alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Some really, really do. I suppose when you're IN the dangerous situation, then it's hard to differentiate between "perp" and "guilty". Ole 5-0 girl didn't even take a second to find out what was going on. Took one look at the lady, hollered some instructions that the lady couldn't understand, then found her guilty right there in the parking lot. Punishment: immediate bleeding skull. No need for court....looks like we're all done here. Move along.Not quite. "5-0 girl" rolled up on scene with her lights on meaning she got a call to go there because of a woman with a knife. She found the woman with a knife so she obviously knew that that was who the call was for. Why are you assuming that she didnt know what "put the knife down," said a few times, means? She was speaking english earlier which tells me she knows english and put the knife down isnt a complicated order. Fairly simple to me. And the first time the officer says it, the old lady points the knife at her. Thats a no go. The officer found the lady to be a hazard and eliminated the risk for everyone around. She didnt find her guilty, she found her doing something illegal which requires an apprehension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 She preserved the safety of everyone around by getting rid of the person with the kinfe.Well she should have just shot the old bitch that would have made everyone safe then her ass wouldn't be back on the streets two days later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Well she should have just shot the old bitch that would have made everyone safe then her ass wouldn't be back on the streets two days later.Hmmm... Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickOn2 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 The officer found the lady to be a hazard and eliminated the risk for everyone around. She didnt find her guilty, she found her doing something illegal which requires an apprehension.OK, I will concede that. In your professional opinion, are you saying there was NO way to neutralize this 90-pound woman born before cars were invented, other than slamming her obviously frail body onto the pavement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 OK, I will concede that. In your professional opinion, are you saying there was NO way to neutralize this 90-pound woman born before cars were invented, other than slamming her obviously frail body onto the pavement?Well, if the officer would have controled the arm and spun it back to an "arm bar" and dislocated her arm, you would be saying that was excessive force as well. If she would have tasered her, that would have been too much for you too, however she would have been in the right if she did it. If the officer would have gone up and tried to take the knife nicely from her had, then she could have VERY easily been sliced or stabbed and then you are in a completely different situation that has the chance to take a life. The officers actions were very good. Putting the lady to the ground, sometimes easier to "place" them softer than others, is the best way to end the situation and save everyone around. If you see there after the lady is on the ground, a civilian comes up and puts his foot on the kinfe, meaning he saw the threat as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 If the officer really felt her safety was compromised she would have pulled her weapon and demanded the old woman disarm at gunpoint. You don't approach a suspect that is wielding a weapon and grab them if you think they are a threat. So' date=' that completely debunks that theory.[/quote']Someone can be at different levels of threats. You cant generalize, which she didnt do, like you are saying. Yes, some people she would have had to pull her gun but im pretty sure you just proved my point. She could have very easily pulled her gun out and did everything at gun point but chose to do it the safer way for everyone involved. Made contact, controlled the arm with the knife, and brought her to the ground. Much better than pulling the gun and pointing it at her when there are many people around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreator Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 If she was not in her right mind to understand the cops telling her to put down the knife I don't see any problem with how the cops handled this. She was in a parking lot, there were some people around and it's the cops duty to get the situation under control asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Well, if the officer would have controled the arm and spun it back to an "arm bar" and dislocated her arm, you would be saying that was excessive force as well. If she would have tasered her, that would have been too much for you too, however she would have been in the right if she did it. If the officer would have gone up and tried to take the knife nicely from her had, then she could have VERY easily been sliced or stabbed and then you are in a completely different situation that has the chance to take a life. The officers actions were very good. Putting the lady to the ground, sometimes easier to "place" them softer than others, is the best way to end the situation and save everyone around. If you see there after the lady is on the ground, a civilian comes up and puts his foot on the kinfe, meaning he saw the threat as well.I think you are getting a bit defensive, I truely appreciate the fact that cops stick up for each other (when it is for good). It