SWing'R mobile repair saga continues....

[hue jass]

I know, but cats aren't cheap. Long as yer happy. And have a good runing reliable car in the end!

[jporter12]

There's a simple way to check every piece in the system. A shop should know how to perform these to find the exact problem before they ever order a part. That's why you pay them that much. Otherwise, they're doing it exactly the way an idiot kid would in his back yard - keep changing out parts until it's fixed.

Too bad there are MANY shops out there, and even MORE stealerships that fix cars this way.

With that coil problem I had, you could test the coil cold and it showed fine. When it heated up, that's when it would act up. The coil (or coils packs) can be tough or impossible to find with a voltmeter. I don't know what the fuck they were doing at the Cats.

Scope FTW! A faulty coil can be tracked down with a scope. Easily with an ignition scope. A DVOM CAN find faulty coils. Most of the time, when we see a bad coil, bad enough to cause a problem, we can find it by seeing what the spark looks like. Also, a scope on the O2 sensor can tell whether to problem is fuel or ignition, usually BEFORE it misfires. I don't even remember which way is which, but there will be "noise" in the waveform, and whether it's on top or bottom will tell you fuel or ignition. It's not a technique I use very often, as I can usually tell by other means.

They went to the cats when the light came back on with an efficiency code after they thought the misfire was gone. The cat efficiency test that the PCM runs CANNOT be accurate with an engine that may be missing. I'm going to call the cat codes bogus until the misfires are 100% gone. It could be running rich or lean just enough to keep it from throwing a code for either, but still cause the cat not be work like it should.

[SWing'R]

...I'm going to call the cat codes bogus until the misfires are 100% gone. It could be running rich or lean just enough to keep it from throwing a code for either, but still cause the cat not be work like it should.

I know, I'm betting that the O2 sensors and both convertors were fine, the cause of the misfires is most likely still the original and elusive problem, I think it led to the cat/O2 codes.

With the mileage on the car I don't doubt the plugs and cables were needed, but probably not the cats (at this point anyway).

[RSVDon]

My bet is still a shitty coil, like hue said, when warm. Ignition modules on the domestics are good for that shit too. Test fine cold, but when warm, fail miserably.

[Disclaimer]

@112k on the clock, you may be due for a new one. But after dropping this much coin on it, you must be planning on driving that Jap-Ford for many more miles.

I feel bad for you man, and it's these stories that make me glad I come from a family of gearheads and wrench turners.

[jporter12]

Invoice shows NGK Platinum. Heres copies of the invoices (so far)...

Repair #1 page 1' date=' Repair #1 page 2

Repair #2

Repair #3

I despise how vague their invoice is! At worst, our's are MUCH more detailed than that. We used to be vague like that, but it just ended up causing US headaches when we would look up history due to failed parts, new problems that could be related to an old problem, etc.... We put the supplier's part numbers on the invoices MOST of the time, or at LEAST a good description of the part to know where we got it from.... Most stuff we use is OE or Carquest, so if it has an OE number, we went to the dealer, otherwise, carquest, and we use their better lines of parts, unless the customer wants to try to trim some off the bill. It really helps to be sure what we DID put on it though! With brakes, Carquest has up to 4 or more different levels of pads we can get! It helps to know what we're dealing with!

[jporter12]

I know' date=' I'm betting that the O2 sensors and both convertors were fine, the cause of the misfires is most likely still the original and elusive problem, I think it led to the cat/O2 codes.

With the mileage on the car I don't doubt the plugs and cables were needed, but probably not the cats (at this point anyway).[/quote']

Most people don't realizr the O2 sensors don't last forever! They have a LIMITED service life. They SHOULD be a regular maintenance item, but it's typically at an interval that's beyond what the manufacturer publishes. With that said, my Intrepid has all 4 originals in it with 190k on the odometer! The fact is that they ARE going to respond slower than they should when they get old.

[SWing'R]

My bet is still a shitty coil, like hue said, when warm. Ignition modules on the domestics are good for that shit too. Test fine cold, but when warm, fail miserably.

We'll see how it runs for the wife on the way to work tomorrow.

I may call them and discuss the possibilities of the coils again.

