grant8605 Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 So, I'm going to Mid-O 9/6, and was wondering if any of you more experienced, A group riders want to give me a little advice/stuff to work on, on Monday. I think my lines in the keyhole and carousel (among other places) could use some work. I usually hook up with an instructor, but the more advice the better. Here's where you can see me do it all wrong:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdyrY8mS30http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auTTv7HOycEIf anyone decides to reply, thanks in advance. If not, hope you enjoyed the vids anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummingbird Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 you're definitely fast, but seeing you have a harley with twice the engine size, I would use that instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Do you run the intermediate class? I think you were in I last time I was there unless there was someone else on the same color SV.. I wish I could have remembered what leathers they had on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud and Low Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Cool Vids. I would love to see myself like that, that's a great tool. On the 2nd video, I think it is turn 6 and 7, (the offcamber rising and falling left hand, and the immediate right hand, before the bridge), I hold that a lot closer to the inside, seems you got a little outside there. If you hold 6 tight, it it seems faster and my grip feels more solid to me and then an easier set up for number7, which I pull in close to the curb about halfway through and that sets up a straighter shot under the bridge. If anyone has a different idea there, I'd like to hear it.I find the hardest turn on the track, for me, is the small lefthander after thunder valley before the carousel. I think I have my line right, but I fail to carry the speed through there that I should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 I find the hardest turn on the track, for me, is the small lefthander after thunder valley before the carousel.Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedogg624 Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 carousel - double apex turn, first apex is in the grass, just as the curbing starts, and then second apex is right around teh bump area, hold it tight longer through the carousel and square off teh last left turn more onto the front straight for a better drive. front straight - move your braking marker way more forwardturn one and chicane - all look good, just carry more speedkeyhole - not sure if you went wide because of the guy in front but thats also a double apex, hit that first apex and then let it swing out (avoid the bump on the inside line) get on the gas and bring it back in to hit your second apex on corner exit just like you didbackstraight - hit that apex at the kink where the cones are. the esses - this is more preference really, all the ama guys are staying to the left of the center sealer line and holding it tight around turn 7. all in all, you look really good just carry more speed through the turns. if youre holding consistent lines which you seem to be doing based on the vids, get with a coach to see about bumping up to A class. i wouldn't mind having you on the same track as myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Well, take it for what it is worth, but here is what I think and suggest... It's going to counter a few things the others were saying, but I think I might be able to suggest some things to make it not only more efficient for you, but faster, as well...Turn 1 is fine. Don't worry about brake markers as a LOT of people brake too early, but the drive out is the key. Honestly, there's a few line choices here and all can be effective. It's minimal gains or losses here...Turn two - segment starting the series of turns into the Keyhole. That first right hander and then the transition to the two lefts. It should be a connect the dots. Do not swing out wide right before transitioning to the left. Essentially, connect the curbing and make it as straight as you can. A LOT of speed and scrub slightly going in as you will be mostly straight. The two lefts need to be tight and treated as a single apex.The entrance to the Keyhole. The top vid with the R6 showed the proper line entering that right hander. Almost act like you are defending that line. Stay tight right and then go out deep at the top of the keyhole. It allows you to drive harder out and sooner than if you started out wide left. The bottom video actually looked better and maybe you were a bit nervous with the R6 guy in front and planning a pass... Dunno, but his entrance to that turn was better...Turn 7 off the back straight. Again, braking too early, but it is something that will be a work in progress always. Don't let people tell you that braking makes it all up. It does when at the top level, but if you cannot string together turns well, it is all for nothing...That right hander is not the big deal. It is the time between 7 and 8 (left hander off camber turn). You are taking the line that a LOT of riders take and it is not only inefficient, it also is killing time and opens you up to losing a spot and therefore, losing more time and wasting more energy. Connect the apex of 7's right hander with the visual apex or curbing of turn 8. Almost a straight line if you will...You are then tight into 8 and the line you have down the hill and out of 8 is good. DON'T stay tight out of 8. Losing time, too much energy and not enough drive out. Your line looks good from what I can see. Essentially, drive right of the center line of sealer, down the hill cross back to the left of the sealer and set up for 9. Pretty much what I saw you do.Under the bridge. I won't give any secrets here, but it was ok. Driving up the hill and