Das Borgen Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 anyone in Columbus or central ohio generally know where I can get 100% gasoline without any ethanol added? Seems like everywhere has 10% ethanol addedI figure this is a good place to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Short of buying race fuel I think you are SOL. If you do find a source let me know though. the Ethanol is causing my Ducati's plastic tank to swell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) agreed,my main reason was to find out how much better gas mileage I get with E0 (100% gas) as opposed to the commonplace E10 (90%gas) sold everywhere..... even if it might be more expensive comparatively, would it actually turn out to be cheaper?I plan to check data with my duc and my bimmer to see the differences because 100% gas is also much better at returning mileage than ethanol-ladden gas....because ethanol has less energy density, it takes more amount ethanol to create the same amount of energy a given amount of gas createsethanol also reduces the life of motors due to its corrosive nature in eating fuel system rubber lines, seals and engine cylinder walls and victimizing catalytic converters..........It pisses me now that farmers want the government to mandate E15 (85%gas) just so they can create more demand for their crops and get more money without considering 2 things1) less gas mileage which ultimately results in higher running costs due to having to buy more gas2) even more reduced engine healthI hope the EPA blocks that decision Edited June 22, 2010 by Das Borgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 agreed,my main reason was to find out how much better gas mileage I get with E0 (100% gas) as opposed to the commonplace E10 (90%gas) sold everywhere..... even if it might be more expensive comparatively, would it actually turn out to be cheaper?I plan to check data with my duc and my bimmer to see the differences because 100% gas is also much better at returning mileage than ethanol-ladden gas....because ethanol has less energy density, it takes more amount ethanol to create the same amount of energy a given amount of gas createsThat's why some of the Ford Taurus's that had flex fuel on them had a distance to empty display in them, right in the instrument cluster. Isn't E85 something like 70-80% as much power as fuel? Once you get it down to the 10% (how accurate do you think this is?) in most pump gas, how much of a drop is it really? I think that's what the OP is looking for as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 That's why some of the Ford Taurus's that had flex fuel on them had a distance to empty display in them, right in the instrument cluster. Isn't E85 something like 70-80% as much power as fuel? Once you get it down to the 10% (how accurate do you think this is?) in most pump gas, how much of a drop is it really? I think that's what the OP is looking for as well.it s enough for me to worry about my engine health (in my car more than my bike) moreso than the actual mileageespecially since I wind my engine up pretty hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Stoich of 100% Gas 14.7Stoich of 10% Ethanol 14.1Stoich of E85 9.65The higher the stoich of the fuel being used the better the mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 100LL at airports. = 100 Low Lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Stoich of 100% Gas 14.7Stoich of 10% Ethanol 14.1Stoich of E85 9.65The higher the stoich of the fuel being used the better the mileage.exactlynow anybody know of any stations?there has to be ONE in columbus at leastusually gas station owners can tell you. Ohio is one of 15 states that are not required to slap a sticker on the pumps saying the ethanol content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 100LL at airports. = 100 Low Lead.readily available to the public?anywhere closer to Dublin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 exactlynow anybody know of any stations?there has to be ONE in columbus at leastusually gas station owners can tell you. Ohio is one of 15 states that are not required to slap a sticker on the pumps saying the ethanol contentI thought they were! I know that many used to, I don't pay that much attention any more.Wasn't Shell one of the few that had no ethanol before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Isn't diesel still ethanol free. That and the energy content of diesel is huge. Not that that helps Rich at all. Just sayin. what is the stoich of diesel and what does that stand for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 readily available to the public?anywhere closer to Dublin? OSU Airport. aka Don Scott. Its what allot of people with old muscle cars run because of the high octane and that it still has lead in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 OSU Airport. aka Don Scott. Its what allot of people with old muscle cars run because of the high octane and that it still has lead in it.price?can I just show up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVDon Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) This thread makes my head hurt. I don't think E15 really makes that much of a difference. 1.) Ethanol isn't really that bad for modern fuel systems. The problem is that it's hydroscopic, so it attracts water to the fuel system, creating rust over time. If you have a modern fuel system then you really don't have to worry about the rust issue presenting itself there. I run E15 in Michigan 6 months out of the year and have seen zero difference in my polymer tank's characteristics. E15 is not going to hurt your engine. 2.) Yes, ethanol has a lower energy content, but it also has a larger octane rating. I'm unsure of how large it is when it's in E15 though. In E85, the octane rating is way higher so it's great for boosted applications and highly advanced timing. The one catch being that you need to put more fuel in like Brian stated so you're seeing a richer A/F. I'll be able to tell you how much my blown LS1 loves the corn juice soon hopefully. My fuel mileage drops around 1 mpg to 2 mpg when I run solely E15 for extended periods of time in both my bike and car. Everyone thinking that E15 is the devil, um ok... Edited June 22, 2010 by RSVDon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) Call them.You do realize that there is a difference between leaded and unleaded right? Better talk to someone knowledgable to see if running leaded in your bike is ok. Edited June 22, 2010 by flounder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I don't have a problem with the fuel but IMO the politics and reasoning behind pushing it in America are not the best. Having said that I'm not an expert and don't want to get in a pissing match about that. It's just my opinion based on what I know. My real problem with it is that it's causing issues with plastic fuel tanks on several ducati models. Specifically the sport classic and the monsters. I realize this is as much something ducati should have engineered for as it is a fault of ethanol it's self. Bottom line for me is it's annoying. at least ducati is willing to replace my gas tank. This is a relevant thread to my problem. http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Isn't diesel still ethanol free. That and the energy content of diesel is huge. Not that that helps Rich at all. Just sayin. what is the stoich of diesel and what does that stand for.Diesel is a totally different monster!Stoich is short stoichiometric. 