V4junkie Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (A) No person shall operate a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar at a speed greater or less than is reasonable or proper, having due regard to the traffic, surface, and width of the street or highway and any other conditions, and no person shall drive any motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar in and upon any street or highway at a greater speed than will permit the person to bring it to a stop within the assured clear distance ahead. (B) It is prima-facie lawful, in the absence of a lower limit declared pursuant to this section by the director of transportation or local authorities, for the operator of a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar to operate the same at a speed not exceeding the following: ...© It is prima-facie unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in divisions (B)(1)(a), (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), and (8) of this section, or any declared pursuant to this section by the director or local authorities and it is unlawful for any person to exceed any of the speed limitations in division (D) of this section. No person shall be convicted of more than one violation of this section for the same conduct, although violations of more than one provision of this section may be charged in the alternative in a single affidavit. PRIMA-FACIE, EVIDENCE, CASE - Latin for "at first view." Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.A prima-facie case is a lawsuit that alleges facts adequate to prove the underlying conduct supporting the cause of action and thereby prevail. Assumed or "at first view" unlawful to drive above posted limits. If someone drives the speed limit and is hindering the flow of traffic who's breaking the law? The person driving at the reasonable speed or the person that everyone is swerving around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Green Valley Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I really hope that you are not a cop, because if you can't understand the law you should not be in charge of holding people to it. I am a cop and am very proud of my profession and the manner in which I perform my duties. I'm quite used to having my judgment questioned by many who believe they know my job better than I. If I am found to be incorrect in my application of the law or in the manner in which I perform my duties, I do want to know that. It only makes me a better and more informed Police Officer. There is a process to challenge whether I have applied the law and performed my duty properly. I encourage anyone to stand by their convictions and challenge the citation in court. That is your right and obligation if you truly believe you have been wronged by Law Enforcement. I don't take your comment personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4junkie Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Unfortunately it is my experience that without legal representation the odds in traffic court are stacked high against you. Innocent until proven guilty does not seem to exist there. Again, only imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I could have become a cop when i got out of the Army but couldn't bring myself to being a hipporcrit.whatever happened to doing real police work like solving crimes, recoverring stolen property. fn bastards have to take they're anger for havin a small weiner on everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4junkie Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I started reading your post and then got distrac........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Green Valley Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 whatever happened to doing real police work like solving crimes, recoverring stolen property. Police Officers still do that. I spent four and a half hours on Sunday night tracking down a missing twelve year old. Believe me, I could not spend eight hours of my shift purely working traffic enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVDon Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I love VMX12C's signature. Nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 wow didnt realize how many police officers were on here.. gotta be like 5-7 of you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzwhtman Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Police Officers still do that. I spent four and a half hours on Sunday night tracking down a missing twelve year old.Believe me, I could not spend eight hours of my shift purely working traffic enforcement.i give ya kudos man , i do not think all officers are above the law. you have to deal with alot of shit everyday. i have quite a few buds working in law enforcement. most in Major metropolis's around the country, and they see alot that leaves a burden on their mental state.it is a tough job. we need you or we would be in hell. but as in any demography there are bad seeds and good seeds. i think articles like these come from some dealings with the above the law mentality some encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 what about while driving? its pretty much a given that if its dark out cops should have their headlights on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 what about while driving? its pretty much a given that if its dark out cops should have their headlights on?i got out of this that they dont have too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxr750girl Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Honestly, if you're committing a crime, who cares how they catch you? I'm not saying I don't speed, but if I get a ticket because I didn't see the cop I'm not going to bitch about. I mean, that's what they're there for.I'm gonna have to agree with Casper...If I get caught speeding oh well I was breaking the law at that time and happen to get caught! I rarely do the posted speed limit that comes from growing up with fast cars and such. I just suck it up and pay the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 i got out of this that they dont have tooand by driving I mean moving down the roadway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4junkie Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'm gonna have to agree with Casper...If I get caught speeding oh well I was breaking the law at that time and happen to get caught! I rarely do the posted speed limit that comes from growing up with fast cars and such. I just suck it up and pay the ticket. As do most people, assuming they were in the wrong. Are you going to keep speeding? Probably. Is speed going to cause an accident in your future? Probably not. What are you paying for? Your safety? Nope. Road tax (that may be a misapplication of the law)? Yeah.Personally, when it comes down to it, twisting a law (and thereby abusing given authority) to generate revenue is the part that bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 and by driving I mean moving down the roadway hell i guess i still dont really know..there were too many different questions and discussions being held at the same time. too lazy too look through all the pages now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfcMav Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 wheres ofcmac from mansfield and the other dude on hereWell damn I am a day late on this discussion and there are over 100 posts?!? I missed all of the good stuff my bad guys haha. As i was readin i was thinkin damn how did i miss this thread and now im too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVTPilot Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks everyone for the entertaining read. I love all the banter between our real LEOs and the sidewalk lawyers. Great stuff. Its interesting to see how some LEOs have a completely different interpretation of the code than others. In a vacuum, things would seem pretty cut and dry But in reality, since we rely on interpretation and translation rather than following the word as it's prescribed, no two answers are going to be the