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Non-Ethanol Gas in columbus?


Das Borgen

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agreed,

my main reason was to find out how much better gas mileage I get with E0 (100% gas) as opposed to the commonplace E10 (90%gas) sold everywhere..... even if it might be more expensive comparatively, would it actually turn out to be cheaper?

I plan to check data with my duc and my bimmer to see the differences because 100% gas is also much better at returning mileage than ethanol-ladden gas....because ethanol has less energy density, it takes more amount ethanol to create the same amount of energy a given amount of gas creates

ethanol also reduces the life of motors due to its corrosive nature in eating fuel system rubber lines, seals and engine cylinder walls and victimizing catalytic converters..........

It pisses me now that farmers want the government to mandate E15 (85%gas) just so they can create more demand for their crops and get more money without considering 2 things

1) less gas mileage which ultimately results in higher running costs due to having to buy more gas

2) even more reduced engine health

I hope the EPA blocks that decision

Edited by Das Borgen
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agreed,

my main reason was to find out how much better gas mileage I get with E0 (100% gas) as opposed to the commonplace E10 (90%gas) sold everywhere..... even if it might be more expensive comparatively, would it actually turn out to be cheaper?

I plan to check data with my duc and my bimmer to see the differences because 100% gas is also much better at returning mileage than ethanol-ladden gas....because ethanol has less energy density, it takes more amount ethanol to create the same amount of energy a given amount of gas creates

That's why some of the Ford Taurus's that had flex fuel on them had a distance to empty display in them, right in the instrument cluster. Isn't E85 something like 70-80% as much power as fuel? Once you get it down to the 10% (how accurate do you think this is?) in most pump gas, how much of a drop is it really? I think that's what the OP is looking for as well.

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That's why some of the Ford Taurus's that had flex fuel on them had a distance to empty display in them, right in the instrument cluster. Isn't E85 something like 70-80% as much power as fuel? Once you get it down to the 10% (how accurate do you think this is?) in most pump gas, how much of a drop is it really? I think that's what the OP is looking for as well.

it s enough for me to worry about my engine health (in my car more than my bike) moreso than the actual mileage

especially since I wind my engine up pretty hard

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Stoich of 100% Gas 14.7

Stoich of 10% Ethanol 14.1

Stoich of E85 9.65

The higher the stoich of the fuel being used the better the mileage.

exactly

now anybody know of any stations?

there has to be ONE in columbus at least

usually gas station owners can tell you.

Ohio is one of 15 states that are not required to slap a sticker on the pumps saying the ethanol content

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exactly

now anybody know of any stations?

there has to be ONE in columbus at least

usually gas station owners can tell you.

Ohio is one of 15 states that are not required to slap a sticker on the pumps saying the ethanol content

I thought they were! I know that many used to, I don't pay that much attention any more.

Wasn't Shell one of the few that had no ethanol before?

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Isn't diesel still ethanol free. That and the energy content of diesel is huge. Not that that helps Rich at all.

Just sayin. what is the stoich of diesel and what does that stand for.

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This thread makes my head hurt.

I don't think E15 really makes that much of a difference. 1.) Ethanol isn't really that bad for modern fuel systems. The problem is that it's hydroscopic, so it attracts water to the fuel system, creating rust over time. If you have a modern fuel system then you really don't have to worry about the rust issue presenting itself there. I run E15 in Michigan 6 months out of the year and have seen zero difference in my polymer tank's characteristics. E15 is not going to hurt your engine. 2.) Yes, ethanol has a lower energy content, but it also has a larger octane rating. I'm unsure of how large it is when it's in E15 though. In E85, the octane rating is way higher so it's great for boosted applications and highly advanced timing. The one catch being that you need to put more fuel in like Brian stated so you're seeing a richer A/F. I'll be able to tell you how much my blown LS1 loves the corn juice soon hopefully. :)

My fuel mileage drops around 1 mpg to 2 mpg when I run solely E15 for extended periods of time in both my bike and car.

Everyone thinking that E15 is the devil, um ok...

Edited by RSVDon
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I don't have a problem with the fuel but IMO the politics and reasoning behind pushing it in America are not the best. Having said that I'm not an expert and don't want to get in a pissing match about that. It's just my opinion based on what I know.

My real problem with it is that it's causing issues with plastic fuel tanks on several ducati models. Specifically the sport classic and the monsters. I realize this is as much something ducati should have engineered for as it is a fault of ethanol it's self. Bottom line for me is it's annoying. at least ducati is willing to replace my gas tank.

