I hate the union mentality...

[Restlesswildman]

Nope not jealous dude. I can look in the mirror and know I am providing for my family and not stealing or screwing someone over!

I have had 5 union jobs offered to me, I have turned them all down! The biggest reason is that I make around 29 an hr, 40 hr week, no need for benefits since the wife has great ones at work. But the biggest one is, I don't have to worry about the BS in the union hall!

Like I say to a coworker...DON'T hate the player hate the game! I hate the union game! I wouldn't mind some of the benefits, but I don't have to play the game!

The first sour union experience that I can remember was a good buddy of mine got a job at a pillow factory moving pillows from the sewing area to the packaging dept. A few fell out and hit the floor around a sanitation engineer(janitor, but can't call him that due to contract!) My buddy picks them up and goes on his way. He gets pulled into the office and reprimanded! The sanitation engineer filed a grievance! Since he was on probation, he got treated like shit even with the union rep there!

It really is great that your a good union solider and support the cause! Lets just hope that the union stands by you if or when the economy tanks the rest of the way and UE goes up to 15% or higher!

Edited August 15, 2010 by Restlesswildman

[drew95gt]

The problem I have is with the companies...not the unions per se. Granted there is some corruption in a minority of the unions, but overall I do believe that they are looking out for the American worker in the end. One poster on here replied about working for Honda, so I will use them as an example. I do not agree what they are doing with their employees at all. First, they closed the motorcycle plant here in Marysville moving the production back to Japan costing many local jobs. Second, they are "buying out" a lot of their full time employees that are close to retirement and eliminating some employees when they can justify even the slightest reason whether it is legit or not. These open positions are no longer being filled by "career employees" but by temp workers making far less money with shit for benefits compared to the people that filled the jobs before. Also, I don't want to sound like I am just picking on Honda because one of the companies that I work for has started doing the same thing with several of the "blue collar" departments. I put some of the blame on the temp workers as well for being willing to do this type of work and not demanding compensation and benefits they deserve. It is such crap, this country was built by hard working blue collar workers who were able to provide a decent living for their families by working hard and being rewarded accordingly. Companies CAN NOT expect to pay their employees shit wages and benefits while the cost of living has increased so dramatically. The middle class in this country is getting smaller and smaller while jobs in every sector are being outsourced to foreign countries with shady labor practices meanwhile "we" keep electing these asshole politicians and supporting the big businesses that are selling us out left and right. This country needs to provide more incentives to keep businesses here, raise or impose new import taxes on goods that compete directly with goods produced in this country, and get rid of NAFTA for starters. We need Unions now just as much as ever, just minus the greed and corruption.

Edited August 15, 2010 by drew95gt

[Sidewinder600]

At least Honda was giving people the option of getting bought out, and that's what it was - an option. They weren't forcing anybody to do it. Where I work they asked for volunteers to quit, with the threat that if not enough people did they'd just pull names from a hat and lay random people off. No incentives, no separation pay, nothing. And IIRC, it was a pretty sweet buyout too. I remember a bunch of us talking at work that, if we were offered something similar, we'd probably take it. IMHO Honda's doing it about the best way they can in a non-union environment.

Hell, that's how they were doing it when I was in the military a few years back - they were overstocked with civil engineers, so they essentially offered buyouts. A full year's pay and any time obligations forgiven if you agree to quit. One of my buddies was in school getting a PhD paid for by the AF, then got to quit a month after he graduated with a year's paycheck (about $60K for a capt.) and essentially a free PhD.

Lest we forget what happened with Chrysler. They tried to negotiate pay/benefit cuts just like everybody else in the industry was taking (Honda included!), the unions refused, so they had to declare bankruptcy. Then they got free reign to unload as much union labor as they wanted and renegotiate terms that were worse than what was initially offered. THAT'S the union mentality that has to go - they'd rather bankrupt the company that employs them than concede anything at all, regardless of the reality that people have stopped buying their products.