setting up that next set of rights is a big time killer or a time helper. It is minimal and easily gained elsewhere, but a lot of guys have it right and a lot have it wrong... You looked fine through there. Good job.Carousel. Here's where there are two schools of thought. I TRY and TRY to get people to stay tight wide out of 14 (left hander off Thunder Valley) and hug the INSIDE line entering the carousel. You then dive deep and apex out at a peak instead of a continuous radius. That allows a more efficient drive out and in that small straight before you transition left onto the front straight. Here's a pic where I am vs. the others...Uploaded with ImageShack.usThe red bike is closer than what is typical. Gene (far right in the pic) is passing on the outside which is fine, but he later was running a similar line as I typically do. I usually drag my knee in the grass (have to pull the puck after each day to clean the grass out) and stay tight. With Gene catching me and me having to defend, this was a great line... But, when running hard laps, it is the best for entrance and drive out. It's a bit of a secrete view of where you should be, but if you watch any AMA races, that's where they run...Overall, really pretty good. Just a few line choices and working on braking and I think you are set. What are your lap times? I'd suggest that they are good enough for Advanced as your line choices and smoothness appears pretty good. I would love to see a lot more riders be as accurate and predictable as you are in these vids...But, of course, vids aren't the tool to judge by. You'd need a staff guy to follow and make that decision... I just ride so, my thoughts are simply an opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedogg624 Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 I just ride so, my thoughts are simply an opinion...lolz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 just out of curiosity, anyone know of a range of lap times for A group?or if you're riding A group at midohio, you could just post your laptimes and give your impression (like, you are passing, getting passed, mid pack, etc. anecdotal, but could be useful)brian, please don't make the rest of us feel bad by posting yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 just out of curiosity, anyone know of a range of lap times for A group?I got to :41's and would have been a cone in "A" group.I think you need to be in the high :30's to not be in the way. :35's are a good goal, and :29's are AMA times (on a 600). I think Herrin's qualifying lap was in the :27's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant8605 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. To answer your questions:Do you run the intermediate class? ...... I do run in I. My last day out was 8/10.What are your lap times? ...... Honestly, I dunno. I don't have a lap timer. Well, I've got plenty to work on. Thanks for the detailed advice (it's much better than "go faster"). Edited September 2, 2010 by grant8605 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 I got to :41's and would have been a cone in "A" group.I think you need to be in the high :30's to not be in the way. :35's are a good goal, and :29's are AMA times (on a 600). I think Herrin's qualifying lap was in the :27'sTrack day times are going to be :33s and slower. Id say :40 is good as long as you are smooth and consistent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Oh, and typical is more like :37s and slower... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedogg624 Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 it also depends how predictable you are and if you can hold consistent lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubguy85 Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. To answer your questions:Do you run the intermediate class? ...... I do run in I. My last day out was 8/10.What are your lap times? ...... Honestly, I dunno. I don't have a lap timer. Well, I've got plenty to work on. Thanks for the detailed advice (it's much better than "go faster").I think you flew by me at the end of the backstraight when I was braking into that right hander you broke WAAAAAAAY later than me.. Pretty sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 grant, do you have any more video from the 8/10 day? were you there on 8/11?if you were running I group, we were probably on track together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant8605 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 grant, do you have any more video from the 8/10 day? were you there on 8/11?if you were running I group, we were probably on track together.I was not there 8/11, but I have all sorts of video from 8/10. Probably over an hour's worth, including video of me going straight through the carousel, rather than turning right. That wasn't too fun. If you let me know what bike/leathers/helmet color you have, I will look for you in the footage I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 i looked like a panda riding a bumblebee looking POS 600rror like this:or this:http://redx.