This is a relevant thread to my problem.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.0

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Isn't diesel still ethanol free. That and the energy content of diesel is huge. Not that that helps Rich at all.

Just sayin. what is the stoich of diesel and what does that stand for.

Diesel is a totally different monster!

Stoich is short stoichiometric. 100% gasoline takes 14.7 parts of air to one part of gasoline to burn the most efficiently. (Or is it most completely? I forget all the ins and outs of it all.) This is not ideal for all (not many) driving conditions, but typically what you will see in a steady state cruise, at least on a modern (fuel injected) car.

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I don't have a problem with the fuel but IMO the politics and reasoning behind pushing it in America are not the best. Having said that I'm not an expert and don't want to get in a pissing match about that. It's just my opinion based on what I know.

Exactly. Well stated. Quit messing with our food supply. But, for once, I'll try to keep this on topic (a rarity around here! :lol:)

My real problem with it is that it's causing issues with plastic fuel tanks on several ducati models. Specifically the sport classic and the monsters. I realize this is as much something ducati should have engineered for as it is a fault of ethanol it's self. Bottom line for me is it's annoying. at least ducati is willing to replace my gas tank.

This is a relevant thread to my problem.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.0

It's awesome that Ducati is stepping up to the plate on this one!

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Oh, so it's not a measure of energy in the fuel but a measure of how much energy the fuel takes from the air. Either way probably producing more energy as an end result.

Actually, it's a ratio of how much fuel is needed for a complete burn in the engine. If ethanol takes less air per part of fuel (9.62 I think is what Brian posted?) than gasoline (14.7 for no ethanol content) you are using more fuel to fill the same volume. Say you have a cylinder that holds 15 liters (big engine!) fill it with 14.7 liters of air and one liter fuel. It is full. Fill it with 9.62 liters of ehtanol and one of fuel. Not full. You need to add both to keep the ratio correct, therefore, you use more fuel.

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It's awesome that Ducati is stepping up to the plate on this one!

It's one of those things that makes me wonder what other applications are getting messed up by the different properties of this fuel. I have heard particularly that older cars, classics, and such have some real issues with the ethanol content as well. I suppose it's just a pain of the game but what is really annoying is that you can't find a place to buy the pure stuff if you need to. At the very least inform the customers what they are buying so they can decide if they want to support it or not or even if they want to prevent some defect the ethanol is causing. I'm not going to get on a soap box and say to stop making it, I'm just saying make the information available so consumers can make a choice. I have been putting off replacing my tank because I'm certain it'll just happen again unless I pony up and find a metal gas tank.

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Actually, it's a ratio of how much fuel is needed for a complete burn in the engine. If ethanol takes less air per part of fuel (9.62 I think is what Brian posted?) than gasoline (14.7 for no ethanol content) you are using more fuel to fill the same volume. Say you have a cylinder that holds 15 liters (big engine!) fill it with 14.7 liters of air and one liter fuel. It is full. Fill it with 9.62 liters of ehtanol and one of fuel. Not full. You need to add both to keep the ratio correct, therefore, you use more fuel.

Right so if your ratio contains more air then you are taking more energy from the air (essentially free fuel via oxygen) and vise versa. Is that logic incorrect. I follow what you mean about the ratio and amount of fuel required based on the air fuel ratio BTW.

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It's one of those things that makes me wonder what other applications are getting messed up by the different properties of this fuel. I have heard particularly that older cars, classics, and such have some real issues with the ethanol content as well. I suppose it's just a pain of the game but what is really annoying is that you can't find a place to buy the pure stuff if you need to. At the very least inform the customers what they are buying so they can decide if they want to support it or not or even if they want to prevent some defect the ethanol is causing. I'm not going to get on a soap box and say to stop making it, I'm just saying make the information available so consumers can make a choice. I have been putting off replacing my tank because I'm certain it'll just happen again unless I pony up and find a metal gas tank.

Unless the new tanks are lined with a different polymer that is tolerant of the ethanol content? Many of the cars and truck that are certified to run E85 have plastic tanks, so I'm sure it can be done.

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Right so if your ratio contains more air then you are taking more energy from the air (essentially free fuel via oxygen) and vise versa. Is that logic incorrect. I follow what you mean about the ratio and amount of fuel required based on the air fuel ratio BTW.

Another way to look at it, it takes more oxygen to burn 100% gasoline, which is better for efficiency. Any deeper on the subject and I will be over my head! :lol: It does sound like you have a good idea of what's going on, just from a different viewpoint!

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