same. And I love how we common folk can look at the LEO community at large and question their integrity based on an event with a rouge knucklehead cop. Kinda like how we motorcyclists are all considered knuckleheads, all guys on sportbikes are stunna squids, and haven't a shread of respect for the law or anyone else, and how we hate that. But it would be hypocritical to think that way of cops in light of our own disdain for being profiled or typecast based on the actions of others. But I digress. We have all had our run ins with dickhead cops who are out to boost their numbers for whatever reason. No shit. They are out there. And if you think you have a problem with them, what do you think it's like for VMX and BigGreen to have to deal with that? I guess it's just like anything else. Go back to your bitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Personally, when it comes down to it, twisting a law (and thereby abusing given authority) to generate revenue is the part that bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 As do most people, assuming they were in the wrong. Are you going to keep speeding? Probably. Is speed going to cause an accident in your future? Probably not. What are you paying for? Your safety? Nope. Road tax (that may be a misapplication of the law)? Yeah.that's basically what I was saying...if i'm booking down an empty freeway over the limit, but under control...the officer has the discretion to say "nobody is really in danger, let him go."the "red light" example was another good situation where the officer has the discretion to say "there is no traffic, no danger to anyone." Just because the light is red doesn't mean he was impeding anyone elses right of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Big Green Valley just man up and say that you are wrong about the parking light situation. R1_MP called it first and I provided the ORC. People are caling you out because you have been proved wrong and you are still in denial. ORC 4513.10 Lights on parked vehicles.(A) Except in case of an emergency, whenever a vehicle is parked or stopped upon a roadway open to traffic or a shoulder adjacent thereto, whether attended or unattended, during the times mentioned in section 4513.03 of the Revised Code, such vehicle shall be equipped with one or more lights which shall exhibit a white or amber light on the roadway side visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the front of such vehicle, and a red light visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the rear. No lights need be displayed upon any such vehicle when it is stopped or parked within a municipal corporation where there is sufficient light to reveal any person or substantial object within a distance of five hundred feet upon such highway. Any lighted headlights upon a parked vehicle shall be depressed or dimmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4junkie Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks everyone for the entertaining read. I love all the banter between our real LEOs and the sidewalk lawyers. Great stuff. Its interesting to see how some LEOs have a completely different interpretation of the code than others. In a vacuum, things would seem pretty cut and dry But in reality, since we rely on interpretation and translation rather than following the word as it's prescribed, no two answers are going to be the same. And I love how we common folk can look at the LEO community at large and question their integrity based on an event with a rouge knucklehead cop. Kinda like how we motorcyclists are all considered knuckleheads, all guys on sportbikes are stunna squids, and haven't a shread of respect for the law or anyone else, and how we hate that. But it would be hypocritical to think that way of cops in light of our own disdain for being profiled or typecast based on the actions of others. But I digress. We have all had our run ins with dickhead cops who are out to boost their numbers for whatever reason. No shit. They are out there. And if you think you have a problem with them, what do you think it's like for VMX and BigGreen to have to deal with that? I guess it's just like anything else. Go back to your bitching.Oh for sure, I would say the same is true for Bdruggan and others. I'm sympathetic and I don't give attitude when I'm pulled over. However, officers are not lawyers and the system relies heavily on citation revenue. Somewhere therein this became rationalized. Law school is expensive, the people that know it front to back have to charge for use of their knowledge. So they write books and have expensive rates. None of this does any good to the average Joe being ticketed for going with the flow of traffic 75mph on I-71 (for example). An attorney will not be provided for misdemeanors without the threat of jailtime. He will be prosecuted by an intern and an officer that have assumed him guilty and possess years of experience to their advantage. Proving you "reasonable doubt" becomes very difficult when representing yourself in this environment. The judge or prosecutor aren't going to speak up and let you know what you might have missed in your ignorance of process. "Hey Mr. So-and-so, he just contradicted himself, you should probably point that out." Not going to happen. "Protection" is not the name of the game anymore.Call me a sidewalk lawyer if you want, it's a forum. I'm a guy with opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 hell i guess i still dont really know..there were too many different questions and discussions being held at the same time. too lazy too look through all the pages nownot that anyone seems to care, but my last ticket I got was last year on my buddies bike. I was out being squidly on this large loop that goes my road, another road, and then a highway back to my road. (approx time = 12:30 at night)Anyway a cop passed me on the highway in the on coming lane, and turns around to give chase. At this time I had no idea he was behind me, so I turn on my road to head back to the house. Well he sees me turn onto my road and decided it was a good idea to turn off ALL of this lights and follow me. I get to my drive and slow to nearly a stop because my drive is gravel and about shit my pants when I heard a car skidding to a stop behind me. I looked back, see its a cop, and he lights me up in front of my house.Being the first time pulled over on a bike I didn't know what to do, (and I was scared as hell) so I just sat there. He then yells over the loud speaker to get off the bike and walk to the front of his car, then he pats me down and puts me in the back of the cruiser. When I asked him if he follows everyone without his headlights on he replied "I thought you were going to run"Now there is no doubt in my mind that I deserved the ticket, but not from that asshat. I regret not filing a complaint with the county about it (it was a deputy). So I ask again, its pretty much a given that you have to have headlights on while driving in the dark, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxr750girl Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 As do most people, assuming they were in the wrong. Are you going to keep speeding? Probably. Is speed going to cause an accident in your future? Probably not. What are you paying for? Your safety? Nope. Road tax (that may be a misapplication of the law)? Yeah.Personally, when it comes down to it, twisting a law (and thereby abusing given authority) to generate revenue is the part that bothers me.I can agree with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 So I ask again, its pretty much a given that you have to have headlights on while driving in the dark, right?yes, and if he was giving chase his sirens and strobes should have been on as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4junkie Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 So I ask again, its pretty much a given that you have to have headlights on while driving in the dark, right?Yes, moving or stationary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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