taking the fuel capacity from 2.7 gal to 3.6 and the range to over 200miles per tank. top speed is 80mph too and it can cruise at 65-70 meaning short highway jumps are feasible.

 

BMW 310 GS: Yeah its an indian built single cyl beemer that is made of the cheapest suspension parts imaginable, but it also gets a 70 mpg real world fuel economy and has a range stock of close to 200 miles. It is routinely listed as one of the more fule efficient bikes ont he market today. Rally Raid makes a luggage setup that mounts to Rotopax fuel cells meaning you can push this out to 250 miles before you are out of gas. it also has a 90+ mph top speed. It's also the most expensive one here at $6600 msrp, but it wasn't a good seller and the margin on the beemer is a little bigger than the vanvan. I see leftover 2019s going for about $5500 and used 1 year old models for $4500 or less.

 

Royal Enfield himalayan: Another indian made motorcycle but it's a quality piece. It is probably the biggest displacement single here at 400ccs but don't let that fool you, I used to sell Royal Enfields and I routinely saw 70mpg out of the 500cc bullet singles, so it's a fuel efficient engine. The fuel tank is 3.9 Gal, and SRC makes a kit to carry an extra 1.5 Gal pushing your fuel capacity to 5.4 gal. It is the only bike we have discussed that gets 250 mile range off the showroom floor. The downside is there are no leftovers of this bike, my friend Dylan who runs Royal Enfield Columbus tells me he sells every one he gets in. That said it's a $4500 msrp bike, which is $200 less than your leftover van van, and comes with a better warranty. If you want I can introduce you to Dylan (or you can just go over there, tell him you are a friend of Kerry and ask for a test ride).

 

 

That said, I don't know why you wouldn't want to do this on a larger motorcycle, like a 1200GS beemer or a Triumph Tiger. A good portion of the highway is actual roadway, and the hazards are snow up in the mountains, large animal crossings, and road crews in summer who tear up the roads. I've know more than a few guys who have done the whole highway on big twin evo harleys. I could see the small adv bike for something like the trans america trail, but the Al-Can is more touring bike friendly. I would want a pack animal that could carry a lot and has a plug in for heater gear. then again I had a friend that used to ride laps of america on a 1962 vespa GS because he liked the challenge, so...to each their own.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Geeto67

[Gergwheel1647545492]

sarcasm :lolguy:

[Trouble Maker]

I'm going to use it to ride the AL-Can highway.

 

What an awesome idea. You're not completely alone, but maybe in there with just a few other nut jobs. So there might be some resources out there to help you plan.

 

https://jalopnik.com/this-nutty-bastard-rode-a-honda-grom-from-portland-to-1625358412

Hard to tell if this every went anywhere. https://www.rideapart.com/news/360181/honda-grom-alaska-argentina-tour/

 

It looks like the first guy used some light weight backpacking gear. I would highly suggest to look at bike-packing gear, which is touring and camping from a bicycle. There's a lot of really well made stuff out there, I imagine some of the bags might be usable/adaptable to a small motorcycle. There's also people out there making custom bags for what I remember to be really reasonable prices considering they are custom.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=best+bikepacking+gear

https://bikepacking.com/gear/2020-bikepacking-gear-of-the-year/

 

I imagine the biggest thing is having a decent plan laid out, testing out your situation and gear here before you head out there. My wife and friend went from somewhere in Washington to Hyder Alaska, almost ran out of fuel and had to get someone to open up a gas station for them even though it was closed.

 

Edit: I just read what Kerry wrote, I meant an awesome idea in general. I'm of no help on specific bikes so please listen to whatever he says and if not may god have mercy on your soul during your trip.

[greg1647545532]

sarcasm :lolguy:

 

Yeah, sorry, I should have put that in yellow.

 

I would like to do the ALCAN at some point in my Miata, the previous owner (guy in his 70s) told me he did that trip in it and I think it would be awesome to "recreate" it in his car.

 

Motorcycles for me are just for putzing down do the local wine store. And by motorcycles, right now I just mean my Vespa.

[Miller]

Miata and a Vespa...

[greg1647545532]

Miata and a Vespa...

 

And a small dick. Want my number?

[Trouble Maker]

I really want a 'big' electric-bicycle/small-motorcycle for puttzing town. Think something around 100-150lbs, looks like a beefy mountain bike but electric only with decent range/speed and the right lights to be road legal. I don't think anyone is making anything in this segment that's not a pile yet. I do think it's going to be a segment that grows massively in the coming years.

 

Something like this but actually meet's it's specs. https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/

[RyM3rC]

Electric bikes need to get better. Shame on zero and whoever their competition is for NOT putting demos out there all over to try and win over bikers. Same goes for the china-bikes. Decent chance I'd buy one if I could try before I buy, but spending $6k and getting a crate is NOPE!

[gillbot]

Electric bikes need to get better. Shame on zero and whoever their competition is for NOT putting demos out there all over to try and win over bikers. Same goes for the china-bikes. Decent chance I'd buy one if I could try before I buy, but spending $6k and getting a crate is NOPE!

 

Agreed. I’ve been waiting for a good competitor to the zero and if there was a better zero presence I’d probably cave and just get one.

[Trouble Maker]

The Zero's do almost nothing for me. They are based too much off of traditional motorcycle architecture, parts and design, which seems big, bulky and heavy VS mountain bike or some in-between. I think the later would be perfect for city riding. I really think the growth market is a city runabout that's more like a beefy bicycle (think downhill bike) or scooter VS motorcycle. I think the average person is going to feel much more comfortable on something that's more the size and style of a bicycle or scooter. Personally I have a ton more experience on mountain bikes, so that's what I selfishly want. I think it would be much more controllable/fun/flick-able, whatever you want to call it at those weights and sizes.

 

But it seems like the only real thing out there is the Suron/Segway and they seem like marketing garbage with specs that are outright lies, like the stated range.