wasn't a gun, it was a steak knife. If she would have spent more that 15 seconds trying to resolve the situation and it ended the way it did very few people here would be disagreeing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Tasers = stupid. Why didn't the male officer remove the knife from the scene? I would think with that many bystanders my first thought would be to remove a potential threat of a weapon. Maybe these 2 younger officers should be accompanied by a veteran for a while so they can learn the finer points of policing.Watch the video again. The other officer came over and had to remove the other female from trying to pull the old lady. After he controlled that lady, who listened to the cop like she was supposed to, he moved over and DID remove the kinfe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickOn2 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Well, if the officer would have controled the arm and spun it back to an "arm bar" and dislocated her arm, you would be saying that was excessive force as well. Would an arm bar in this case need to be forceful enough to dislocate her arm, though? Wouldn't the "positioning" be sufficient to remove the weapon?(for once) not trying to be a smart ass, really just trying to learn something here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4junkie Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think you are getting a bit defensive, I truely appreciate the fact that cops stick up for each other (when it is for good). It wasn't a gun, it was a steak knife. If she would have spent more that 15 seconds trying to resolve the situation and it ended the way it did very few people here would be disagreeingI don't know about you, but I'm probably easier to cut than steak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think you are getting a bit defensive, I truely appreciate the fact that cops stick up for each other (when it is for good). It wasn't a gun, it was a steak knife. If she would have spent more that 15 seconds trying to resolve the situation and it ended the way it did very few people here would be disagreeingYou asked the question and I answered it in my opinion. It is somewhat defensive due to the fact that I am a cop. An "assault" on one is and assault on all. And by the way, a steak knife can kill someone just as fast as a gun so it needs to be dealt with just as fast. The officer didnt shoot the lady, she took the better option of putting her down. Have you ever put someone down to the ground while trying to control one arm that has a weapon? It isnt easy to softly, gently lay them to the ground. As a matter of fact, if you do it fast you are less likely to hurt them. If done softly/slowly then you can break or dislocate their arm very easily and with little pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 "Who said anything about slicing you up? I just wanted to carve a little 'z' in your forehead - nothing serious." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Would an arm bar in this case need to be forceful enough to dislocate her arm, though? Wouldn't the "positioning" be sufficient to remove the weapon?(for once) not trying to be a smart ass, really just trying to learn something here..That depends. An arm bar, especially to the elderly lady, could VERY easily, even with a small amount of pressure, can dislocate a shoulder. Putting her on the ground is actually safer for everyone. Depending on how much the old lady struggled with the arm bar could cause a stabbing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I don't know about you, but I'm probably easier to cut than steak.I was illustrating that a steak knife is not exactly the weapon of choice for most premeditated crimes. So it was kind of the weapon of convenience and the danger level of a 84 year old lady with a cane and a steak knife isn't very high to anyone more than 10' away from her. If you want to look at it from a greater good of society standpoint, realize that there are a couple thousand cops in the greater Columbus area that have to put on a uniform and potentially deal with someone who is pissed off because of this situation. Her actions put a lot of other cops in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 No' date=' he's saying he's aware that she doesn't maintain the common sense required to initiate a move like that without the use of excessive force. [/quote']Not really. A dislocated limb is considered a serious injury. Bumps and bruises are not. She chose the lesser of the forces she could have used. If she did use the arm bar and the shoulder was dislocated, she still would not have been using excessive force at all. Still would have been well within her duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 (for once) not trying to be a smart ass, really just trying to learn something here..I'm not even going to try to start shit with you, you obviously like a good e-fight.However, as you've clearly stated, you do not have the training, knowledge, or experience to determine what amount of force is required to stop a suspect in a given scenario.To you it seems that this lady could have been handled in a softer, gentler way. Unfortunately, as theses officers have stated, when you are faced with a perp who is brandishing a weapon, you don't always get the option of getting out of the situation with nobody getting hurt.Thems the breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatik3 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 You asked the question