dyna beads balancing

[SAMBUSA]

Why do you all think that centripetal force will always cause the beads to go to the unbalanced area? Physics says that once the speed of rotation is enough to hold the object in place, it will hold it in the spot where it is once it reaches the necessary rotational speed to overcome the weight of the object and gravity (1G).

AKA. it will hold those beads on a flat spot just as easy as it would hold them on a rounded spot.

Ding Ding!!!

Like I said, leave the beads in da ass

[flounder]

Why don't you just try them and see that they work?

My bike and my life are not for "trying" something. I will wait until its proven or dis-proven but like I said from a physics standpoint, they wouldnt work on high RPM machines. At least IMO. People are confusing "balancing" with having a flat spot or "out of round" area of tire for the beads to fill to offset the difference in weight from the other side and that is not the case. The beads will just roll around in your tire until the RPM's reach a fast enough speed to overcome gravity and hold them to the wall of the tire. And that place they stay at RPM is not necessarily where they need to be from a weight perspective.

Edited June 18, 2010 by flounder

[Cheech]

My bike and my life are not for "trying" something. I will wait until its proven or dis-proven but like I said from a physics standpoint, they wouldnt work on high RPM machines. At least IMO. People are confusing "balancing" with having a flat spot or "out of round" area of tire for the beads to fill to offset the difference in weight from the other side and that is not the case. The beads will just roll around in your tire until the RPM's reach a fast enough speed to overcome gravity and hold them to the wall of the tire. And that place they stay at RPM is not necessarily where they need to be from a weight perspective.

That's cool. You have your opinion, I have my facts. I get nothing out of trying to convince you otherwise, so I won't.

[Tomcat0403]

Ok here is the skinny on them, they work...however my front tire beads got all balled up and created. many larger beads, almost like a snowball effect. This I have heard is rare, but don't buy anything from columbus scoot and cycle. I am sorry for bringing them here and to this site.

[flounder]

Oh, and just for reference, all of you people saying that they work great when you put them on your balencer must be full of shit considering that even on the DynaBeads FAQ page, they say.......

Q: Can I put the tire on a balancer to see if it's working?

A: No. Dyna Beads operates on physics principles, and requires the tire assembly to be in motion against a road surface to detect the exact counterbalance position. An electronic balancer has a solid, fixed mount, and does not allow the tire to react to imbalance.

Hmmm. I guess all of you that balanced your tires and said its working evidently dont understand how they work... OR... Its complete bullshit...

Not to mention even they say they dont work until 25-35mph but exact speeds depend on tire diameter. That means that when you are below their "fake" recommended speeds, your tires are now extremely out of balance since you have weights just sitting at the bottom of the tire.

Edited June 18, 2010 by flounder

[oldschoolsdime92]

Well, ive done about 45 miles with them. I put them in the front and rear, and jumped on the idiot band wagon. I am very impressed. My bike is smoother than its ever been, even at low speeds. We have been using them in our dump trucks for a long time without any problem. I really just wondered if anyone else used them on there motorcycles, and had good luck.

[conn-e-rot]

I didn't see anyone say they put the tires on a balancer after putting beads in the tire.... Dude if you don't want to try them then don't.... I guess every single person that has written a positive review must be full of shit.... Nobody is on here to argue with you yet your calling everyone fucking idiots chill out you stated your opinion and so have others

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg&feature=related

[hue jass]

Conventional (read; shoddy) wisdom would say that they seek out the heavy spot, but what they don't envision is that they distribute themselves all around the inside of the tire and thin out near the heavy spot. The way they're able to do it is because of what they are. 1/3mm ceramic beads that are perfectly round. If you rub them in your fingers they feel like liquid silicone. They never wear out.

We should go over to Flounder's house tonight, take off his weights and put some in his tires. He'll think someone fixed his motorcycle.

[Likwid]

Why can't I just put sand in my tire?

[conn-e-rot]

Conventional (read; shoddy) wisdom would say that they seek out the heavy spot, but what they don't envision is that they distribute themselves all around the inside of the tire and thin out near the heavy spot. The way they're able to do it is because of what they are. 1/3mm ceramic beads that are perfectly round. If you rub them in your fingers they feel like liquid silicone. They never wear out.

We should go over to Flounder's house tonight, take off his weights and put some in his tires. He'll think someone fixed his motorcycle.

[ross]

Hmmm. I guess all of you that balanced your tires and said its working evidently dont understand how they work... OR... Its complete bullshit...

Not to mention even they say they dont work until 25-35mph but exact speeds depend on tire diameter. That means that when you are below their "fake" recommended speeds, your tires are now extremely out of balance since you have weights just sitting at the bottom of the tire.

i understand how they work just fine. i believe the one that doesn't understand the concept is you. if your tires are "extremely out of balance" at speeds below 25mph then i suggest you find a better brand of tire because it sounds like a defective tire to me. if you don't like them so be it, don't shit on everyone else and call them stupid just because you want them to live under your rock too.