[TopLeft]

The motorcycle plant was out of date (having been the first Honda plant opened in the US in 1979 I believe), and was not able to fluidly change production models as needed for the global company. A much larger facility is needed with a better environmental footprint that we didn't have space for on that campus. Thus the Kumamoto plant was built and injected more workers into the company which actually increased our adaptability which trickleded down to an increase in profits for us. Zero Honda jobs were lost. The 450+ associates were brought over to the auto plant in a seamless fashion. What became of the motorcycle plant? An increase in "local" jobs was the effect as the old plant is now an on-site dirstribution center for some of our bulk parts to further minimize down-time, net change: increase in employed. Cite your source for job loss!

With regards to the "buy out", it was a very long process that produced a VERY lucrative offer to ALL associates. No matter if you had 30 years or 3 years with the company, everbody was eligible. It was enough of a temptation that we were notified that the company could stop the program with little/no notice if it's impact was negative to the company. Again, not a single associate was forced into anything.

The American/Japanese business model is unique. Temps are employed since we run with a "skeleton" body of associates. These valuable associates allow the company to meet market needs based upon sales. Their wages are very similar to ours and they're extended the same mandatory "respect and courtesousness" as given to all in our plants, wether a permanent associate, temporary, on-site supplier, contruction crew for innovation projects etc.

[jporter12]

Lest we forget what happened with Chrysler. They tried to negotiate pay/benefit cuts just like everybody else in the industry was taking (Honda included!), the unions refused, so they had to declare bankruptcy. Then they got free reign to unload as much union labor as they wanted and renegotiate terms that were worse than what was initially offered. THAT'S the union mentality that has to go - they'd rather bankrupt the company that employs them than concede anything at all, regardless of the reality that people have stopped buying their products.

As long as the company is being honest about it, no problem. The compsny that I worked for was painting a bleek picture LONG before things were REALLY getting bad. I got a pretty decent severance package, and went on my way. No choice, they were just being nice, and trying to make it look like things were worse than they were. A couple years later, the leach that weazeled his way into ownership DID bankrupt the company, all production has moved out of the country, and ownership and the name has changed a couple more times. All this from what used to be one of the best companies to work for in the area, that had been around since the early 1900's.

They were blaming everything on competition. They had bought up all of the failing domestic competition, and were dealing with the cheap international cometition. While this was a very valid issue, it was not the REAL problem for the company, which was poor management.

There was an attempt at organization while I was there, but it never even got to the vote.

Just a note about the workers there, most of us were so loyal, and had built such relationships that many who are no longer there (and some that are with the new ownership) keep in touch on Facebook, and have a fairly large get together every year. Many people would rather not even be associated with a company that did them wrong, but they even had one of the former owners there, and he was well accepted!

[jporter12]

The motorcycle plant was out of date (having been the first Honda plant opened in the US in 1979 I believe), and was not able to fluidly change production models as needed for the global company. A much larger facility is needed with a better environmental footprint that we didn't have space for on that campus. Thus the Kumamoto plant was built and injected more workers into the company which actually increased our adaptability which trickleded down to an increase in profits for us. Zero Honda jobs were lost. The 450+ associates were brought over to the auto plant in a seamless fashion. What became of the motorcycle plant? An increase in "local" jobs was the effect as the old plant is now an on-site dirstribution center for some of our bulk parts to further minimize down-time, net change: increase in employed. Cite your source for job loss!

With regards to the "buy out", it was a very long process that produced a VERY lucrative offer to ALL associates. No matter if you had 30 years or 3 years with the company, everbody was eligible. It was enough of a temptation that we were notified that the company could stop the program with little/no notice if it's impact was negative to the company. Again, not a single associate was forced into anything.

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that info!

The American/Japanese business model is unique. Temps are employed since we run with a "skeleton" body of associates. These valuable associates allow the company to meet market needs based upon sales. Their wages are very similar to ours and they're extended the same mandatory "respect and courtesousness" as given to all in our plants, wether a permanent associate, temporary, on-site supplier, contruction crew for innovation projects etc.

The temp employee issue was a factor in the people I worked with wanting organization. Not all companies pay their temps well. There were other factors, but I have to go for now. I may discuss later.

[TopLeft]

JPorter, was that the glass company?