100% gasoline takes 14.7 parts of air to one part of gasoline to burn the most efficiently. (Or is it most completely? I forget all the ins and outs of it all.) This is not ideal for all (not many) driving conditions, but typically what you will see in a steady state cruise, at least on a modern (fuel injected) car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Oh, so it's not a measure of energy in the fuel but a measure of how much energy the fuel takes from the air. Either way probably producing more energy as an end result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I don't have a problem with the fuel but IMO the politics and reasoning behind pushing it in America are not the best. Having said that I'm not an expert and don't want to get in a pissing match about that. It's just my opinion based on what I know. Exactly. Well stated. Quit messing with our food supply. But, for once, I'll try to keep this on topic (a rarity around here! )My real problem with it is that it's causing issues with plastic fuel tanks on several ducati models. Specifically the sport classic and the monsters. I realize this is as much something ducati should have engineered for as it is a fault of ethanol it's self. Bottom line for me is it's annoying. at least ducati is willing to replace my gas tank. This is a relevant thread to my problem. http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.0It's awesome that Ducati is stepping up to the plate on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Oh, so it's not a measure of energy in the fuel but a measure of how much energy the fuel takes from the air. Either way probably producing more energy as an end result.Actually, it's a ratio of how much fuel is needed for a complete burn in the engine. If ethanol takes less air per part of fuel (9.62 I think is what Brian posted?) than gasoline (14.7 for no ethanol content) you are using more fuel to fill the same volume. Say you have a cylinder that holds 15 liters (big engine!) fill it with 14.7 liters of air and one liter fuel. It is full. Fill it with 9.62 liters of ehtanol and one of fuel. Not full. You need to add both to keep the ratio correct, therefore, you use more fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 It's awesome that Ducati is stepping up to the plate on this one!It's one of those things that makes me wonder what other applications are getting messed up by the different properties of this fuel. I have heard particularly that older cars, classics, and such have some real issues with the ethanol content as well. I suppose it's just a pain of the game but what is really annoying is that you can't find a place to buy the pure stuff if you need to. At the very least inform the customers what they are buying so they can decide if they want to support it or not or even if they want to prevent some defect the ethanol is causing. I'm not going to get on a soap box and say to stop making it, I'm just saying make the information available so consumers can make a choice. I have been putting off replacing my tank because I'm certain it'll just happen again unless I pony up and find a metal gas tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw151 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Actually, it's a ratio of how much fuel is needed for a complete burn in the engine. If ethanol takes less air per part of fuel (9.62 I think is what Brian posted?) than gasoline (14.7 for no ethanol content) you are using more fuel to fill the same volume. Say you have a cylinder that holds 15 liters (big engine!) fill it with 14.7 liters of air and one liter fuel. It is full. Fill it with 9.62 liters of ehtanol and one of fuel. Not full. You need to add both to keep the ratio correct, therefore, you use more fuel.Right so if your ratio contains more air then you are taking more energy from the air (essentially free fuel via oxygen) and vise versa. Is that logic incorrect. I follow what you mean about the ratio and amount of fuel required based on the air fuel ratio BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 It's one of those things that makes me wonder what other applications are getting messed up by the different properties of this fuel. I have heard particularly that older cars, classics, and such have some real issues with the ethanol content as well. I suppose it's just a pain of the game but what is really annoying is that you can't find a place to buy the pure stuff if you need to. At the very least inform the customers what they are buying so they can decide if they want to support it or not or even if they want to prevent some defect the ethanol is causing. I'm not going to get on a soap box and say to stop making it, I'm just saying make the information available so consumers can make a choice. I have been putting off replacing my tank because I'm certain it'll just happen again unless I pony up and find a metal gas tank.Unless the new tanks are lined with a different polymer that is tolerant of the ethanol content? Many of the cars and truck that are certified to run E85 have plastic tanks, so I'm sure it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Right so if your ratio contains more air then you are taking more energy from the air (essentially free fuel via oxygen) and vise versa. Is that logic incorrect. I follow what you mean about the ratio and amount of fuel required based on the air fuel ratio BTW.Another way to look at it, it takes more oxygen to burn 100% gasoline, which is better for efficiency. Any deeper on the subject and I will be over my head! It does sound like you have a good idea of what's going on, just from a different viewpoint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 You can't run 100LL in a modern car or bike that has a catalytic converter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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