[magley64]

now what happens when those ceramic beads stick together?, what happens when the inside of your tire is textured? what happens when you have a tire patched/ plugged?

[chevysoldier]

My bike and my life are not for "trying" something. I will wait until its proven or dis-proven but like I said from a physics standpoint, they wouldnt work on high RPM machines. At least IMO. People are confusing "balancing" with having a flat spot or "out of round" area of tire for the beads to fill to offset the difference in weight from the other side and that is not the case. The beads will just roll around in your tire until the RPM's reach a fast enough speed to overcome gravity and hold them to the wall of the tire. And that place they stay at RPM is not necessarily where they need to be from a weight perspective.

Has anyone that has used them posted a negative review of them? I won't ever use conventional weights on my bike now.

Oh, and just for reference, all of you people saying that they work great when you put them on your balencer must be full of shit considering that even on the DynaBeads FAQ page, they say.......

Q: Can I put the tire on a balancer to see if it's working?

A: No. Dyna Beads operates on physics principles, and requires the tire assembly to be in motion against a road surface to detect the exact counterbalance position. An electronic balancer has a solid, fixed mount, and does not allow the tire to react to imbalance.

Hmmm. I guess all of you that balanced your tires and said its working evidently dont understand how they work... OR... Its complete bullshit...

Not to mention even they say they dont work until 25-35mph but exact speeds depend on tire diameter. That means that when you are below their "fake" recommended speeds, your tires are now extremely out of balance since you have weights just sitting at the bottom of the tire.

Don't think anyone said they put them on their balancer.

Why can't I just put sand in my tire?

Back in the day some used to put a few golf balls in semi tires to balance them. The guy I talked to said they worked good, didn't say how mnay they used though.

now what happens when those ceramic beads stick together?, what happens when the inside of your tire is textured? what happens when you have a tire patched/ plugged?

What happens when your wheel weight falls off? What happens when you plug your tire? Do you always rebalance it? How often do you check your balance?

[magley64]

What happens when your wheel weight falls off? What happens when you plug your tire? Do you always rebalance it? How often do you check your balance?

never had a stock honda weight fall off my rim...ever.

If i pull the tire off to install a patch, why wouldn't i put on the balancer before re-installing on the bike?

gotta say, after reading their website, i'm not totally freaked out by it, HOWEVER if it's not "good enough" for cars and SUV's there is no way in hell they are "good enough" for my motorcycle.

I'll stick to my $30 balancer and wheel weights. at least i can see that it is perfectly balanced before re-installing, rather than just "hope" that once i get rolling that they are working properly.

[chevysoldier]

never had a stock honda weight fall off my rim...ever.

If i pull the tire off to install a patch, why wouldn't i put on the balancer before re-installing on the bike?

gotta say, after reading their website, i'm not totally freaked out by it, HOWEVER if it's not "good enough" for cars and SUV's there is no way in hell they are "good enough" for my motorcycle.

I'll stick to my $30 balancer and wheel weights. at least i can see that it is perfectly balanced before re-installing, rather than just "hope" that once i get rolling that they are working properly.

Not good enough for cars?

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I have never had a weight fall off but have seen many car tire that stick on and clip on have fallen off. They are dangerous when they do.

No everyone has a balancer to use, myself included.

How long does the wheel stay in balance? You say you "know" they are balanced but they don't stay that way.

[serpentracer]

so what if you put 2 ounces of them in a tire that is already perfectly balanced? it's going to be out of balance right?

besides, I've never had to use more than 3-4 1/4oz weights on any tire. adding 2oz just for the hell of it sounds like a lot.

and the last time I checked a physics book, when something is spinning you want the counter weight on the opposite side..the beads will seek the heavy spot thus making it heavier. there is a thing called gravity at play. you put a weight in a out of balance spinning object it's going to the heavy spot.

Edited June 18, 2010 by serpentracer

[conn-e-rot]

I had my car tires computer balanced and bought lifetime rotation/balance and had them rotated every 6000 miles and every time they rotated them they were out of balance... the guy told me he's seen tires with 200 miles out of balance....the tires on my dads car have beads in them and have 30k on them and they are wearing perfect.

[flounder]

Ok so I guess I need to put it a different way.

I think we can all agree that balanced is balanced right? So whether you use the beads or weights, we should all end up with an equally balanced tire. I think thats fair.

So my questions are as follows.

1. How easy is to re-use the beads when you have to switch tires and what is the cost? My guess is that all those little beads are going to be a pain in the ass to move from one tire to the next and unless you get them all, the weights could be off of what you think you are putting in and what you are actually putting in. Maybe not much but potential for some difference of expected vs actual.

2. Based on all the info presented, the beads need to be up to speed before doing any "balancing" with your tire. So that means that you are riding for a period of time (<25-35mph) that your tire is not balanced.

3. Standard wheel weights will always have your wheels balanced no matter if you are at 1mph or 200mph since they are static and dont move like the beads.

So with that being said, why wouldnt you want your wheels balanced 100% of the time as opposed to 80%, 90%, or 95% of the time like you get with the beads until they stabilize in your tire.