Thanks for letting me vent all this shit here, and thanks for all the input. Goin to bed. L8TR.

[jporter12]

Basically yes. However there are exceptions. For example, turn a MAF the wrong way around when installing it and it will cause weird fluctuations between lean/rich causing the light to come on on your GTO.......don't ask. lol

I'm surprised that didn't cause the PCM to throw out the MAF data as invalid, rely on the MAP as a backup, and throw the light on to tell you that you're an idiot!

[hue jass]

J; what shop do you run in Johnstown? Would be good to know.

[jporter12]

J; what shop do you run in Johnstown? Would be good to know.

I don't run it, but my good friends does, and there are only 3 of us techs there. Chevysoldier works with us, too. It's called Coutryside Auto. I'm only posting because it was asked, I'm no way trying to promote the shop. I need to talk to Ben, and the owner of the shop about maybe being a sponsor.

[hue jass]

All cool. What's your hourly?

[jporter12]

I think the shops rate is 75. That has almost DOUBLED in the 10 years I've been there, and we're still below most of the others in the area! Costs are through the roof!

We also do body work, which has a totally different (almost confusing) rate structure.

[DTM Brian]

Cats are not the problem.

If the front one fails again have it removed and get all the dtc's turned off in the vcm for those codes. It could be a possible cam or crank sensor issue.

The first cat should never had been replaced.

[jporter12]

Cats are not the problem.

If the front one fails again have it removed and get all the dtc's turned off in the vcm for those codes. It could be a possible cam or crank sensor issue.

The first cat should never had been replaced.

Legality.

I'm not saying I have ever done such a thing, and I'm not NOT saying it either...

I though cam/crank sensor issue also, but TYPICALLY those will cause a worse problem, unless the misfire truly IS random.

[DTM Brian]

Legality.

.

"For off road use only"

99% of the cars I tune in the shop.

[jporter12]

"For off road use only"

99% of the cars I tune in the shop.

I just hope we don't get e-check anytime soon. Actually, for the work, I hope we do, as it will drive more business, but I'm not a tree-hugger, so I hope we don't!

[cmoosego]

swing'r if they cant get it right after 4 trips to the damn shop, I say drive it thru their front window and throw them the keys... f the b.s....

[rick37]

swing'r if they cant get it right after 4 trips to the damn shop, I say drive it thru their front window and throw them the keys... f the b.s....

Best answer yet hahaha

But for real I had a 2000 malibu and every time I had a misfire code I changed the coil and plugs and the problem went away, I had to change it about every 3 years.

[fox_racing_guy]

My bet is still a shitty coil, like hue said, when warm. Ignition modules on the domestics are good for that shit too. Test fine cold, but when warm, fail miserably.

Thats my guess as well, I had a GM product in the past that had this exact problem. It had 3 individual coil packs and 1 of them would give out intermediately and the fricking codes were everything from knock sensor to crank angle sensor.

[MidgetTodd]

I only had to read to post 10 to figure out the problem........... Your getting screwed.

I wont charge you for that diagnosis as it seems you've already been bled dry by this shop.

When you go back to pick up the car have a bat in your hand and calmly ask if they're sure its fixed and really ready for you to try and start it

[SAMBUSA]

I thought you didnt cuss or get mad?

Tell ya what you need to do......Get a hooker and some blow. Dump the blow in the fuel tank and dump your load in the hooker. Problem solved;)

[MidgetTodd]

That seems to be pretty solid logic there ^

[SWing'R]

I thought you didnt cuss or get mad?

Who seemed to start this rumor that I never get mad or cuss?? I don't drink much, so catching me drunk is a

rare occurance but for god sakes man I'm frickin Italian, I've got a very short fuse when it comes to my temper! (just ask the wife)

Anway, quick update before I head off to work, wife just called, she made it to work and the car ran absolutely fine,

asside from the fact that the light is still on, gotta take it back to have that turned off later.

[SAMBUSA]

Who seemed to start this rumor that I never get mad or cuss?? I don't drink much' date=' so catching me drunk is a

rare occurance but for god sakes man I'm frickin Italian, I've got a very short fuse when it comes to my temper! (just ask the wife)

.[/quote']

Guess that's just the way you are viewed on here, by me anyway