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/PTR-811-HIGH-RESi think i'm the first pic on that link.you might be on that site somewhere in the 8/10 PTR folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant8605 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 i looked like a panda riding a bumblebee looking POS 600rr LMAO, that's some funny shit. Sorry though jbot, no dice. I didn't see you anywhere. I guess that means you were faster than me and I didn't catch up to you at any point? If you're gonna be out on the 6th, maybe You'll show up on cam then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant8605 Posted September 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Well, I don't know if anyone is even going to respond to this old thread, but here goes anyway..........................This is video from Monday. I feel like I made some improvements, thanks in large part to everyone's input, especially STT-Brian. Thanks for the advice especially on turn 1 natedogg, it really helped. I am still not too sure about my line in 2 and 3 though. Any opinions on my line on the back straight? I like to leave plenty of room for people to pass on either side, on account of my uber-slow top end, but don't want to take a "weird" unpredictable line. Anything else? I know I could be faster. At the end of the day, I'm trying to get a feel for whether I need to be in A group or not. I don't want to hold anyone up, but, this past Monday, I group was not a ton of fun for me. It wasn't bad (I WAS riding at Mid Ohio after all), but I got held up more than not. One session I ran down hot pit 3 times, 'cause I kept catching back up to the traffic. It did seem exceptionally busy that day though. Hope someone sees this, and if so, thanks as always.................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr2W1G1atW0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Hey man, I think you are fine. I'm not a staff guy, but from what I saw, you were holding your own out there and doing well. Again, the lap times might need to be a bit faster, but take into a few considerations...1) Stock forks and you are WELL outside the limits of those things. The pace was smooth and predictable and easily able to be passed by faster riders. There were PLENTY of guys in "A" that had no business being out there and it had less to do with lap times as it did with the way they rode...2) Your line choices and how you rode made it easy to predict what you were about to do. The two editor riders were WAY sketchy and should have been in middle pack "I" group. There was no way to know what they were about to do and even had one guy on the RSV4 sitting up looking back and waiting for his buddy on the hot line in Thunder Valley. Three abreast and he's sitting up putting at maybe 60 mph... You were nowhere near that in any way...I think you need to stick with "A" and work more. Come see me next time and we can walk through lines. I was working with a guy I know that day and I had him running faster than he's ever been, but in complete control with no extra effort. It's such a line choice that will make the difference at that track.As for turn 1, stick a little closer to the curbing. Stay in tight and exit wider, but leave room outside for passing. You are more mid track in the video and I suggest tightening that up a bit. Turn 2-3 is also a spot to keep a little tighter. The entrance and the line through the Keyhole is really good. Totally better than the last video. You can hear you exiting on the gas sooner than before...Off the back straight - connect the curbs from 7 to 8. Don't swing out to the right so much. A lot of wasted real estate being used there. Also, stay tight initially and exit out wider out of 8.Again, it is a line issue around the track. You are looking really good and the overall thing is smooth and consistent. That is something that should be evaluated above most things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant8605 Posted September 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Hey Brian, thanks for responding again!"1) Stock forks and you are WELL outside the limits of those things."You were absolutely right. The zip tie was, as you said, CRUSHED. I'm using every bit of my fork travel on the brakes. An even better excuse to get some new goodies over the winter. "As for turn 1, stick a little closer to the curbing. Stay in tight and exit wider, but leave room outside for passing. You are more mid track in the video and I suggest tightening that up a bit." Gotcha."Turn 2-3 is also a spot to keep a little tighter." It's my tires, they're holding me back. Just kidding. On the straight between 1 and 2, should I maybe setup a little farther to the right on the track, and "thread the needle" through 2 and 3?"You can hear you exiting on the gas sooner than before..."ABSOLUTELY! I don't know if you noticed or not, but compared to my last videos, that line choice through the keyhole translated to an extra 5 MPH at the end of the straight, which for my little SV, is huge! "Off the back straight - connect the curbs from 7 to 8. Don't swing out to the right so much. A lot of wasted real estate being used there. Also, stay tight initially and exit out wider out of 8." Damn. I mean, damn. I thought I had that ironed out. I guess relatively speaking, I was tighter than my last videos, but I s'pose it's not hard to improve on crap. Tightening that up, I think, will require a little more testicular fortitude on my part, but I trust your advice. In my head, it kinda feels like aiming for the grass. Is that the way it feels to you, or am I not looking at this the right way?Really though, thanks again Brian. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice. You posses a level of input unavailable elsewhere. Take care, I hope to see you out there the 27th or 28th (assuming you'll be attending), if I can figure something out with work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 just out of curiosity, anyone know of a range of lap times for A group?or if you're riding A group at midohio, you could just post your laptimes and give your impression (like, you are passing, getting passed, mid pack, etc. anecdotal, but could be useful)brian, please don't make the rest of us feel bad by posting yours.slower riders go around 1:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 yeah you suck bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedogg624 Posted September 10, 2010 Report Share Posted September 10, 2010 good input. you're doing good dude, especially for an sv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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