Apple keynote today, announcing iPhone 4G

[fusion]

ok, let's get some nomenclature straight - I realize the RAM is not IN the CPU. It's an ARM. ARM's don't have RAM IN the CPU. What it does have it two RAM substrates wire-bonded to the CPU bus inside the same package. This is what's unique.

OK fine, but SOC refers to having it on chip. That's PoP (or SiP) with SoC. You can't include SoC to include something not on chip, that's kind of the point. Therefore the others are as much SoC as the A4, from the processing components down to the memory controller...

Now does it it have a clear advantage when it comes to the the memory bus over the Droid? Probably. I don't remember what the Droid was using for it's path.

[magley64]

Apple ftw . Hate on haters!

LOL, it's as if everyone in the thread is talking about horsepower, torque, and engine configurations and you come back with "suzuki has the best logo bitches"

[jarvismb]

First of all, in my time in the digital design world, you're the first person I've ever run into to argue that the SoC and SiP nomenclatures are different enough to disqualify one from comparison to the other.

But if we're really going to argue over semantics, then the A4 is both a SoC and a SiP chip. The Cortex-A8 is a SoC for exact same reasons the snapdragon is. The CPU core has many intrinsic functions that used to be on separate chips in a system. Fine, they're both SoC's. The thing is, after that, the A4 goes a step further and binds that with other silicon substrates to make it a SiP chip as well.

So it's both, it's neither, it's whatever, but it is better*. Call Tiger Woods black, call him asian, it doesn't matter, he's still better. And gets more white women.

*(until something new comes out)

[that dude]

LOL, it's as if everyone in the thread is talking about horsepower, torque, and engine configurations and you come back with "suzuki has the best logo bitches"

Yeah you added a whole lot to this thread. Doirds kills iPhone! Btw Suzuki is the best!

[fusion]

First of all, in my time in the digital design world, you're the first person I've ever run into to argue that the SoC and SiP nomenclatures are different enough to disqualify one from comparison to the other.

But if we're really going to argue over semantics, then the A4 is both a SoC and a SiP chip. The Cortex-A8 is a SoC for exact same reasons the snapdragon is. The CPU core has many intrinsic functions that used to be on separate chips in a system. Fine, they're both SoC's. The thing is, after that, the A4 goes a step further and binds that with other silicon substrates to make it a SiP chip as well.

So it's both, it's neither, it's whatever, but it is better*. Call Tiger Woods black, call him asian, it doesn't matter, he's still better. And gets more white women.

*(until something new comes out)

Wait I'm arguing over semantics and you weren't when you said they weren't SoC chips for some reason?

So what exactly does the A4 bind that makes it so unique and special again?

For what it's worth I'm talking about the TI OMAP not Snapdragon.

[jarvismb]

Wait I'm arguing over semantics and you weren't when you said they weren't SoC chips for some reason?

I'll cede that I'm the victim of my own argument here. I did use the term too loosely before. The point of the argument was attempting to convey that the A4 is a much more self-contained "System-in-Package" than any of the competing chips right now because it needs no other external chips to operate, i.e. memory, and that it's memory is lower-latency because of it's proximity to the CPU itself. My nomenclature was somewhat unchecked until we got into the semantics portion of this wonderful James Carville escapade...

So what exactly does the A4 bind that makes it so unique and special again?

They wire-bond two 128MBx64-bit DDR SDRAM substrates (so 256MB of ultra-low latency RAM in the package) in a flip-chip arrangement, in an offset stack right above the Cortex-A8 CPU. This is the cross-section:

That big blue section is the main CPU. The upper two blue parts that are offset are the two SDRAM dies. This is all within the single A4 package. No one else has this setup right now.

For what it's worth I'm talking about the TI OMAP not Snapdragon.

Ok, well in that case, the TI OMAP series, as is current from TI right now, states that the biggest OMAP model has the standard L1/L2 cache, and has an additional 64K RAM and 32K ROM (built as NAND Flash, which I didn't know, and is actually pretty cool) in the package. This is all well and good, but you still need external LPDDR memory to support any real functionality. This is the main point of the A4 - those external RAM dies (both 64-bit 128MB) were bonded to the CPU in the package. No external RAM chips on the PCB.

[that dude]

Fux the droid

[magley64]

Yeah you added a whole lot to this thread. Doirds kills iPhone! Btw Suzuki is the best!

well I was talking about the automotive equivalent of turbo charging or nitrous "overclocking" which is a legitimate argument...

and nobody cares if you think suzuki is best squid, you're not even a rider, you're a boater.

so take your mercury or evinrude or whatever, and go drown your iphone in a lake

Edited June 17, 2010 by magley64

[that dude]

well I was talking about the automotive equivalent of turbo charging or nitrous "overclocking" which is a legitimate argument...

and nobody cares if you think suzuki is best squid, you're not even a rider, you're a boater.

so take your mercury or evinrude or whatever, and go drown your iphone in a lake

Let me tell you something. I was racing bikes when you were still a sperm. FYI it's an inboard, ford 351w. Don't get all butt hurt on me man.

[magley64]

Let me tell you something. I was racing bikes when you were still a sperm. FYI it's an inboard, ford 351w. Don't get all butt hurt on me man.

well jesus! if i were that old I wouldn't want to get my wrinkly old ass out of bed, let alone ride a real sport bike around. please enjoy your golden years on your dingy gramps.

[that dude]

Lol

[jbot]

you gheyz can't seriously be arguing about who's better at arguing like a more hardcore nerd.

[jarvismb]