[C-bus]

The motorcycle plant was out of date (having been the first Honda plant opened in the US in 1979 I believe), and was not able to fluidly change production models as needed for the global company. A much larger facility is needed with a better environmental footprint that we didn't have space for on that campus. Thus the Kumamoto plant was built and injected more workers into the company which actually increased our adaptability which trickleded down to an increase in profits for us. Zero Honda jobs were lost. The 450+ associates were brought over to the auto plant in a seamless fashion. What became of the motorcycle plant? An increase in "local" jobs was the effect as the old plant is now an on-site dirstribution center for some of our bulk parts to further minimize down-time, net change: increase in employed. Cite your source for job loss!

With regards to the "buy out", it was a very long process that produced a VERY lucrative offer to ALL associates. No matter if you had 30 years or 3 years with the company, everbody was eligible. It was enough of a temptation that we were notified that the company could stop the program with little/no notice if it's impact was negative to the company. Again, not a single associate was forced into anything.

The American/Japanese business model is unique. Temps are employed since we run with a "skeleton" body of associates. These valuable associates allow the company to meet market needs based upon sales. Their wages are very similar to ours and they're extended the same mandatory "respect and courtesousness" as given to all in our plants, wether a permanent associate, temporary, on-site supplier, contruction crew for innovation projects etc.

Thank you. Wow! An employee who believes in his company. I'm waiting for a UAW guy to defend GM. The union fosters the "us against them " mentality as part of their organizing philosophy.

[RSVDon]

Thank you. Wow! An employee who believes in his company. I'm waiting for a UAW guy to defend GM. The union fosters the "us against them " mentality as part of their organizing philosophy.

That's not "believing" in a company. That's just knowing the facts.

[that dude]

all union workers are overpaid lazy fat fucks

[SAMBUSA]

all union workers are overpaid lazy fat fucks

qft

[drew95gt]

So you are saying there were no job losses at all as a result of the motorcycle plant closing? Also, the Scioto temps make just as much with similar offered benefits as the employees of Honda...I find that hard to believe. I'm not knocking Honda though, I did hear from my friends that work there that the buyout was a pretty good deal.

Edited August 16, 2010 by drew95gt

[jporter12]

JPorter, was that the glass company?

Nope. Water coolers.

Thank you. Wow! An employee who believes in his company. I'm waiting for a UAW guy to defend GM. The union fosters the "us against them " mentality as part of their organizing philosophy.

The bold part is exactly what I saw when the union was trying to get in where I was.

That's not "believing" in a company. That's just knowing the facts.

Really?

all union workers are overpaid lazy fat fucks

As TD looks in the extra-wide mirror...

Not all, and not even close to the majority, but enough of them that there is a problem.

[SAMBUSA]

Proud Union member as well as a fat ass, right here:lol:

Overpaid? Nah, I could always use more money

[that dude]

Every year We get a raise. Can't say the same about the non union sector

[SAMBUSA]

Wether you deserve it or not

[that dude]

Yup.... But if your not working it doesn't matter:cool:

[SAMBUSA]

Some of us get paid regardless if we work or not

[that dude]

1000 a week to play hide n seek

[TopLeft]

So you are saying there were no job losses at all as a result of the motorcycle plant closing? Also, the Scioto temps make just as much with similar offered benefits as the employees of Honda...I find that hard to believe. I'm not knocking Honda though, I did hear from my friends that work there that the buyout was a pretty good deal.

No losses for Honda associates. If you read my statement, the temps that work production have pay in line with perm. Scioto is not going to be paid the same, of course! Come on, you are talking about 2 different work theaters!

[John]

The UAW is by far the worst group of union asshats I've ever seen. They have directly contributed to the economical problems in our country

they are a drop in the bucket compared to what goldman sachs has contributed.

[dorifto240]

they are a drop in the bucket compared to what goldman sachs has contributed.

Both were involved in the events that led up to the recession. Both are bad and corrupt and greedy. Both need to change.

I don't see what you're getting at?

[that dude]

^^^^^unions are not even close to blame for Americas problem

[SAMBUSA]

Unions aren't, union members are

[that dude]

Another day of doing shit and getting paid