And if you shouldnt use it with modified suspension, then how do they know it works with all oem suspension. Did they test every make and model out there, I seriously doubt it. Too many things just dont add up. And since at the track there are many corners under 35mph, I personally wouldnt use them in that environment either. At least until more testing has been done and validated.

Not trying to call anyone an idiot so I apologize for presenting it like that. If you are doing it for the looks factor then thats fine but a tire that is balanced less then 100% of the time (aka beads until up to some speed) is just not for me and can in no way give you better results or tire life then a tire that is balanced 100% of the time.

I have my suspicion that you tend to think they work better because they probably help to absorb a bit of shock from bumps in the road since the beads can move with the bumps.

They even mention on their page not to use them with vehicles that have modified suspension. A truly balanced tire shouldn't matter what suspension its riding on or if its on a tire which is bigger then the oem tire that the vehicle came with. (they also mention this on their page)

Edited June 18, 2010 by flounder

[serpentracer]

actually if you search the net long enough you will find people finding these things glued themselves in place around the inside of the tire.

http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246602

there are several more examples.

looks like using them in a metzeler also voids the warranty

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/general-harley-davidson-chat/509776-new-metzelers-w-dyna-beads-voids-warranty-want-opinions.html

[ross]

1. How easy is to re-use the beads when you have to switch tires and what is the cost?

What i normally do is take a ziplock sandwich bag and a piece of masking tape, open the bag and tape one side of the opening to the inside of the tire. Roll the tire and all of your beads are in the baggy. Put the new tire half way on the wheel and dump in the beads before finishing mounting the tire. I get the beads for $7 for 8 ounces.

2. Based on all the info presented, the beads need to be up to speed before doing any "balancing" with your tire. So that means that you are riding for a period of time (<25-35mph) that your tire is not balanced.

How often do you ride any long distance at those speeds? My guess would be never so does it really make any difference if your tires are out a couple ounces from being perfect at those low speeds?

[ross]

so what if you put 2 ounces of them in a tire that is already perfectly balanced? it's going to be out of balance right?

besides, I've never had to use more than 3-4 1/4oz weights on any tire. adding 2oz just for the hell of it sounds like a lot.

and the last time I checked a physics book, when something is spinning you want the counter weight on the opposite side..the beads will seek the heavy spot thus making it heavier. there is a thing called gravity at play. you put a weight in a out of balance spinning object it's going to the heavy spot.

actually the seek the low spot inside the tire, collect in the low spot and the rest spread evenly through the rest of the tire. if the tire is perfect, then they will just disperse evenly within.

[magley64]

Not good enough for cars?

Why don't you have a chart for regular passenger cars?

We don't market to cars and SUV's due to the high performance style of those tires, which are low and wide.

[serpentracer]

I'm not going to sit here and tell you guys they do not work. frankly I can't. but I'd rather know my tire is balanced.

sure, the weight kind will get off and might need redone every 1k miles. but I know when I put it on my bike it's not going to be off.

what I'd really like to see is a tire on a good balance machine. one that does static balance and dynamic balance and see if they really do work. because you could add weights on the rim and the beads should counter that right?

someone needs to do this. lol then I'll use them if it works because in theory they sound like the ideal thing. as long as they can work in hard acceleration, stopping, and directional changes

what if you get headshake, will the beads make it worse? these things are so new they haven't been proven in my eyes yet.

Edited June 18, 2010 by serpentracer

[serpentracer]

here's one good question I think we should all be asking,

if it truly worked, why doesn't Ford or Chevy or Honda or BMW come with Dynabeads? If they could get rid of all the cost of balancing tires and wheels in an assembly plant, and replace it with a squirt or two of these magic beads don't you think they would?

[serpentracer]

here's another person claiming he's a engineer. and pretty much said what I was saying.

I'm a mechanical engineer and here's what I know about the physics involved. As the wheel spins, the beads are going to be propelled outwards via centrifugal force. If there is any one spot on the inside of the tire that is further away from the center (axle in this case), that is where the beads would end up. Given the modern tire manufacturing makes for are very uniform tire, I don't think there is such a spot, unless it's a really cheap, crappy tire. (On a side note, modern tires are so well made that when you change a tire, you can typically leave the wheel weights on and it'll be very well balanced as the wheels are more out of balance than the rubber. It's been discussed at length here. Do a search). Now, if there is indeed an out of balance situation, the heavy spot on the tire is going to cause that spot to be pulled a little further away from the axle via the same centrifugal force and the beads will want to settle there thus increasing the out of balance situation. The physics of the system dictate that the beads should make the balance situation worse. On bigger vehicles, like trucks, the insanely huge mass of the tires is such that the beads have little noticable effect. I think that those who swear by them are suffering from the placebo effect. On a motorcycle, where the rotational mass is less and if the tires are perfectly (or very nearly so) round, my guess is that the beads distribute themselves pretty evenly as the tire gets up to speed and provide virtually no effect one way or the other.