and I answered it in my opinion. It is somewhat defensive due to the fact that I am a cop. An "assault" on one is and assault on all. And by the way, a steak knife can kill someone just as fast as a gun so it needs to be dealt with just as fast. The officer didnt shoot the lady, she took the better option of putting her down. Have you ever put someone down to the ground while trying to control one arm that has a weapon? It isnt easy to softly, gently lay them to the ground. As a matter of fact, if you do it fast you are less likely to hurt them. If done softly/slowly then you can break or dislocate their arm very easily and with little pressure.As someone who has been in the military, worked with law enforcement and now working private security. I have and continue to applaud the Whitehall officers for their handling of this event. Ofc. Scott (?) was professional in her approach and her methods in subduing the woman. I have seen countless incidents where a person is seemingly no threat and a L.E.O. lowers their guard. Only to have it end badly. As far as the takedown. When training in any fighting/defense discipline. You are taught not to hold back and be gentle. That is how people really get hurt. The officers should be COMMENDED for keeping their cool and maintaining their bearing. Way to go W.P.D. for doing what was right, even if others accuse you of being wrong.(and For giving us the least wanted girl fight ever) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 As someone who has been in the military, worked with law enforcement and now working private security. I have and continue to applaud the Whitehall officers for their handling of this event. Ofc. Scott (?) was professional in her approach and her methods in subduing the woman. I have seen countless incidents where a person is seemingly no threat and a L.E.O. lowers their guard. Only to have it end badly. As far as the takedown. When training in any fighting/defense discipline. You are taught not to hold back and be gentle. That is how people really get hurt. The officers should be COMMENDED for keeping their cool and maintaining their bearing. Way to go W.P.D. for doing what was right, even if others accuse you of being wrong.(and For giving us the least wanted girl fight ever)why don't you elaborate a little bit more on your credentials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4junkie Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I was illustrating that a steak knife is not exactly the weapon of choice for most premeditated crimes. So it was kind of the weapon of convenience and the danger level of a 84 year old lady with a cane and a steak knife isn't very high to anyone more than 10' away from her. Premeditated? Very few things are or need to be premeditated when it comes to those suffering from dementia. Sadly a few people I know have had family members suffer from this and I've also spent some time doing community service in nursing homes. You can't get any more unpredictable than someone who is losing their mind and whether it was a steak knife or a katana that person was one of the most potentially dangerous people to be wielding it. Old and frail but also possibly full of adrenaline, mixed dosages, and who knows what else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 As someone who has been in the military, worked with law enforcement and now working private security. I have and continue to applaud the Whitehall officers for their handling of this event. Ofc. Scott (?) was professional in her approach and her methods in subduing the woman. I have seen countless incidents where a person is seemingly no threat and a L.E.O. lowers their guard. Only to have it end badly. As far as the takedown. When training in any fighting/defense discipline. You are taught not to hold back and be gentle. That is how people really get hurt. The officers should be COMMENDED for keeping their cool and maintaining their bearing. Way to go W.P.D. for doing what was right, even if others accuse you of being wrong.(and For giving us the least wanted girl fight ever)Very much agreed. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 ...yadda yadda...some junk...my expert opinionwhy don't you elaborate a little bit more on your credentialsSrsly, because you know we're going to bust your balls about your judgment. You are the guy who thought your girl was going to get a free bike from a coke fiend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 (edited) I really like how my rep is gone now after all this, not that it is of great importance. Thanks guys! It is appreciated that people would do that because they differ in views. Interesting. And the comment "just concede that it was excessive." That tells me the maturity. We are going to take rep because i didnt agree with you. Impressive. Edited August 12, 2009 by alab32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickOn2 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I really like how my rep is gone now after all this, not that it is of great importance. Thanks guys! It is appreciated that people would do that because they differ in views. Interesting.Well it wasn't me! I sign all my reps, positive or negative. I figure as long as none of y'all pull me over, I'm relatively safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Well, its off to bed for me. Have a great day everyone and ill see what pops up on here when i wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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